Is Ryan Braun the biggest scumbag in sports now?

[Shaudius]

46% get big law at Northwestern....

46% /=/ +1000 lol

And law school is free for me. I have great parents.

If you can go for free(that's not really free but same difference), then you're fine, probably, at a T14. If you can get into NW(or are already going there), then you're better off than most, but law has no winners anymore(and it actually has less percentage winners by the day as law is a contracting market not an expanding one). BigLaw sucks, I've worked in BigLaw, it's not a place you want to be. Yes, the money is good, but it eats people alive, 95% of people in it want out, but can't leave because they get addicted to the money(that they barely have time to spend, and really works out to about 40/hr pre-tax, which is what I make at my 9-5 job where I can actual use vacation time, hell I could have a second job practically and make out almost as good as a BigLaw associate) or they get kicked out because these days most associates are not partnership track, even in BigLaw.

Since you won't have student loan debt, you can cut and run when you need to, so for you, assuming the above circumstances are true, law school is not a terrible idea, but its still a terrible idea for EVERYONE. That's the point, the law sucks, if you have a high enough GPA and LSATs to get into Northwestern, you'd do well enough without law school, forget if you finish in the bottom half of your class, and that's entirely possible because law school grading is both arbitrary and capricious and at Northwestern you are going to be competing against kids who are just as smart, if not smarter than you are. What do you think happens to the

[Shaudius]

We will see. I just know that if I try I won't fail. Never really have at anything academic related. Had a 3.0 in undergrad despite never going to class. Hopefully I'll stay motivated.

That's the thing, law school doesn't care if you try, people who try in law school still fail, the curve ensures that and shit you have a 3.0 and a 171 LSAT and are on hold from Northwestern, with that GPA you probably won't get in, no offense, which means you'll probably end up outside T14, which means your chances of BigLaw significantly decrease.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

That's the thing, law school doesn't care if you try, people who try in law school still fail, the curve ensures that and shit you have a 3.0 and a 171 LSAT and are on hold from Northwestern, with that GPA you probably won't get in, no offense, which means you'll probably end up outside T14, which means your chances of BigLaw significantly decrease.

We'll see. 20% or so get big law from illinois. I can be top 20% in my class. We'll just see how it unfolds.

[Shaudius]

We'll see. 20% or so get big law from illinois. I can be top 20% in my class. We'll just see how it unfolds.

You can be top 20% but odds are you won't be, and it's BigLaw or bust. So enjoy the 3 years of your life on your parents dime but chances are fairly good you're kind of screwed, its just the truth, and as above, BigLaw isn't winning, its just more hell like law school.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

You can be top 20% but odds are you won't be, and it's BigLaw or bust. So enjoy the 3 years of your life on your parents dime but chances are fairly good you're kind of screwed, its just the truth, and as above, BigLaw isn't winning, its just more hell like law school.

I've heard it all before.

[Shaudius]

I've heard it all before.

And apparently it doesn't sink in, law is a losing game, oh well, you're understand in 3-4 years, can't dissuade lemmings.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

And apparently it doesn't sink in, law is a losing game, oh well, you're understand in 3-4 years, can't dissuade lemmings.

lol.

I love how people spin this.

You're either:
A)someone who never went to law school
B)someone who went to law school and couldn't cut it
C)someone who went to law school, graduated, but didn't enjoy his job opportunities

or the very unlikely

D)someone who went to law school, graduated, got a great job financially but hated it.

Even if you are D, which is very unlikely, who is to say I will hate something just because you did?

[ericthegangster]

lol. I love how people spin this. You're either: A)someone who never went to law school B)someone who went to law school and couldn't cut it C)someone who went to law school, graduated, but didn't enjoy his job opportunities or the very unlikely D)someone who went to law school, graduated, got a great job financially but hated it. Even if you are D, which is very unlikely, who is to say I will hate something just because you did?

BOL pal. You don't sound too passionate about it. Your attitude is kind of like "meh, I will get by." That won't fly in law school. Chances are you'll get eaten alive. It's a lot of hard work and you're bound to get burned out. You sound like the type of guy that's skated through life thus far. Your parents take care of you. Good for you. It doesn't work that way forever. Why don't you man up and pay for your own school? If you have some skin in the game maybe you'll take it seriously. You're either all in or all out with this type of thing....

