Plus anyone playing 1/2 is doing it as a hobby. Any aspiring pro or someone playing poker as a side income will be playing 2/5 or 5/10. Not everyone has 1500 to contribute to poker a night but they can play 1/2 with a couple hundred, have fun and might win. 1/2 exist for the poker degens and people who do it for fun or as a hobby
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I have seen the OP state a incorrect fact multiple times. In every casino I have played at, it is approx. 10% rake up to a max of $5 for 1/2 (plus $1 for a BBJ if they have it). They do not take out $5 from a $20 pot and if you catch a dealer doing that, call it out. You are only playing one table so there is no excuse to catch this.
Also I have found the average pot (besides the no flop hands) to be about $50-$120. Therefore, if you win one good pot a hour you have more than covered your rake for a few hours.
Also, anybody who has played any significant amount of poker knows that you need to be properly bankrolled with at least 2-3 buyins (i.e. about $600) to play 1-2 profitably. I can't tell you how many times I have gone down a buyin or two but end up leaving with a profit (i.e. more than $600). Sometimes luck is not on your side and you lose but generally if you are better than the average players you will generally have some profit.
There is no question that rake and tips eat into your profit but that is a cost of the game.
A profit of 10xBB/hour over a reasonable sample size is to be expected.
I think there are very few people that really make a reasonable living playing 1/2 for numerous reasons stated but the key as has been stated a lot is that it is very reasonable for a good player to make some profit and extra spending money.
Not to mention, playing poker is fun and the primary reason most of us play.
Lastly, comparing casino table games as a more +EV game than 200NL poker is silly. I for one absolutely hate giving up $$ to the casino table games.Comment -
Rake is nearly impossible to overcome, for a 6 hour session you need to win a 100 bucks just to break even, when you consider avg pot of 30 bucks raked 6 leaving 24 - 12 of it yours for 12 profit you need to win 8 hands in a 6 hour period just to be even, considering that your avg # of hands won should be 18 that would be half your profits IF YOU NEVER LOST A HAND
With the 500 cashback promo Until enjoys the rake can be overcome, but for the rest of us calling the huge % rake of these low stake games easy to overcome is delusional
The higher the stakes the less of a factor the rake is, at the lowest stakes the rake is a HUGE factor, there is no debating that its simple mathematics, the pots arent big enough on average to accept a 15 hour charge and be a consistent winner, but well just agree to disagree, maybe you guys have some of the fishiest games in the country where guys just push in with 2nd pair and give their money away, by and large the casino 1/2 NL games are nitty as **** thoughComment -
Beerdog no offense but you're the ultimate fish, $120 AVERAGE AT 1/2 ARE YOU FUKIN KIDDING? I'll move to your city if they have 120 avg 1/2 games.
You might get lucky and stumble on a 50-60 average if you get some drunk fish on a friday night but that's bout it, the weekday average is closer to a depressing 30 and I've played at dumpholes like Palomar cardroom in San Diego where it was closer to 20 (never went back)
A 20 pot will have 4 bucks missing, the 1 dollar bad beat and 3 for the rake, if it goes over 30 they take another dollar at least and most often just "round up" to 5 for the rake so they dont have to worry about the rake anymore, sure I can be the ultimate prick and say theres only 32 in the pot and you raked 5 instead of $3.20 (which they couldnt even rake to begin with as they only rake in even dollars) I guess but the thing of it is I dont give a **** how much they're raking when Im not in the pot (what difference does it make to me whether they swipe an extra dollar or not from Joe Blow) and when Im in the pot Im worried about my hand not watching the guy rake 4 or 5 bucks and callin him out on it.
Besides they change dealers every fuckin 30 minutes so am I going to just correct the rake of every hand I win every fuckin 30 minutes a new dealer comes in, all this shit is fukin standard you see, watch the dealer like a hawk next time you play and see how accurate that "10%" really is, these pricks just want to get to max rake so they can get back focused so they dont misdeal and get fired. Aint nobody firing em for rakin too much I can assure you
HEY JOE SORRY ABOUT THAT PRICK STOPPIN THE TABLE TO BITCH ABOUT A DOLLAR, I HAD TO GO OVER THERE AND COUNT THE POT AND TOSS A DOLLAR BACK TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I GAVE A SHIT, YOU'RE DOIN A GREAT JOB JOE, YOU'RE REALLY STICKIN THAT RAKE RIGHT UP THOSE PRICKS ASSES, YOU FILLED THAT FUCKIN BUCKET TO THE BRIM AND THOSE PRICKS ARE BEATEN THEIR BRAINS OUT TRYIN TO WIN SOME 30 DOLLAR POTS AND WONDERING WHERE ALL THEIR MONEY WENT, EVERY ONE OF EM DOWN A 100 AND NOBODY UP
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I have played in a ton of Las Vegas casinos, the Commerce and here in Canada and in my opinion they play pretty much the same all over.
