Sports betting v. stock investing

[cleaveland]

When you consider that a professional sports franchise is a company then is there really a difference between buying or shorting stocks and betting on or fading professional sports teams? Either way you're betting on the success or failure of a business enterprise, the only difference is the time period imho. However, sports betting and day trading could be equivalent in terms of risk.

What do you think?

[mh217]

you have no idea what you are talking about..you dont lose 100% of your investment on a miracle half court shot in the market...are you seriously this dumb comparing the 2?

[floridagolfer]

mh217 is correct; there is no comparison whatsoever. Not even close.

[Sportsbetting123]

The biggest difference to me is that you cannot really dollar cost average in sports wagering. You can do that in the stock market and that increases your chances of making money significantly.

[cleaveland]

The biggest difference to me is that you cannot really dollar cost average in sports wagering. You can do that in the stock market and that increases your chances of making money significantly.

Never say can't, you can do it with in-game betting.

[cleaveland]

you have no idea what you are talking about..you dont lose 100% of your investment on a miracle half court shot in the market...are you seriously this dumb comparing the 2?

Really? I once lost about 3 times the balance in my account trading an IPO on margin. You can lose a lot more than 100% on all kinds of random stuff trading on margin. I don't know what I'm talking about, whatever.

[RubberKettle]

Sports franchises can be successful with out winning.

Look at the Pittsburgh Pirates, they don't win and still make profit.

[k13]

Buying futures is essentially sports investing as the value will go up and down depending on performance.

If you know how to hedge properly you are rarely risking 100% loss.

[mh217]

Really? I once lost about 3 times the balance in my account trading an IPO on margin. You can lose a lot more than 100% on all kinds of random stuff trading on margin. I don't know what I'm talking about, whatever.

not sure what kind of bankroll you are talking about but you're talking about a rare event, and thats not the way to day trade in the first place..thats pure speculation..i day trade and bet sports..thats what i do..and i can tell you that on a bad day day trading i can lose a good chunk, but on a bad day in sports gambling i can lose it all very, very, easily.

[redsoxfreak91]

Owners are investors, who invest in each separate entity (the players) to form a "portfolio" of players to compete against other owners "portfolios" If one owners "portfolio" is better than the others than they get a trophy. Revenues and expenses are not correlated to wins and losses but rather on the dedicated sports base. Do you think that during the 90's when the Red Sox sucked their owners were in financial trouble...No. Yes the business of sports is just like a corporation but the outcome of games is in no way like trading stocks....You my friend are just an idiot.

[cleaveland]

not sure what kind of bankroll you are talking about but you're talking about a rare event, and thats not the way to day trade in the first place..thats pure speculation..i day trade and bet sports..thats what i do..and i can tell you that on a bad day day trading i can lose a good chunk, but on a bad day in sports gambling i can lose it all very, very, easily.

Are you saying that using margin to trade is pure speculation? Whether you're using your own cash to trade or borrowing the cash, how does the change the speculative element?

[cleaveland]

the outcome of games is in no way like trading stocks

Just making a statement doesn't make it true. Can you prove it's different mathematically? I realize that some stocks pay considerable dividends and that makes a huge difference. IMHO, the main difference between the two is the amount of time involved. It could take years for a good or bad decision to play out in the business world and make or break a company whereas a bad decision can decide a game very quickly.

[Waterstpub87]

One of the key differences would be expected value. All things remaining the same, your sports bet is around -5% or so because of the vig. Stocks should hypothetically rise with inflation, so you should see around a 1% or 2% gain yearly. In addition, stock is much more complicated and on a much larger scale then sports. The two are similar yes, but very different.

[cleaveland]

One of the key differences would be expected value. All things remaining the same, your sports bet is around -5% or so because of the vig. Stocks should hypothetically rise with inflation, so you should see around a 1% or 2% gain yearly. In addition, stock is much more complicated and on a much larger scale then sports. The two are similar yes, but very different.