[greenhippo]

Mike golic would eat you for dinner

Literally

[Shaudius]

lol.

I love how people spin this.

You're either:
A)someone who never went to law school
B)someone who went to law school and couldn't cut it
C)someone who went to law school, graduated, but didn't enjoy his job opportunities

or the very unlikely

D)someone who went to law school, graduated, got a great job financially but hated it.

Even if you are D, which is very unlikely, who is to say I will hate something just because you did?

And you seem to be someone who thinks that a bet where you only have 20% chance of success is worth it. So you're going to risk ~120k-150k of your parents money on something that has a 20% chance of working out economically favorably, that even if it works out economically favorable you will, more likely than not, hate(satisfaction surveys of BigLaw associates indicate this), and even if you love it(the minority of BigLaw associates) will work 60-80/hrs a week on average, not including whatever commute you have. Do you wonder why the average attrition rate in Biglaw is 2-6 years(because most either can't handle it, don't want to handle it, or get tossed to the curb)? Also you say you are lazy and have had a poor work ethic in the past. What makes you think that BigLaw will not be something you absolutely loathe given your outlook on life thus far. Will you suddenly grow up and love working 80/hr weeks on what is for the most part mindnumbingly boring work. I'd take the bet that you won't be one of those that enjoys BigLaw, even if you get it.

But but but, you'll undoubtedly respond, I'm better than my hypothetical classmates, I'll definitely be top 20%, you're just a hater, you don't know how it is. But friend, you have a 3.0 undergraduate GPA, so obviously when you were slacking(unless you have a hard science degree, which I doubt), you weren't able to maintain a high GPA, so what makes you think that if you work hard against people who are frankly, on average, smarter than your undergraduate classmates(and probably also have better GPAs and worth ethics than you judging by Illinois' admission numbers, even when you use the real ones and not the fake ones they reported to USNews for the last three years) that you will suddenly outperform them? It sounds like the hubris of a lemming to me. And as above, even if we take it as given that you'll make BigLaw(which is far from a given), you'll now love working harder than you've ever worked in your entire life, that seems highly plausible.

As for me, I have a great, secure non-Big Law job that I love that allows me to work flexible, non-80 hour weeks. That for the amount of hours I work, I actually make more than a BigLaw associate, and I still regret my decision to go to law school. I am fairly certain I would regret it if I had gone BigLaw instead of what I do, as I did a Summer at an AmLaw 200 firm and decided to do what I do now instead after seeing what BigLaw is really like, which I'm fairly sure you haven't.

But, again, you can't convince lemmings to not fall off the cliff, sure, some of them won't be killed, but the ones that survive for the most part will be severely injured, that's what I think you fail to realize.

I don't blame you really for thinking its just spin, I didn't realize at 23 just what a sham the whole profession of law is, and you honestly won't get it until you're probably done with law school and either can't find a job that pays enough that you weren't just better of doing something else with your 3 years and not wasting a ton of your parents money, or are in a soul sucking BigLaw job where you hate your life even though you have a fair bit of money(that you barely have time to enjoy). So I guess ultimately best of luck to you, you're still better off than the people who don't have albatross student loan debt, but law is anything but flowers, sunshine, and blow.

If I posted this on jdunderground it'd get a big fat, TITCR. Remember that phrase, its one you'll probably be using yourself in 4 years time.

[ThaTopMoron]

don't care either way, glad he gets to play full season.

[Plus573]

And you seem to be someone who thinks that a bet where you only have 20% chance of success is worth it. So you're going to risk ~120k-150k of your parents money on something that has a 20% chance of working out economically favorably, that even if it works out economically favorable you will, more likely than not, hate(satisfaction surveys of BigLaw associates indicate this), and even if you love it(the minority of BigLaw associates) will work 60-80/hrs a week on average, not including whatever commute you have. Do you wonder why the average attrition rate in Biglaw is 2-6 years(because most either can't handle it, don't want to handle it, or get tossed to the curb)? Also you say you are lazy and have had a poor work ethic in the past. What makes you think that BigLaw will not be something you absolutely loathe given your outlook on life thus far. Will you suddenly grow up and love working 80/hr weeks on what is for the most part mindnumbingly boring work. I'd take the bet that you won't be one of those that enjoys BigLaw, even if you get it.

