kobe would be the undisputed g.o.a.t. if shaq hadnt held him back

[kobefanatic]

we obviously dont know the answer to that..

but what we do know is how great each player has been at his prime... and at that point, kobes only advantage is ft shooting

kobe has better range and low post game i think it's pretty obvious

[zsr]

If dilfer put up number similar to Marino that's a legitimate argument.

Obviously rings are a way to compare ELITE players to each other.

[dlunc3]

how did they have a better roster than miami, shaq is in a steady decline, payton and malone are in the twilight of their career, kobe is having off court issues and most importantly kobe and shaq are feuding, miami has a good roster last year two of the top 5 players in one team

That laker team had probably the top 2 players in the nba at that time... with an amazing surrounding cast, much better then wade/brons surrounding cast last yr... not to mention coaching as well

[BernardMadoff]

kobe has better range and low post game i think it's pretty obvious

I agree with that.

[dlunc3]

If dilfer put up number similar to Marino that's a legitimate argument.

Obviously rings are a way to compare ELITE players to each other.

kobe played with a hof player his whole career...

answer this.. how many rings would kobe have if he were drafted in cleveland like lebron?

[BernardMadoff]

If dilfer put up number similar to Marino that's a legitimate argument.

Obviously rings are a way to compare ELITE players to each other.

I dont agree with this totally since its still a team game, some elite players never got that coveted ring.

[zsr]

You keep saying these hypothetical things. Obviously you don't know the answer nor do i.

[BernardMadoff]

kobe played with a hof player his whole career...

answer this.. how many rings would kobe have if he were drafted in cleveland like lebron?

Zilch and no 50 win seasons, because he would not be passing to no Varejao even for easy baskets...unless triple teamed.

[zsr]

Those Cleveland teams didn't have name recognition but they dominated the offensive glass, dominated defensively, and dominated the regular season. Those were championship caliber teams and not because of one person.

[kobefanatic]

That laker team had probably the top 2 players in the nba at that time... with an amazing surrounding cast, much better then wade/brons surrounding cast last yr... not to mention coaching as well

shaq is in a steady decline after their 3rd ring ask anyone here, they're supporting cast is good but not great rick fox is a shell of his former self, george is inconsistent, slave sucks russell is already old, even malone and payton are way past their time

[dlunc3]

You keep saying these hypothetical things. Obviously you don't know the answer nor do i.

well you have to.. you cant compare these two players based on rings when oviously lebrons teams have never even compared to kobes... all you can look at is the individual player at their prime... and in doing that, the answer is obvious that lebron james in is prime is a better basketball player then kobe bryant in his prime

[dlunc3]

kobe has better range and low post game i think it's pretty obvious

ok thats 2 things... now should we name the 20 things lebron is better at?

[BernardMadoff]

well you have to.. you cant compare these two players based on rings when oviously lebrons teams have never even compared to kobes... all you can look at is the individual player at their prime... and in doing that, the answer is obvious that lebron james in is prime is a better basketball player then kobe bryant in his prime

He is because of his total game, takes a total game to take that Cleveland team to the finals.

[zsr]

You keep saying Kobe had a better surrounding cast but your forgetting last year. Kobe wins a championship with that team and probably puts on another 15-1 playoffs show.

[kobefanatic]

ok thats 2 things... now should we name the 20 things lebron is better at?

can u name them? educate us please we don't watch the NBA highlights as much as you do

[dlunc3]

shaq is in a steady decline after their 3rd ring ask anyone here, they're supporting cast is good but not great rick fox is a shell of his former self, george is inconsistent, slave sucks russell is already old, even malone and payton are way past their time

sure maybe shaq was, but he still averaged 28 and 11 the season prior... no chance last yrs heat team had a better cast around lebron then kobe had in 2004... other then bosh and wade, does anyone even remember one other player from that team last yr?? that laker team was loaded with talent and experience (even if all the players were getting older), had a deep bench, and had the greatest coach ever... last yr is was 3 vs 5 with a rookie head coach and no bench for miami

[dlunc3]

You keep saying Kobe had a better surrounding cast but your forgetting last year. Kobe wins a championship with that team and probably puts on another 15-1 playoffs show.

no chance in hell.. i dont even see that miami team getting past chicago with kobe instead of lebron

kobe has pau and the 2nd best center in the league this yr and has no clue how to use them... noway could he play along side wade and bosh with absolutely no bench or coaching

[dlunc3]

ok im done... until you guys have a better argument then "kobe had better teams and has rings therefore he is better", there is nothing more that can be said

[BernardMadoff]

All you have to do is ask yourself if Kobe would have had Cleveland in the finals against the Spurs, the answer is an easy hell no.

[zsr]

But wait, you want to talk hypothetical when it helps your argument but not when it hurts it?

Gee, who would of guessed.

[dlunc3]

im sure you also say eli is better then peyton too right?

its funny how much rings matter in your thinking on a player to player argument when obviously it is a team game


kobe has 0 rings if he is drafted in cleveland.. end of story

[zsr]

Kobe goes 15-1 with Miami in the playoffs and wins a ring. End of story.

[kobefanatic]

sure maybe shaq was, but he still averaged 28 and 11 the season prior... no chance last yrs heat team had a better cast around lebron then kobe had in 2004... other then bosh and wade, does anyone even remember one other player from that team last yr?? that laker team was loaded with talent and experience (even if all the players were getting older), had a deep bench, and had the greatest coach ever... last yr is was 3 vs 5 with a rookie head coach and no bench for miami

kobe had a washed up malone and payton, george inconsistent as ever, rick fox not even half of his former self, fisher good but never great

miami had haslem, chalmers, james jones are they a bunch of nobodys?