You're taking the average sportsbettor though. Someone like Tim Donauhgy for example would be much better off (pun intended) only betting the NBA than investing in stocks, I don't many here would argue that.

[byronbb]

They are similar of course in the sense most people lose. The difference is the stock market is rigged.

[aman86]

So since the stock market is rigged
Sports
Should be easier!!!

[byronbb]

So since the stock market is rigged
Sports
Should be easier!!!

In all seriousness I think beating sports is going to be easier than beating the stock market.

[Blax0r]

In all seriousness I think beating sports is going to be easier than beating the stock market.

I agree with this as well; the guys "handicapping" the stock market probably have much more tools (and education) at their disposal than the avg guy making picks.

[Waterstpub87]

You're taking the average sportsbettor though. Someone like Tim Donauhgy for example would be much better off (pun intended) only betting the NBA than investing in stocks, I don't many here would argue that.

Your comparing apples to oranges. The average person will average a gain in the stock market all things being the same. The average person would lose betting sports. There is alot more information that goes into correctly day trading. Its much more difficult, and the results are not obvious as quickly as they are with sports betting.

[mh217]

Are you saying that using margin to trade is pure speculation? Whether you're using your own cash to trade or borrowing the cash, how does the change the speculative element?

no thats not what im saying at all...i trade on margin...im trying to say that the scenario of you losing everything on an ipo is super rare....you are talking about day trading...ipo's are few and far between..plus any successful day trader wont risk everything on an ipo..day trading is a grind, but unlike sports its a grind of a few percent daily..when bets lose you lose 100%....no point trying to explain this to you any clearer...gl hope you make millions.

[cleaveland]

no thats not what im saying at all...i trade on margin...im trying to say that the scenario of you losing everything on an ipo is super rare....you are talking about day trading...ipo's are few and far between..plus any successful day trader wont risk everything on an ipo..day trading is a grind, but unlike sports its a grind of a few percent daily..when bets lose you lose 100%....no point trying to explain this to you any clearer...gl hope you make millions.

It's not that rare to lose everything trading on margin. Consider stocks that lose 50% or more in one day or increase in value by 50% or more in one day, people who are trading heavily on margin (long or short) can easily lose 100% or more at a time. Remember, when you short you have unlimited risk. The only time you have that in sports betting is when you're playing action points with no limit. Your statement about it not being impossible to lose 100% on stocks is just totally wrong. Any stock can go to zero at any time you know.

[cleaveland]

It just occurred to me one huge very significant factor in comparing stocks v. sports betting:

It's illegal to trade stocks based on inside information but it's perfectly legal to bet on sports based on inside information. That point alone gives sports betting a big advantage although only a small fraction of people actually have real inside information.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

no thats not what im saying at all...i trade on margin...im trying to say that the scenario of you losing everything on an ipo is super rare....you are talking about day trading...ipo's are few and far between..plus any successful day trader wont risk everything on an ipo..day trading is a grind, but unlike sports its a grind of a few percent daily..when bets lose you lose 100%....no point trying to explain this to you any clearer...gl hope you make millions.

Although i agree with your point, but i totally disagree with your" you loose everything in sports betting". Bankrolls are all relative. If your investing 1-3% per play yes your winning or losing 100% of your risk but whats the difference between having a 3% swing on your betting bankroll vs having a 3% daily swing in your portfolio. Its not like your going alm in on every wager.

[DOMINATER]

lost nearly 1 million dollars in market in last 12 years , won over 120,000 dollars betting last year alone ?

[mh217]

It's not that rare to lose everything trading on margin. Consider stocks that lose 50% or more in one day or increase in value by 50% or more in one day, people who are trading heavily on margin (long or short) can easily lose 100% or more at a time. Remember, when you short you have unlimited risk. The only time you have that in sports betting is when you're playing action points with no limit. Your statement about it not being impossible to lose 100% on stocks is just totally wrong. Any stock can go to zero at any time you know.

ok if you think stocks go down 50% in one day on a regular basis you are a fukkin idiot....doesnt matter how i explain it to you , you seem hell bent on trying to prove yourself right..and as for the the other guy that said its ok to compare the two if you are betting 1-3 % of your bankroll per play..well then sure i guess..but who the fuk does this??..that sounds like madness to me personally...cant imagine having 20 grand in my acct and making 50 dollar bets all day...thats just a waste of time and energy..and even then you will lose money on sports at a higher clip.

