The purpose of this thread is to post experiences, ratings, rantings and questions on any and all aspects of VIP Sports.
SBR rating = A+
SBR rating = A+
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I haven't used VIP per se in years. They are the flagship book of the group now called Leisure and Gaming plc from which I tried several books years ago. All the books have identical software and selection although not necessarily clone lines. Books I tried were BetOnGames, BetGameday, FairdealSports and VIP.
Long story short, they finally said I needed to just pick one and stick with that - so, for whatever reason, I picked BetOnGames.
I am tempted to just talk about BetOnGames and assume it all applies to VIP. The books used to be almost identical. But I'll not do that just in case there has been some divergence I am not aware of.
I do keep an eye on things and can say a few things about VIP. They are about as reliable as it gets for payouts. They are an honorable bookmaking operation.
They have a pretty standard set of North American betting options. Some props but nothing extreme. Dime lines on MLB sides, otherwise full juice.
They would be classified as a recreational book. Limits on the low side.
They offer some bonuses. 20% cash sign-up (max of $200), 6x rollover. I see no mention of a reload bonus on the website.
I do not like the software and the layout. I've heard there are changes coming in this regard.
I would appreciate comments from current VIP users.Comment -
A+....you have to be kidding me? We all know why it's an A+ but that's besides the point.
What exactly makes this an A+ I am not really sure....same with WWTS.
Let's take a look:
The software sucks to begin with...
it's not a reduced juice book so that should automatically disqualify it from being an A+ book....
Lines are basically vanilla, nothing special that is....
limits to professional players....
slow payouts at times for such a high ranking...
difficult to log in on busy days such as a saturday....
They do not have totals on every college game....
constant rumors of casino fraud....
They spam you a lot, espeically with direct mail...
bonuses are limited to individuals living in certain states...
Customer Service is not always available...
Give me a break an A+....what a sick joke that is. This is a B book at best. You have to be kidding me to suggest that this book and Pinnacle are at the same level. A+ should be reserved for the elite books not the highest bidders. Way too much variance in these A+ rankings....I am sorry but anyone with any balls would say the same thing as me.Comment -
vip shut me down but not for anything shady i did rather they said that because their a publicly traded co. and the fact that they have to answer to shareholders it wouldnt be prudent for them to keep me as a client so we parted (not a unilateral decision) our seperate ways.Mudcat your obviously smart money so how have you lasted this long with them?Comment -
Limits to professional players???
Is that what you call $50 limits. You might as well say they kick people out for winning.
They have decent lines but if you bet them they kick you out.Comment -
One of those many books where if they ceased to exist it wouldnt make any difference.
The Coventry City of sportsbooks.Comment -
I agree with many points of BB. But I think we all here at forum are pros or kvazipros and that is our approach. But recreational bettors really need something else.
I am seriously TIRED of persuading my friends and other sqares: "Do not bet at Betandwin and Sportingbet - you lose Money, you get payouts in weeks etc...". But they are betting there time after time. They really need something else than we. If they look at Pinnacle they say: "WTF is that? Some stock market?"(Yes it is
)"I am not going to do some bussiness! I am goig to amuse!"
They want to spend money for some ilusion with the crap (chicks, comments, articles about Beckham and his wife...), they rather pay full juice and get back 1/10 of the added juice in bonuses. And for that they like to pay - they will not be frustrated if they sometimes lose a value of dinner.
So what are the really good recrebookies for them? With A? Bodog - for sure, Betjam (but their line changes are frustrating for everyone), and maybe Bowmans. I think VIPgroup should be there also. (Bet3.65 not - they limit everyone who wins much, much sooner than any other bookie)
I did not have problem with their payouts. I did not have problems with their CS. I did not have problem with login.
The only big problem I see is "The software sucks to begin with..."Comment -
Its hard enough to overcome the juice but how do you overcome the losers only policy VIP employs?
If you are a newbie, clueless, bet $10 parlays with no expectations of winning, VIP may be the place to flush your money down the drain into their waiting hands.Comment -
You are right. But I have seen account limited there after really huge steam run. Not after 2 bets for the max like Bet365.Originally posted by Chuck Sims
Thanks their very uncommon 120 sec delay they attract steam like nuclear power plant and must lose. They probably see that this 120 sec delay is a huge plus for mild recreational bettor (btw with avg bet 55USD for NFL I have seen), but they must separate the rest if they want survive.
It is only one real difference between pro and recre bookies: limiting and not limiting. I am afraid the first group: Pinny, Greek, Cris + exchanges; second the rest.
So I have heard about limit at VIP after quite long time and quite huge wins (5fig) and that wins always broke the closing odds (definition of smart play) - nothing strange for recre book.
I believe that bettor that wins this thanks luck, betting huge amounts on winning favorites, is welcome there.