But but but, you'll undoubtedly respond, I'm better than my hypothetical classmates, I'll definitely be top 20%, you're just a hater, you don't know how it is. But friend, you have a 3.0 undergraduate GPA, so obviously when you were slacking(unless you have a hard science degree, which I doubt), you weren't able to maintain a high GPA, so what makes you think that if you work hard against people who are frankly, on average, smarter than your undergraduate classmates(and probably also have better GPAs and worth ethics than you judging by Illinois' admission numbers, even when you use the real ones and not the fake ones they reported to USNews for the last three years) that you will suddenly outperform them? It sounds like the hubris of a lemming to me. And as above, even if we take it as given that you'll make BigLaw(which is far from a given), you'll now love working harder than you've ever worked in your entire life, that seems highly plausible.

As for me, I have a great, secure non-Big Law job that I love that allows me to work flexible, non-80 hour weeks. That for the amount of hours I work, I actually make more than a BigLaw associate, and I still regret my decision to go to law school. I am fairly certain I would regret it if I had gone BigLaw instead of what I do, as I did a Summer at an AmLaw 200 firm and decided to do what I do now instead after seeing what BigLaw is really like, which I'm fairly sure you haven't.

But, again, you can't convince lemmings to not fall off the cliff, sure, some of them won't be killed, but the ones that survive for the most part will be severely injured, that's what I think you fail to realize.

I don't blame you really for thinking its just spin, I didn't realize at 23 just what a sham the whole profession of law is, and you honestly won't get it until you're probably done with law school and either can't find a job that pays enough that you weren't just better of doing something else with your 3 years and not wasting a ton of your parents money, or are in a soul sucking BigLaw job where you hate your life even though you have a fair bit of money(that you barely have time to enjoy). So I guess ultimately best of luck to you, you're still better off than the people who don't have albatross student loan debt, but law is anything but flowers, sunshine, and blow.

If I posted this on jdunderground it'd get a big fat, TITCR. Remember that phrase, its one you'll probably be using yourself in 4 years time.

Great post. Finishing my first year right now. I like my decision so far but am very worried about my professional future. Luckily, I am not going into very much debt so i'll have decent options.

PickWinner - You should actually listen to people rather than thinking you have it all figured out. Remember that statistics for schools are very much skewed - Illinois just had a huge controversy for cooking their books. NW's LS is great, but you are talking as if you are receiving your JD from there. Best of luck in your decision, just know the odds are stacked against you.

Braun is a prikk, karma will come back on the guy this season.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

BOL pal. You don't sound too passionate about it. Your attitude is kind of like "meh, I will get by." That won't fly in law school. Chances are you'll get eaten alive. It's a lot of hard work and you're bound to get burned out. You sound like the type of guy that's skated through life thus far. Your parents take care of you. Good for you. It doesn't work that way forever. Why don't you man up and pay for your own school? If you have some skin in the game maybe you'll take it seriously. You're either all in or all out with this type of thing....

'Thanks Mom and Dad... I know you don't need this $120,000 but I'm going to go into massive debt instead of taking it.'

You wouldn't do that. Why suggest I do it? There is nothing wrong with me taking the money at this point in my life. As for whether I'm passionate about it... it is a competition, so I'll be fine. I don't lose much. We went 48-1 my sophomore year in high school baseball and that 1 loss was too many. Losing isn't an option, brother.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

And you seem to be someone who thinks that a bet where you only have 20% chance of success is worth it. So you're going to risk ~120k-150k of your parents money on something that has a 20% chance of working out economically favorably, that even if it works out economically favorable you will, more likely than not, hate(satisfaction surveys of BigLaw associates indicate this), and even if you love it(the minority of BigLaw associates) will work 60-80/hrs a week on average, not including whatever commute you have. Do you wonder why the average attrition rate in Biglaw is 2-6 years(because most either can't handle it, don't want to handle it, or get tossed to the curb)? Also you say you are lazy and have had a poor work ethic in the past. What makes you think that BigLaw will not be something you absolutely loathe given your outlook on life thus far. Will you suddenly grow up and love working 80/hr weeks on what is for the most part mindnumbingly boring work. I'd take the bet that you won't be one of those that enjoys BigLaw, even if you get it.

