Beat the prick contest - new version is out!

[ldrapeau]

Congrats to the BTP contest team for the new software version, we can now see the leaders in real time and also everyone's picks for the week, should be an interesting competition.

[SBR Lou]

Great stuff! Did you beat the prick last week?

[ldrapeau]

I manged to win 78.74, it was not too hard to beat the prick last week. Another option I wanted to mention is the "This Week's BTP Consensus". I think there is a certain value in this, so I decided to invest all my week 2 BTP winnings in it!

[aca]

Nice job, guys!

[rjt721]

Honestly, I think it sucks. Why are each posters' picks made public? This is ridiculous. It wasn't a problem with last season's setup, where contestants were betting against stale lines and more often than not had to go 4-0 to win the $100 weekly prize. But with the structure as is, each poster fighting for a prorated part of the $5,000 weekly pot, it's completely disadvantageous to display picks for all to see when not all posters have entered their plays for the week.

How about making it an option to have your picks displayed?

[jon13009]

Honestly, I think it sucks. Why are each posters' picks made public? This is ridiculous. It wasn't a problem with last season's setup, where contestants were betting against stale lines and more often than not had to go 4-0 to win the $100 weekly prize. But with the structure as is, each poster fighting for a prorated part of the $5,000 weekly pot, it's completely disadvantageous to display picks for all to see when not all posters have entered their plays for the week.

How about making it an option to have your picks displayed?

I agree, last year it wan not much of a problem, but this year the contest stakes are much different.

This year, with the weekly prizes being worth a lot of money, this contest can potentially become more of a diluted piggyback contest than a handicapping skills contest - if the best player's picks are revealed before others have to pick.

For example, if I know DocJS's or Cabo's picks in advance, i will modify my picks to mirror their choices, and have done little work to figure out what my picks (in terms of handicapping the games) would have been. Doc and Cabo may be flattered you like their handicapping skills, but not thrilled (I am speculating here) that you have eaten into their winnings for that week. However, what will probably happen is that the best handicappers will pass on making their last picks till the very last minute (like last year.)

Make it an option to have your picks displayed. or keep it out altogether - until all the picks are in.

I like allowing the consensus because you don't know who is making those choices.

[Doc JS]

Honestly, I think it sucks. Why are each posters' picks made public? This is ridiculous. It wasn't a problem with last season's setup, where contestants were betting against stale lines and more often than not had to go 4-0 to win the $100 weekly prize. But with the structure as is, each poster fighting for a prorated part of the $5,000 weekly pot, it's completely disadvantageous to display picks for all to see when not all posters have entered their plays for the week.

How about making it an option to have your picks displayed?

I'm inclined to agree with rjt...we are no longer playing against JUST the Prick. We're also, in effect, playing against each other.

One way to get around this is to make your picks just before game time, but obviously not all the games you pick necessairly start at the same time.

If there was some way to keep the picks from being public until after the game started or you could no longer pick those games, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

Doc

[rjt721]

One way to get around this is to make your picks just before game time, but obviously not all the games you pick necessairly start at the same time.

The problem with this is the contest is now using live lines, not week-old stale numbers like last season, so you run the risk of getting a poor line by waiting until the last minute.

[Doc JS]

The problem with this is the contest is now using live lines, not week-old stale numbers like last season, so you run the risk of getting a poor line by waiting until the last minute.

agree 100%.

Doc

[ldrapeau]

I disagree with most of you, this is a contest, it's for fun, yes the prizes are good, but you should never complain about something that is free, the rules are the same for all, and it's just good that the leaders be watched and runed after. Remember the idea is not to have a few guys pick-it all up, it's to offer a good chance to everyone, I like this formula and hope the organizers will maintain it.

[Cabo]

I would agree with the above statements, I dont think you should be able to see others picks until yours are all in

[TLD]

I prefer the picks not be shown before game time. Or that each player have the option whether to reveal his picks, if such a thing is feasible.

I know a lot of people complained from the other side of the issue though, so obviously whatever you do you can’t please everyone. I’m just stating my preference.

[ldrapeau]

ok - put it another way - please answer this question: Is it more an advantage to the leaders or to the losers to display everyone's picks?

I'm not sure about the answer, but I am sure that if a handicapper really nows what he's doing he will win, his picks being showed or not, it's not like if we had 5 games and had to bet on all five games. I think this will attract more participants because everyone will think they have a better chance of winning, and the objective of any "free" contest should be to attract as many players as possible.

So it's obvious to me that it is better to show everone's picks.