They are both nitty and loose depending on the makeup of the table.
You really have to mix up your play depending on the players at your table.Comment -
OK, good luck to you.
I respond respectfully with my experience and you insult me.
Lots of maturity and class, are you sure you are old enough to enter a casino?Comment -
Maybe I'm overly conservative, but my rule is 15-20 buy-ins for ring games. That's why I never played 2/5 or higher stakes when I was doing this as my only source of income, because my bankroll was never high enough. That and I think that 1/2 is the easiest to beat live, and you never have problems finding a full tables on the weekend, while guys can wait for hours before there are enough bodies to start a 2/5 table, if it even happens.
And bettilimbroke999, you shouldn't be playing 12 hour sessions on a regular basis, that's for the degenerate gambler that craves action. Most of my sessions were a 1/2 hr - 4 hrs in length, and I would have no difficulty at least doubling my money most nights. Only times I would have to grind it out over a long session were when I suffered a bad beat or made a bad call (not very often).
And I know a handful of people that play 1/2 NL for a living. They stick to 1/2 because It's the easiest to beat and they know they can lose a couple of buy-ins without ruining their month. Better to play a lower limit and make a modest living than nothing at all.Comment -
Oh and to all of those I've corrected in this thread....
YOUR WELCOME!Comment -
This thread is getting dumber pretty fastComment -
This is just a good old fashioned thread analyzing how fuckin crazy it is to win a 30 avg pot against a bunch of nits where 12 of it was yours to begin with and get raked for 6 bucks of your 18 dollar win and see if ppl still think they can win enough to even bother gambling given that high a rake, clearly they do and its offensive to them to suggest otherwiseComment -
i still want know where these $150 dollars pots @ 1/2 nl at......
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LOL. I stated that the average pot (besides no-flop hands) is around $50 - $120. Some are smaller, some are larger, hence average pot.
In all 1/2 games I have seen, having a >$100 pot was quite common. After a standard 8-12 raise with 1-3 callers (or more), a continuation bet of 2/3 pot with a caller, you have almost 100 (36+24+24) and that is without significant action and 2 more streets.
Again, averaging it out, $50 - $120 pots are quite common.Comment -
There's a place in NC where you can buy in deep. Not uncommon to see a $1000 pot playing 1/2 there.
This thread does make some valid points. I've never been a fan of bad beat jackpots and getting a dealer who stares you down after every pot is annoying, but saying that nobody can live off of playing 1/2 isn't accurate. Imo, it's not worth leaving a decent steady job over, but living off of playing 1/2 can be done. I know people who do it.Comment -
just the way it seem to be worded like it was the norm...avg pots to me be about 75Comment -
my only reason for saying is a personal friend of mine decided to make a living playing small stakes NL, his bankroll was 4300 and he was above average player so he decided to start off playing 3/6 and he just got blasted away. maybe the stress of making a living deter his play but he really got crush.Comment -
You are at an extremely good table on a fri/sat night if the table avg is 75 you can certainly make money. Go on a normal day like a Wednesday and add up the first 20 pots you see and divide by 20, I think youll find the table avg is a hell of a lot less than 75 bucks, a typical 1/2 game string of pots on a Wednesday night will be like 15, 40, 20, 30, 100, 60, 50, 15, 40, etc, everything averaging out in the 40 dollar range right where the dealer can consistently drag that 6 buck rake/bad beat every hand, the gamblers that believe they are good enough to make money playin poker simply play higher limits, 2/5 or above, 1/2 is for the birds and I assure you NO ONE makes a living at it, unless they are living with their parents or on welfare
I know we got 500 future Doyle Brunsons on here that dont even know what an avg pot is but somehow make a living at poker but OTHER THAN THEM nobody makes a living at 1/2Comment -
I take offense to people calling professional poker players gamblers. For me its no different than playing the stock market. There will be ups and there will be the inevitable downs, but if you do it right and stay disciplined you will make money over the long haul. And part of that discipline is not playing above your bankroll, hence the reason why many small-time pros choose to limit their exposure by playing low-limit.