But but but, you'll undoubtedly respond, I'm better than my hypothetical classmates, I'll definitely be top 20%, you're just a hater, you don't know how it is. But friend, you have a 3.0 undergraduate GPA, so obviously when you were slacking(unless you have a hard science degree, which I doubt), you weren't able to maintain a high GPA, so what makes you think that if you work hard against people who are frankly, on average, smarter than your undergraduate classmates(and probably also have better GPAs and worth ethics than you judging by Illinois' admission numbers, even when you use the real ones and not the fake ones they reported to USNews for the last three years) that you will suddenly outperform them? It sounds like the hubris of a lemming to me. And as above, even if we take it as given that you'll make BigLaw(which is far from a given), you'll now love working harder than you've ever worked in your entire life, that seems highly plausible.

As for me, I have a great, secure non-Big Law job that I love that allows me to work flexible, non-80 hour weeks. That for the amount of hours I work, I actually make more than a BigLaw associate, and I still regret my decision to go to law school. I am fairly certain I would regret it if I had gone BigLaw instead of what I do, as I did a Summer at an AmLaw 200 firm and decided to do what I do now instead after seeing what BigLaw is really like, which I'm fairly sure you haven't.

But, again, you can't convince lemmings to not fall off the cliff, sure, some of them won't be killed, but the ones that survive for the most part will be severely injured, that's what I think you fail to realize.

I don't blame you really for thinking its just spin, I didn't realize at 23 just what a sham the whole profession of law is, and you honestly won't get it until you're probably done with law school and either can't find a job that pays enough that you weren't just better of doing something else with your 3 years and not wasting a ton of your parents money, or are in a soul sucking BigLaw job where you hate your life even though you have a fair bit of money(that you barely have time to enjoy). So I guess ultimately best of luck to you, you're still better off than the people who don't have albatross student loan debt, but law is anything but flowers, sunshine, and blow.

If I posted this on jdunderground it'd get a big fat, TITCR. Remember that phrase, its one you'll probably be using yourself in 4 years time.

Do I really have to prove myself when a standardized test said that I was in the 98% percentile? I'd also say that is a little low though because I didn't study much for the LSAT. Took a few practice tests, some people seem to take months off to study for the test.

If I can score in the 98th percentile on a test that law schools deem critical in evaluating whether someone can be successful in law school, I don't see any reason for why I can't be successful in law school. Sorry that bothers you.

Forgive me for ignoring most of what you say, but the reality is, if you go on any prospective job field forum on the internet, there will be hundreds of people bashing the field. That is just a guarantee and something that has come of age because of the internet. Everyone is a whiner.

If I wanted to be a doctor I'd go to a medical forum and people would say not to do it.
Pilot - aviation form = don't do it
Lawyer - law forum = don't do it

People are pessimistic bastards and if I listened to them, I'd move to Vegas and gamble for a living because hell, every other field is worthless, according to the internet.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Great post. Finishing my first year right now. I like my decision so far but am very worried about my professional future. Luckily, I am not going into very much debt so i'll have decent options.

PickWinner - You should actually listen to people rather than thinking you have it all figured out. Remember that statistics for schools are very much skewed - Illinois just had a huge controversy for cooking their books. NW's LS is great, but you are talking as if you are receiving your JD from there. Best of luck in your decision, just know the odds are stacked against you.

Braun is a prikk, karma will come back on the guy this season.

I listen to people. I joined a law forum for that very reason and have received some very good information. Actually have a friend who just graduated from UTK (a pretty mediocre law school) and landed a good job where he is enjoying it.

I think the reason you see so much whining and bitching on the internet is that the people who are happy with their jobs don't go online to post about it. So negative reviews of being a lawyer will always outweigh positive ones.

[Shaudius]

For someone who wants to be an attorney, and who did so well on the LSAT, you've done a pretty poor job of refuting the substance of any of my argument. But lets go line by line of what you've said.