But maybe I am wrong, maybe you have seen some strange cases. I am writing here my experience which is: overall VIP is an A book for recreatioal player (maybe not A+, but A or A-)
PS. I personally do not count the juice for rating. I do not know why I should. That is not mark of reliability (but of course it is very important for me). Btw they offered -105 on 1 NBA game thru March/April.Last edited by Lucas; 06-12-06, 10:38 AM.Comment -
Horrible wager menu, no option to only have the *full* game lines displayed. Halftime, quarters, 5innings - all in the mix.
Makes for an aweful overview of available games/lines.
Good on payouts, safety and customer service.
The lines and wagering options are OK, but as mentioned the display sucks big time.
Found some decent NBA lines there. Didnt try them for MLB.
All in all they are a decent and very safe book for newbies and small players, 20% first deposit bonus 3x roll max 200 is good for the majority of peeps.
As a professional you wont use them long, its not as bad as 3.65 but they are 100% geared to the "recreational" players.
Reload bonuses for losers only too.Comment -
oops its 6x roll now for the first deposit bonus lol...used to be 3.
Screw that too, downgraded to B- :-PComment -
Best General Manager in the business, Alistair Assheton, and one of the original online books. They are down the street from Pinnacle in Curacao. Both have out grown their peers by offering a better product. There was no such thing as good customer service before VIP, you couldnt even see lines until you joined. VIP has always had texcellent customer feedback into SBR and still gets more signups from SBR visitors than Pinnacle.Comment -
I'm not exactly sure. There is something about my methods that doesn't get me restricted as much as other players. I have only been restricted at 3 books - which are all notorious for resticting just about anyone - and BetOnGames isn't one of them.Originally posted by rara51
(Bet365, BCN and US Sportsbook are the 3 if anyone is wondering. I may be forgetting someone though. It even took a couple years for Bet365 to restrict me so I must be doing something that keeps me under the radar. This might even be a good seperate topic.)
But BOG (VIP) has only ever increased my limits.
I know I am losing there lifetime (because they keep giving me bonuses). If you use a lot of books, you're bound to be losing at a few even if you're up overall. One of mine happens to be this book and maybe the reason they don't restrict me is as simple as that.Comment -
Yeah okay, b/c they have a nice general manager we should you should give them an A+....give me a break. We all know why they are getting an A+ and don't pretend there is anything other than that reason. Just like the politician that insists that the "free tickets" they were given by a lobbyist or that nice donation to their reelection campaign bid had no influence on their vote.....this is no different. When you take money from advertisors for your site and then you are suppose to rate them.....good luck in coming out with an honest assessment....as far as I know, nobody throughtout the history of time has not succumb to the influence of money.Originally posted by SBR_John
VIP is a nice book for sure....and it is safe which is equally important. It's got a lot of nice features but to say that it is an A+ book is a disservice to those who come here looking for honest information.
Bascially by giving it an A+ you are telling us that there is no difference between VIP and Pinnacle.
Are you saying VIP and Pinnacle are at the same level John?Comment -
I think here is the answer:Originally posted by BuddyBear
down the street... so they are at lower levelOriginally posted by SBR_John
Therefore they should be immediately downgraded! The only excuse for not downgrading is to post here some photos of Alistair Assheton - naked.Comment -
I don't think we really want to see Alistair naked, Lucas...Originally posted by LucasI think here is the answer:
down the street... so they are at lower level
Therefore they should be immediately downgraded! The only excuse for not downgrading is to post here some photos of Alistair Assheton - naked.Last edited by isetcap; 06-12-06, 02:04 PM.Comment -
I'm not so sure this is a sick joke but on all other points I will agree with Buddy Bear. The A+ is a bit of a headscratcher.Originally posted by BuddyBearComment -
I think BuddyBear has a nice point.No way VIP equal with Pinny.Comment -
Alistar is not a female name? In that case.. rather not.Originally posted by isetcapComment -
Originally posted by LucasComment -
I had read only the second part! "I and my wife"... funny. Yeah I know: I mixed up an interwiew with this poor man that should be naked with some lady from Matchbook in my head.Originally posted by isetcapComment -
Why do so many conversations around here boil down to someone getting naked?Comment -
You know damn well that if Alistair gets naked, their ratings are dropping.Originally posted by MudcatComment -
I wrote it because it is absurd. And absurd is also this discussion where on the one side are pros that would like to mine from the weak lines and on the other side is SBR represented by John, who confirms that VIP gives to SBR more money than Pinnacle.Originally posted by MudcatLast edited by Lucas; 06-12-06, 05:24 PM.Comment -
I see nobody wants to try to debunk the points I made in my post and tell me exactly what makes VIP an A+ book....
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You've already gotten your answer.Originally posted by BuddyBearI see nobody wants to try to debunk the points I made in my post and tell me exactly what makes VIP an A+ book....