One of my dreams is to open an "open book" internet company, one were anyone could view the books of the company at any time, down to the daily balance of the bank account, an ALL transactions in the company. I'm sure that investors would be much more comfortable to invest when they see where every penny is going. And this would prevent all the Enron, and other scandals where big sums go to a very small group of individuals (and only very very few end up in prison - lot of cases are completely unheard of - not to say many stiff books who got away... (Aces Gold -2808.43 15-Feb-2002, Sterling -4142.00 17-Sep-2002, Alladins Gold -5677.00 27-Mar-2002, Bet Camelot -3009.79 7-Mar-2002, The Online Bet -6723.00 21-Mar-2003)

[jon13009]

While this is a "free" contest, there is "real" money at stake every week. (be it 5x rollover money)

Posting picks to be available to contest participants will potentially hurt the winners.

Why? Because there will potentially be more winners in the pool of total winners because good handicapping picks will be identified by the top handicappers choices (particularly their best bets) for that week - thus diluting the prize money (if the prick continues to suck.) If we were all to win a common dollar prize, then seeing other handicappers picks is fine. But the winnings are divided and prorated, so we really are competing AGAINST each other as well as the Prick. SBR probably doesn't care because all they have to do is distribute the $5000 to all the winners who beat the prick.

Showing what the picks of other top handicappers not only hurts them (if they win), it hurts YOU (as a winner) because other people will possibly make better picks, and dilute YOUR winnings as well since their scores will potentially improve with the revelation of the top handicapper's picks by copying them. If the picks are hidden, then the contest is potentially more equal and the winnings more fairly distributed because people are making picks on their own level of handicapping skills - not just copying the best handicappers.

I agree rjt's and Doc's contention that many top cappers will not pick late because of the changing lines.

Although this could also backfire on those who "piggyback" on the top cappers picks, the point is that this is a contest of skill against each other and the Prick, not a consensus of picks against only the Prick with the prize money being a definite amount for all winners - as it was $100 for ALL winners who were usually 4-0 and beat the prick last year.

Set a deadline for making all picks by all players, then reveal the picks so we can benefit by beating the bookies.

Otherwise post the picks as they are submitted, just don't identify who made them until all picks are in.

[rjt721]

I disagree with most of you, this is a contest, it's for fun, yes the prizes are good, but you should never complain about something that is free, the rules are the same for all, and it's just good that the leaders be watched and runed after.

It's a great contest, no one said otherwise. But that doesn't mean we can't offer constructive criticism to allow for changes that make the contest even better.

You want your BTP plays made public, that's fine. However, I, and many others I'm sure, would prefer for obvious reasons that their plays aren't displayed until all contestants submit their weekly picks, making the decision to reveal picks up to each poster, as has been suggested by myself and TLD, the optimal solution (if it's possible).

[Dark Horse]

SBR had it right to begin with, but responded to the kneejerk reaction of people who either didn't understand the new payout structure, or who think that the best free picks on the entire internet are found in this contest.

So now we have a situation where SBR invested a lot of time into satisfying 'overwhelming request', while that request -in true sheep-follow-sheep fashion- was almost certainly uninformed.

Advantages of seeing picks by others:
1) curiosity satisfied
2) a chance to hold hands while betting
3) a way for bad pickers to ride hot ones

Disadvantages:
1) diluting prize money.
2) especially towards end of contest, force leaders to enter picks right before kickoff (as happened in previous years).

Taking out only 'this weeks players picks' could solve most of this. That would keep the nice new software, without, basically, rigging the contest.

[TLD]

There’s another potential disadvantage. I believe in the past there has been at least one case where one or more participants blindly copied another player’s picks every week just to annoy him, so it would be impossible for him to win without thereby enabling people he’s feuding with to win as well. With the new prize structure that problem becomes worse, because now you’ll also be diluting someone’s winnings by copying him. Of course you’re diluting your own winnings as well, but if you don’t care about winning a few more or less dollars in a contest, and your goal instead is just to hurt someone else, then certainly the door is wide open for doing that.

[laxdjock]

When money is on the line people shouldn't be rewarded for other people's work. Picks should be private.

[Dark Horse]

If the max weekly prize is 100, who cares. But the potential weekly prize is 5K. Four blind followers, without any knowledge of football, could dilute that to 1K. I may be wrong, but I could see that not being appreciated.

[ertl09]

once you lock in your picks for the week then you should be allowed to see everyones, not sure if thats possible to do but I think a lot of poster would love that.

[ertl09]

I manged to win 78.74, it was not too hard to beat the prick last week. Another option I wanted to mention is the "This Week's BTP Consensus". I think there is a certain value in this, so I decided to invest all my week 2 BTP winnings in it!

you got paid already for last week?