Do I really have to prove myself when a standardized test said that I was in the 98% percentile? I'd also say that is a little low though because I didn't study much for the LSAT. Took a few practice tests, some people seem to take months off to study for the test.

The LSAT is an aptitude test, it measures just that, your aptitude. Do I think that your LSAT score reflects your aptitude to be an attorney, most probably. Is that the majority of what law school is about, absolutely not. Being able to make a logical argument is only part of the law school battle(the people who study for the LSAT are just trying to train their brain to think logically to predictable questions). If the LSAT was the only thing that mattered for law school, why would law schools even bother looking at someone's GPA, they'd just take the students with the highest LSAT scores and call it a day. The fact of the matter is your GPA shows a deficiency in some category of your ability, work ethic, or intelligence that can only somewhat be made up for with a good LSAT score. Maybe it will be, maybe you'll get top 20% at U of I, but maybe you won't and then what? You'll be in the same boat you are in right now, except three years older. But perhaps, I've actually figured it out. Your undergraduate GPA is average at best(and, frankly, mediocre for a liberal arts major), so your job prospects are pretty bad, so you've figured why not kill three years in law school and if I don't get BigLaw, at least I'll have a versatile degree(more on this later), we call this phenomenon law school by default. You probably don't know much about what the actual practice of law entails, but you like to argue, and people have always told you you'd make a good lawyer, so here you are.

If I can score in the 98th percentile on a test that law schools deem critical in evaluating whether someone can be successful in law school, I don't see any reason for why I can't be successful in law school. Sorry that bothers you.

It doesn't bother me, it does bother me that you think the LSAT is dispositive. Some studies have suggested that there is a correlation between LSAT score and law school success, but not so strong a correlation that one can go so far as to say success on the LSAT guarantees success in law school. It's not that I don't think you can be successful in law school, its that I don't think you actual realize what it means to fail at law school. Furthermore, I don't think you realize what BigLaw actually entails, both points that you don't acknowledge, or refute, in your response.

Your penalty for failure is low, because you aren't footing the bill, but you're still making your parents pay for what amounts to a gamble. You have better odds taking that 160k to Vegas and betting it all on black.

Oh, and also, failure at law school, as I alluded to above is not a zero sum game. Matt Damon's character in Good Will Hunting said it well, "You don't hear much about guys who take their shot and miss, but I'll tell you what happens to 'em. They end up humping crappy jobs on graveyard shifts, trying to figure out how they came up short." That is law to the majority of law school graduates. It's BigLaw, Shitlaw, or even worse. Because despite what they tell you, the law degree is not a versatile degree, no one wants to hire a JD to be anything but an attorney, it might as well be a scarlet JD. The truth is that most people hate lawyers, and those that don't wonder if you're just going to leave the second a real law job comes open(oh how little they know). While it might not happen to Northwestern grads, it sure as shit happens to U of I grads, if only 20% are making BigLaw, only another 20% tops are making even shitlaw, because every firm in the world thinks they can get top credentials from top law schools with law review and other shit. And you know what the sad truth is, they can. That's how much the legal job market has contracted. Don't believe me? Here's a statistic. There were 760k persons in the United States employed as attorneys in 2008. By contrast, how many attorneys do you think were barred total in that same year? The answer is 1.12 million. That means there are over 400k attorneys in the US doing something other than being an attorney, do you think its because they didn't want to be an attorney? Maybe for some of them, but for a large number of them its because they can't find employment as an attorney, because guess what, everyone wants experience or top credentials, they can get what they need through burned out BigLaw associates. They don't need to bother with your kind if BigLaw doesn't want you. So you'll be stuck with a JD that will actually be a hindrance to your probably non-legal job search or you'll be working in something like insurance defense, personal injury, or family law, I hope you enjoy seeing the dredge of society on a daily basis, if you don't make the soul crushing job that is BigLaw. Or worse, you'll join the ranks of the scores upon scores of unemployed JDs who can't get hits from non-law jobs or law jobs(hint: most of those barred attorneys who aren't practicing law were barred and got out of law well before the current situation existed, we call them out of touch boomers), sounds fun doesn't it?