[mh217]

also your statement about any stock can go to zero at anytime is so fukkin beyond retarded that it is clear you dont have a clue how the stockmarket works.

[cleaveland]

also your statement about any stock can go to zero at anytime is so fukkin beyond retarded that it is clear you dont have a clue how the stockmarket works.

"Theoretically, any stock can go to zero, since prices are a function of investor demand. If no one wants to own a stock, you can't sell it at any price."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2482&dat=20020630&id=WaJbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=x1ENAAAAIBAJ&pg=1907,6767963

I won this argument hands down but I won't gloat because it wasn't a big deal really.

[brainfreeze0]

Ive done far better in sports betting than I did in the market, although I was doing penny stocks so...

[KingJD31]

Bottom line if a stock hit 0 you are careless and didn't buy a reliable company, bear Stearns company was a once in a lifetime bankruptcy that does not happen for reliable companys

[mrmarket]

It depends on how you approach it. If you're trading then the two are similar. Fundamentally they are different though - one represents a share of ownership in a business while the other is a voucher on the outcome of an event.

[SharpBoxing]

Although i agree with your point, but i totally disagree with your" you loose everything in sports betting". Bankrolls are all relative. If your investing 1-3% per play yes your winning or losing 100% of your risk but whats the difference between having a 3% swing on your betting bankroll vs having a 3% daily swing in your portfolio. Its not like your going alm in on every wager.

mh217 is too dumb to understand this

[SharpBoxing]

ok if you think stocks go down 50% in one day on a regular basis you are a fukkin idiot....doesnt matter how i explain it to you , you seem hell bent on trying to prove yourself right..and as for the the other guy that said its ok to compare the two if you are betting 1-3 % of your bankroll per play..well then sure i guess..but who the fuk does this??..that sounds like madness to me personally...cant imagine having 20 grand in my acct and making 50 dollar bets all day...thats just a waste of time and energy..and even then you will lose money on sports at a higher clip.

you can make 100 different plays a day with 1% of your bankroll on each play. Then yeah sportsbetting is like investing in stock.

[jjgold]

You need too much money for financial markets
Need tight stop loses also

Key to market is analyzing world news

Stocks and financials markets move on that mainly

[jarvol]

You need too much money for financial markets
Need tight stop loses also

Key to market is analyzing world news

Stocks and financials markets move on that mainly

The only truthful thing you said was that one needs tight stop losses. I have "daytraded" or more accurately I have actively traded certain stocks or certain markets with a short term outlook for several years now. Maybe I only hold it for a few hours one day or maybe for a week or a month or even a quarter. I don't attempt to make money on a stock when it goes up or down 2 or 3 pennies. That is a fools game and no single individual has enough money, time, or info processing ability to do that. You just need to pay attention to short to medium term trends, technical analysis, % short interest of the float, etc and make it your job and be in front of your PC from 9am - 4pm. You also need to realize that it is also much easier to make money when stocks or market are going down because you can make it so much faster. 2007-2008 made lots of people lots of money. You didn't have to predict the housing crash. You didn't have to predict the first bank or 2 to fail or have their stock price cut drastically. You only had to short the banks that were still remaining strong, the auto manufacturers, and associated highly levered, highly cyclical stocks.

The key is the tight stops. You can pick correctly 50% or even less of the time like you do with gambling, but with tight stops you lose 1% or less of your investment unlike sports where you lose 110% of you investment unless you hedge with live bets.

[stig99]

in running trading ie not an outright bet with say betfair is very similar to day trading in stocks