[kobefanatic]

please tell me what 20 things lebron is better than kobe

[BernardMadoff]

kobe had a washed up malone and payton, george inconsistent as ever, rick fox not even half of his former self, fisher good but never great

miami had haslem, chalmers, james jones are they a bunch of nobodys?

Think Haslem was coming back from injury, not himself, Jones is kinda inconsistent, only takes 3's, chalmers was pretty inconsistent last year and at times had his starting job taken.

[kobefanatic]

Think Haslem was coming back from injury, not himself, Jones is kinda inconsistent, only takes 3's, chalmers was pretty inconsistent last year and at times had his starting job taken.

ok almost forgot that, but that isn't a bad team by all means, lakers in 2004 had 4 HOF players but 2 of them are on their way out, and 1 is in a steady decline, the other is having off court issues

[jsmithj88]

For some reason your a diehard Lebron fan so of course your not going to change your mind. Yesterday you posted that he was the reason the Cleveland team had the top ranked defense and dominated the regular season year in and year out, but then his teammates are the reason they lost in the playoffs. I mean just look at that statement, you have to be joking.

thats funny, because thats exactly wat kobe fans say as well

[jsmithj88]

Kobe goes 15-1 with Miami in the playoffs and wins a ring. End of story.

kobe went 0-4 vs the mavs in the playoffs last year
how do u figure he would have that type of success with a new team and a new system?
i think he would be a better fit than lebron given his shooting range and scoring ability
but 15-1 is not very reasonable

[zsr]

thats funny, because thats exactly wat kobe fans say as well

I've never heard one Kobe fan ever say that.

The way his career has gone, if they dominate the regular season, they win the championship or get to the finals. If they have a terrible regular season they go out in the 1st or 2nd round.

What I'm saying is the false argument that lebrons teams in Cleveland were terrible is a joke. Those were championship teams, they dominated the offensive boards, dominated defensively, and obviously routinely dominated the regular season. That's not one guy. That's a team.

[jsmithj88]

I've never heard one Kobe fan ever say that. The way his career has gone, if they dominate the regular season, they win the championship or get to the finals. If they have a terrible regular season they go out in the 1st or 2nd round. What I'm saying is the false argument that lebrons teams in Cleveland were terrible is a joke. Those were championship teams, they dominated the offensive boards, dominated defensively, and obviously routinely dominated the regular season. That's not one guy. That's a team.

never seen kobe fans blame everything else but kobe?
u must have skippped over 90% of kobefanatics posts in this thread
he gave u a very good explanation of why it wasnt kobes fault they lost to the pistons, it was the old HOF players that he had to carry

was cleveland a championship team? i thought it was good enuff at the time.
obviously i was wrong, they just werent good enuff. defensively they were good, but offensively they werent
if lebron didnt score or make plays their offense isnt doing a dam thing.
thats y they could never get past boston.
rondo passing to KG, allen, pierce is a lot different than lebron passing to mo williams, verejao, anthony parker, jamison

is any1 gonna say rose choked and is a loser cuz his team didnt win a title?
was he not the mvp? wasnt his team number1 seed in the east? wasnt his team the best in defense last year? but its obvious y they lost, they dont have enuff talent to win yet. and i would not be surprised if the same thing happend again this year.

[kobefanatic]

never seen kobe fans blame everything else but kobe?
u must have skippped over 90% of kobefanatics posts in this thread
he gave u a very good explanation of why it wasnt kobes fault they lost to the pistons, it was the old HOF players that he had to carry

was cleveland a championship team? i thought it was good enuff at the time.
obviously i was wrong, they just werent good enuff. defensively they were good, but offensively they werent
if lebron didnt score or make plays their offense isnt doing a dam thing.
thats y they could never get past boston.
rondo passing to KG, allen, pierce is a lot different than lebron passing to mo williams, verejao, anthony parker, jamison

is any1 gonna say rose choked and is a loser cuz his team didnt win a title?
was he not the mvp? wasnt his team number1 seed in the east? wasnt his team the best in defense last year? but its obvious y they lost, they dont have enuff talent to win yet. and i would not be surprised if the same thing happend again this year.

it's not an excuse that they didn't win, malone and payton are not washed up right? i said kobe had off court issues that year so of course his mind wouldn't be totally 100% in the game, kobe and shaq were feuding that year, it's not like i said everybody was at fault and not kobe

[SportsMushroom]

nope, just no



when you are just doing what someone before you has done, you will never be the goat



all kobe did in his career was copy jordans moves, he tries so hard to be him that it has become the reason he will never surpass him, just like the number on his shirt, he will get close, but will never touch, because he is nothing more than a follower, jordan was a pioneer

[zsr]

Jsmith, the comparing the bulls of now and this cavs doesn't work because now the bulls have to get through the best roster of all time. The east was nowhere near as strong during lebrons Cleveland days. These bulls would have no doubt been a dynasty.

Do you realize who Cleveland lost too?
The magic?

Boston was tough but like I said nothing like Miami right now.

[dlunc3]

And the heat, who beat the bulls, lost to the mavs.. not much better then those magic or Celtics teams

[zsr]

Dallas beat the heat because of how bad Lebron James played. Now your starting to understand