My best advice would honestly be this, try it for a year, if you don't make BigLaw after 1L, drop, you're done. Since you're not going into debt for it, you can come out clean, and you don't have the scarlet letters after your name.

Don't believe me about this? Look at a legal job board, you'll see that what I say is true.

Forgive me for ignoring most of what you say, but the reality is, if you go on any prospective job field forum on the internet, there will be hundreds of people bashing the field. That is just a guarantee and something that has come of age because of the internet. Everyone is a whiner.

What of what I say is dependent on the forum in which I say it? I mentioned studies of actual BigLaw associate job satisfaction and attrition rates. Those associates are taking anonymous surveys and telling survey-takers, that while they enjoy the money and relative security of BigLaw, they are not happy with their lives, and almost half of 5th year associates do not see themselves making partner or being at the firm in five more years(their perception, not the firms). You do not adequately answer the charge about why you are different, why do you think you will enjoy BigLaw(even if you could get it). What in your slacking background makes you think you will enjoy and thrive in an environment where even if you believe people are satisfied they do indeed work 80/hr weeks almost every single week. And from this post I have opened up a new line of reasoning regarding the bleak prospects of non-BigLaw JDs, which you can self confirm through legal job postings, none of this is based on what I think but the reality of what it is actually like out there.

If I wanted to be a doctor I'd go to a medical forum and people would say not to do it.
Pilot - aviation form = don't do it
Lawyer - law forum = don't do it

People are pessimistic bastards and if I listened to them, I'd move to Vegas and gamble for a living because hell, every other field is worthless, according to the internet.

Again, this has nothing to do with the actual arguments that I am making, you are attacking my logical arguments with a straw man. For someone who got such a high score on the LSAT one would think that you'd be able to refute the substance of an argument without saying, oh you're just whining on the internet. I am not basing my assertions off what people say off the internet, I am basing them off of what they tell surveys(which their firm undoubtedly makes them take), real statistics about billable hours, and your assertions about yourself.

[Jaug]

He got of on a technicality. He is indeed guilty as charged.

[Azzurri]

his test of three times higher than any other positive test MLB ever had done..now a lot of testosterone! Seems a bit fishy one way or the other to me!

[ericthegangster]

For someone who wants to be an attorney, and who did so well on the LSAT, you've done a pretty poor job of refuting the substance of any of my argument. But lets go line by line of what you've said.



The LSAT is an aptitude test, it measures just that, your aptitude. Do I think that your LSAT score reflects your aptitude to be an attorney, most probably. Is that the majority of what law school is about, absolutely not. Being able to make a logical argument is only part of the law school battle(the people who study for the LSAT are just trying to train their brain to think logically to predictable questions). If the LSAT was the only thing that mattered for law school, why would law schools even bother looking at someone's GPA, they'd just take the students with the highest LSAT scores and call it a day. The fact of the matter is your GPA shows a deficiency in some category of your ability, work ethic, or intelligence that can only somewhat be made up for with a good LSAT score. Maybe it will be, maybe you'll get top 20% at U of I, but maybe you won't and then what? You'll be in the same boat you are in right now, except three years older. But perhaps, I've actually figured it out. Your undergraduate GPA is average at best(and, frankly, mediocre for a liberal arts major), so your job prospects are pretty bad, so you've figured why not kill three years in law school and if I don't get BigLaw, at least I'll have a versatile degree(more on this later), we call this phenomenon law school by default. You probably don't know much about what the actual practice of law entails, but you like to argue, and people have always told you you'd make a good lawyer, so here you are.



It doesn't bother me, it does bother me that you think the LSAT is dispositive. Some studies have suggested that there is a correlation between LSAT score and law school success, but not so strong a correlation that one can go so far as to say success on the LSAT guarantees success in law school. It's not that I don't think you can be successful in law school, its that I don't think you actual realize what it means to fail at law school. Furthermore, I don't think you realize what BigLaw actually entails, both points that you don't acknowledge, or refute, in your response.

Your penalty for failure is low, because you aren't footing the bill, but you're still making your parents pay for what amounts to a gamble. You have better odds taking that 160k to Vegas and betting it all on black.