[pats3peat]

the interface is impressive and most of all hate to see the makers spend so much time on it: I think it was better to not have it public too

[Poker_Beast]

I would agree with the above statements, I dont think you should be able to see others picks until yours are all in

Agreed 100%

[ldrapeau]

ertl09: No I have not been paid, but I have absolute trust in the SBR team, I could not see them not honoring the prize.

I still beleive that it's best to see everyone's picks, BUT let's add a little "kink" called the copyright law, once you submit a pick NO ONE can chose exactly the same teams as you, if the line has moved then they are free to chose the same picks as you. This would prevent simple copying, and if we still see abuse then lock the team combination even if the line changes, this would be great forcing players to submit their picks in real early. I think this would keep all happy (the organisers also), and mostly attract even more players to the contest, remember as soon as you have a contest, the key is to attract as many players as possible. Good luck to all, let's have fun!

[Mudcat]

I got coat-tailed in BTP in a way I would describe as malicious a couple years ago.

I was very successful and a guy who was capping-challenged - while also having a higher post count which mattered back then - just copied my picks exactly a matter of minutes after I posted them.

I couldn't really blame the guy and he did make some money.

But it was really not in the spirit of the contest at all. And with the current rules, that kind of behavior, particularly if wide-spread, could be detrimental for the reasons already discussed.

[konck]

Stop your crying it's great to see the picks i bet against the grain i need to know this info. Nice job on the update yesssssssssssss now you stains get out there an lose so i can mop up tytytytytytytytyt

[Mudcat]

If someone doesn't believe in their own capping, that is a much smarter approach than coat-tailing. But I don't think most players understand that.

[ldrapeau]

Thanks konck, happy to see at least one player is on my side. The concensus has moved over to the Cowboys at -3, I'm confident on the LSU one, so I'm going to invest the winnings of the LSU on those Cowboys, see how that goes;

[jackpot269]

Great stuff! Did you beat the prick last week?

I did crazyl and i only hit one game but it was my best bet!! How did you do Bud!!!!!!!!!!

[SBR Contests]

Gentlemen,

Slated for next week's updates to SBR Contests' Beat The Prick interface is a feature whereby "This Week's Player Picks" and "This Week's BTP Consensus" reporting will remain locked until a contestant has actually submitted his picks. Once a player has submitted his picks, those reports will once again be viewable.

While we realize that it is impossible to please everyone all the time, we'll do our best to please MOST of the people MOST of the time.

[SBR Lou]

I prefer the picks not be shown before game time. Or that each player have the option whether to reveal his picks, if such a thing is feasible.

I know a lot of people complained from the other side of the issue though, so obviously whatever you do you can’t please everyone. I’m just stating my preference.

Right, I agree with that. Thing is though the people pushing for picks being made public are more concerned with viewing others picks for strategical purposes, i.e. as the weeks wind down using that info for competitive purposes. So the people who really keep hammering away picks being public seem like they wouldn't even utilize a "show my picks" option, they'd just hope others would.

Maybe the solution is it to show what everyones on after those games are off the board, that way the people who just want to have fun and see what someone else is on are pleased, and those just wanting to gain information can't do anything with it.

[jackpot269]

Although anything can be improved on, SBR, Mr. Prick, and whoever else is making this contest happen are all doing a great job!!!!!! JMO! Thanks to all who make it happen it was a long off season waiting on the return of BTP. Now until end of the season on Wednesdays ill be checking to see if Mr. Prick has picked his games so i can make my selections!!!!!!!!

[losturmarbles]

i don't think a players picks should be shown at all. having them locked until you make your own picks is a good idea, however once one person has locked his picks, and is able to view everyone else's, what is going to stop him from sharing those picks with his friends?

just leave the scoreboard, and make the consensus locked until plays are picked.

the player picks should either be taking off completely or locked until after the games start.

[Dark Horse]

Gentlemen,

Slated for next week's updates to SBR Contests' Beat The Prick interface is a feature whereby "This Week's Player Picks" and "This Week's BTP Consensus" reporting will remain locked until a contestant has actually submitted his picks. Once a player has submitted his picks, those reports will once again be viewable.

While we realize that it is impossible to please everyone all the time, we'll do our best to please MOST of the people MOST of the time.

Great!

[Mudcat]

This is all so weird anyway. Why would you even be thinking about what anyone else does? Everyone should just make their best picks for crying out loud.

The only justifiable exception in my mind would be as the year is winding down. Depending on the standings people could find themselves in a position where the smartest move would be fading a person they are trying to catch. That's where they may start asking their friends for information about picks that are already in. I think the rules have changed from previous years as far as the deadline for entering picks too. If I am understanding the current system correctly (and I'm not positive I am) that could factor in.

Oh well, there are always going to be angles.