VIP still gets more signups from SBR visitors than Pinnacle.Comment -
this is exactly what I'm talking about...we have bodog rated an A book and VIP an A+???...VIP's a full juice book with average CS...as mentioned before, their website layout sucks and they are scared to put their lines up early...I know that SBR has relationships with these books, but I think we need to really look at how we are coming up with these ratings...Comment -
I agree Bodog is better. But not because of the things you have mentioned!Originally posted by pags11
(i) Bodog is also full juice and for some events (esp. 5innings) has -115; VIP has -110
(ii) VIP puts their lines quite early. They are not fastest but this can not be compared with bodog!
Here are the approx times:
NBA/NCAA:
VIP (GMT 4:00 - Spread and totals), (GMT 16:00 - the rest)
Bodog (GMT 5:00 - only Spread), (GMT 18:00 - ML and totals), (GMT 22:00 - half times)
MLB (not weekends)
VIP (4:00 - ML and totals), (GMT 16:00-20:00 - the rest)
Bodog (GMT 5:00 - only ML), (GMT 19:00 - RL and totals), (GMT 22:30 - 5 innings)
But subjectively:
Bodog has better CS (they are more accurate, but I miss chat)
Bodog has great and simple bonus structure (new 6 times rollover @ VIP is bad news)
Bodog has very fast payouts
Bodog has much better software
Bodog probably does not limit under 500
x
VIP have no logout
VIP have no dual lines
VIP have higher limits
VIP have 120 sec confirmation delay
VIP allows payouts of winnings via all methods and they have more possibilities how to fund/withdraw
x
and something just for Mudcat:
the artificial breast of the girl at VIP is too big
but bodog with the guy on motorbike and Calvins face is also not exactly my styleComment -
Horrible post by pags once again...so VIP CS average?
Well i have different experiences, how shocking.
They are scared to put up lines early? Trust me, they are faster in doing this than Bodog.
But its no surprise that pags has the same agenda theories, after all he is Buddys huggybear
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Originally posted by Lucas
Thank you very much.
Anyway, I just hope no one is taking the dissatisfaction over the SBR rating to mean that VIP is bad. It's not. VIP is a nice safe book for recreational players. There are so many scams out there; VIP is among the good guys. It may not be ideal for my style of play - but the vast majority of players aren't crusty forum anglers like me.
If I was to hear that someone had posted up at VIP just because they saw me calling it one of the safest offshore books in the world, I would be very okay with that.Comment -
Originally posted by Mudcat
The question though Mudcat do the other factors that sportsbooks are evaluated on merit an A+ ranking for VIP? For example, how would you rank thier overnight lines, reduced juice, software, customer service, bonuses, selectivity of games, etc...,
I understand that safety may merit more weight than other dimensions on the evaluation but should we be so quick to dismiss other factors that contribute to an individual's gaming experience. Thanks....Comment -
VIP is a very deserving A+ book. Excellent CS and excellent perks for small players. This would be our top recommendation for small recreational players which make up about 90% of the player pool. BoDog puts up a good arguement for the best book for the small player and then Bet365 and on down the list.
VIP has by far the highest retention rate in the industry at 22 months.(almost double the average)
The software and the fact they collar grinders are the most common complaints. They have new software in beta testing so maybe they have finally improved.
Overall, VIP is top of the A+ books for the recreational player.Comment -
Books like VIP and Bodog won't get a whole lot of positive feedback from non-recreational bettors. It is easy to forget that most people who bet on sports are recreational. I would have absolutely no problem recommending a reliable book like VIP or Bodog to friends. Should they ever want to take a more serious approach, figuring out the benefits a low juice book would be only a very small part of the required research. (The point being that, without serious research, they have no shot at going pro anyway.)Comment -
Lucas,
I don't think bodog is deserving of an A rating or that VIP is deserving of an A+...that's what I was trying to say in the last post...I'm not understanding how a book like bodog (full juice, very late lines-I mean embarrasing late lines, they shade their lines badly (almost as badly as skybook) is deserving of an A rating...the last two reasons alone are enough to knock them into the A- category...
my personal experience with VIP customer service was less than satisfying...one can't argue about the crappy website layout either...or the late posted lines...possibly we should replace the word "recreational" with "square"...because these two books to me are books that are good, but not in the category of a pinnacle or even a cris or betjamaica...
I know that SBR is still fine-tuning it's rating system, but I scratch my head sometimes when books like matchbook and mansion are still in the B category and we have books like these rated A...all I'm saying is that for SBR to get the real respect it deserves around the net by professional players and cappers, it's got to really look at how it comes up with it's ratings...business relationships it has with certain books should not factor into a books rating...I am a big fan of SBR, a proponent of you guys all over the net, I just get frustrated when I know certain guys know better but ratings don't change...
Terris,
putting up lines faster than bodog isn't a hard thing to do there pal...I may have horrible posts, but you've shown to be a horrible poster in general...I only wish I had time to drink a beer or two, but I've been busting my ass all week running my business...sorry to dissapoint you...Comment -
Thanks for presenting your opinion and backing it up with solid reasons, pags. Your expertise is appreciated.Originally posted by pags11Comment