Oh, and also, failure at law school, as I alluded to above is not a zero sum game. Matt Damon's character in Good Will Hunting said it well, "You don't hear much about guys who take their shot and miss, but I'll tell you what happens to 'em. They end up humping crappy jobs on graveyard shifts, trying to figure out how they came up short." That is law to the majority of law school graduates. It's BigLaw, Shitlaw, or even worse. Because despite what they tell you, the law degree is not a versatile degree, no one wants to hire a JD to be anything but an attorney, it might as well be a scarlet JD. The truth is that most people hate lawyers, and those that don't wonder if you're just going to leave the second a real law job comes open(oh how little they know). While it might not happen to Northwestern grads, it sure as shit happens to U of I grads, if only 20% are making BigLaw, only another 20% tops are making even shitlaw, because every firm in the world thinks they can get top credentials from top law schools with law review and other shit. And you know what the sad truth is, they can. That's how much the legal job market has contracted. Don't believe me? Here's a statistic. There were 760k persons in the United States employed as attorneys in 2008. By contrast, how many attorneys do you think were barred total in that same year? The answer is 1.12 million. That means there are over 400k attorneys in the US doing something other than being an attorney, do you think its because they didn't want to be an attorney? Maybe for some of them, but for a large number of them its because they can't find employment as an attorney, because guess what, everyone wants experience or top credentials, they can get what they need through burned out BigLaw associates. They don't need to bother with your kind if BigLaw doesn't want you. So you'll be stuck with a JD that will actually be a hindrance to your probably non-legal job search or you'll be working in something like insurance defense, personal injury, or family law, I hope you enjoy seeing the dredge of society on a daily basis, if you don't make the soul crushing job that is BigLaw. Or worse, you'll join the ranks of the scores upon scores of unemployed JDs who can't get hits from non-law jobs or law jobs(hint: most of those barred attorneys who aren't practicing law were barred and got out of law well before the current situation existed, we call them out of touch boomers), sounds fun doesn't it?

My best advice would honestly be this, try it for a year, if you don't make BigLaw after 1L, drop, you're done. Since you're not going into debt for it, you can come out clean, and you don't have the scarlet letters after your name.

Don't believe me about this? Look at a legal job board, you'll see that what I say is true.



What of what I say is dependent on the forum in which I say it? I mentioned studies of actual BigLaw associate job satisfaction and attrition rates. Those associates are taking anonymous surveys and telling survey-takers, that while they enjoy the money and relative security of BigLaw, they are not happy with their lives, and almost half of 5th year associates do not see themselves making partner or being at the firm in five more years(their perception, not the firms). You do not adequately answer the charge about why you are different, why do you think you will enjoy BigLaw(even if you could get it). What in your slacking background makes you think you will enjoy and thrive in an environment where even if you believe people are satisfied they do indeed work 80/hr weeks almost every single week. And from this post I have opened up a new line of reasoning regarding the bleak prospects of non-BigLaw JDs, which you can self confirm through legal job postings, none of this is based on what I think but the reality of what it is actually like out there.



Again, this has nothing to do with the actual arguments that I am making, you are attacking my logical arguments with a straw man. For someone who got such a high score on the LSAT one would think that you'd be able to refute the substance of an argument without saying, oh you're just whining on the internet. I am not basing my assertions off what people say off the internet, I am basing them off of what they tell surveys(which their firm undoubtedly makes them take), real statistics about billable hours, and your assertions about yourself.

Great posts Shadius. If I had points, I would ship you some

[PickWinnerAllDay]

People hate lawyers. And cheaters! Braun is the latter.

[ericthegangster]

People hate lawyers. And cheaters! Braun is the latter.

Dodging Shadius I see.................. and you're done. pwned. No soup for you. NEXT!

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Dodging Shadius I see.................. and you're done. pwned. No soup for you. NEXT!

No, I'm not dodging him. He didn't really address my points. He makes a compelling argument, but not one that I haven't heard a thousand times.

Unless you are extremely lucky, you don't enjoy your job. It is a means to an end. Who likes working hard? Not very many people.

I'd probably have to play a sport to truly find a job I'd rather be doing than in my leather recliner watching sports.

By the way, are you 12? Pwned? You are either 12 or you play WOW or something, which is it?

[k13]

Everyone in pro sports is "cheating"

Why is everyone so butt hurt about? There's more cheating in real life jobs yet no one cares.

Obviously (insert 10th username) cares more because it's a rival to his team. lol

I would not care if Barry Bonds was injecting himself on the bench waiting to go on deck.

[ericthegangster]

No, I'm not dodging him. He didn't really address my points. He makes a compelling argument, but not one that I haven't heard a thousand times.

Unless you are extremely lucky, you don't enjoy your job. It is a means to an end. Who likes working hard? Not very many people.

I'd probably have to play a sport to truly find a job I'd rather be doing than in my leather recliner watching sports.

By the way, are you 12? Pwned? You are either 12 or you play WOW or something, which is it?

Steve Bartman.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Everyone is pro sports is "cheating"

Why is everyone so butt hurt about? There's more cheating in real life jobs yet no one cares.

Obviously (insert 10th username) cares more because it's a rival to his team. lol

I would not care if Barry Bonds was injecting himself on the bench waiting to go on deck.

The Brewers aren't really a rival. When the Cubs are good, Miller Park is Wrigley Field North. When we suck, everyone beats us so I'd rather it be the Brewers than the Cardinals or Reds.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Steve Bartman.

So you are 12. Cool.

[ericthegangster]

So you are 12. Cool.

I am 27. I see you don't take well to losing. Sorry Shadius put you in your place pal. So you said you wish you could play sports for a living. Now I understand the hate for Ryan Braun - you're jealous of him.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

I am 27. I see you don't take well to losing. Sorry Shadius put you in your place pal. So you said you wish you could play sports for a living. Now I understand the hate for Ryan Braun - you're jealous of him.

You are really immature for a 27 year old. That is all that has been proven here. You seem to follow me from thread to thread trying to start arguments. Whatever gives you your kicks. There are no winners or losers in a discussion though. You add very little to the discussion to begin with.

[k13]

The Brewers aren't really a rival. When the Cubs are good, Miller Park is Wrigley Field North. When we suck, everyone beats us so I'd rather it be the Brewers than the Cardinals or Reds.

Then why do you care so much?

[opie1988]

People hate lawyers. And cheaters! Braun is the latter.

Most definitely hate lawyers. Prikks!

I especially hate great big fat ones like Deuce!!

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Then why do you care so much?

Cheating and getting away with it is fine in my book.
Cheating and getting caught means you suck at cheating. Kinda funny, but again, it is your body.
Cheating and then declaring yourself an innocent victim when in reality you are a lucky bastard who benefited from an honest mistake by a transporter = complete douche.

If Braun was a Cub I'd hate him for this too. I hated Sosa when he corked his bat and then said it was for batting practice. This is pretty much on that level of stupidity.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Most definitely hate lawyers. Prikks!

I especially hate great big fat ones like Deuce!!

I like Franklin and Bash. You seen that show?

[dumare]

Cheating and getting away with it is fine in my book.
Cheating and getting caught means you suck at cheating. Kinda funny, but again, it is your body.
Cheating and then declaring yourself an innocent victim when in reality you are a lucky bastard who benefited from an honest mistake by a transporter = complete douche.

If Braun was a Cub I'd hate him for this too. I hated Sosa when he corked his bat and then said it was for batting practice. This is pretty much on that level of stupidity.

Typical irrational idiot that doesn't have any true facts to back up anything...you don't know what happened, I don't know what happened so why don't you move on with you life...pathetic

[ericthegangster]

You are really immature for a 27 year old. That is all that has been proven here. You seem to follow me from thread to thread trying to start arguments. Whatever gives you your kicks. There are no winners or losers in a discussion though. You add very little to the discussion to begin with.

You're right. I like to argue. I should become a lawyer!

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Typical irrational idiot that doesn't have any true facts to back up anything...you don't know what happened, I don't know what happened so why don't you move on with you life...pathetic

When Braun addresses the media for 30 minutes and his key argument for why he is innocent is that the sample was turned in after 44 hours instead of the 'allowed' 24 hours, he is admitting his own guilt. The sample wasn't tampered with.