And FIY I was not living with my parents or on welfare while I was a full-time player. I had my own place with 3 cars in the garage, paid my way 100%, and had no debts.
There is just no reasoning with you man. You have made up your mind and nobody is going to change it. Your only hope is to get to know some winning players and start hanging around them, I think thats the only thing that will bring you around.Comment -
Tell em at Grand Casino Tunica to give everybody a refund then bc when that pot hits the 30s theres always a fiver goin to the house, I watched em rape the pots for an hour that's just the way it goes, 10% is a fuckin myth, first off nobody could do 10% since that would involve cents and they only play with dollars, 2ndly the dealer just makes a random instant assessment of the pot and if its anywhere close to 40 bucks they just assume the pots over 40 and 5 bucks into the houses pocket
I know how the rake works pal do you?Comment -
yep....I play poker semi professionally right now and even though the rake is terrible you can make a living playing 1/2. Granted not a great one but I would expect somewhere between 20-50k. If your properly rolled or even slightly under rolled I would recommend 2/5 but if you can play poker well you will be fine.Comment -
well depending on how much you play I mean but 15/20 $/hr seems bout rightComment -
alot of weak players in live 1-2, if you go at the right times, ie fri and sat night ... if u are young and have no bills, I can see supplementing your income w a AVERAGE of about 200-400$ a month grinding on the wknds ... I wouldnt go on the wk days, u would have to continue to get lucky by getting on tables w rich old guys throwing money away, best time for that is around dinner time (they come in to eat w their comps) ... we get .50 cents a hour round here to play, that comes in handy for about a dinner date a month ... there is no way u can live off live 1/2, unless u are like most the people who call themself "pros" -Translation- my parents pay my bills and I have a monhly trust fund and maybe some parttime job like caddy at the golf course off and on
but I live in a riverboat area w really no tourism what so ever
edit ... now that I think about it, I could probably live off 1-2 if I were on SSI, lolComment -
Everyone here considers themselves a semi-pro at poker that could play .25/.50 NL with a huge rake and still make 50k a year so I'm no longer posting in this thread, 95% of you fuckin bozos would be down at the end of a year playing live casino 1/2 NL much less averaging 20/hr pay
Keep livin in fantasy land you "semi-pro" fish, just bc you played 5 hours one time and caught the deck and won a 100 bucks doesnt mean you could avg 20/hr as a full-time job
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Oh brother, Im sure you made a great living playing 1/2 Why do all the suckers always end up in my threads, get fuckin real You say almost no one makes money at sports gambling and 500 bozos come in with I make 50k a year betting on sports Say no one ever makes money at horse races and another 500 bozos will claim they make a fortune at the track Say no one can overcome a 20% rake suddenly everybody and his brother makes 30k on the side at 1/2 If I said no one makes a living at lotto 500 guys would chime in they make 100 mil a year playin powerball Fukin clowns
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@betlimit
What would you say if a 1/2NL regular said he had a spreadsheet to keep track of his performance and that over 100 trips to the casino, playing 8 hours a session, he is averaging $11 an hour in real "performance" money and with casino promotions thrown in, is getting $16 an hour? Would you simply admit you were wrong? Or would you have some brilliant response that proves the guy is a loser?Comment -
Whats the Max buy-in? if its 200$ then thats 64% ROI ... and 5$ a hour comp average for a 1/2 NL player?
100 hrs isnt that big of a sample, Ive played 100hrs between 10 sessions live and been up 2k, thats 100% ROI w the 200$ max buy-in around here, but no way could I live off of what I could average playing live 1-2.Comment -
potyoh brother, im sure you made a great living playing 1/2
Why do all the suckers always end up in my threads, get fuckin real
you say almost no one makes money at sports gambling and 500 bozos come in with i make 50k a year betting on sports
say no one ever makes money at horse races and another 500 bozos will claim they make a fortune at the track
say no one can overcome a 20% rake suddenly everybody and his brother makes 30k on the side at 1/2
if i said no one makes a living at lotto 500 guys would chime in they make 100 mil a year playin powerball
fukin clownsComment -
Max buy in is unusual in that it's a hundred bucks.
Believe it or not, it's actually $7.50/hr if you play exactly 20hrs in a week (You'd get zero for playing 19) But the comp is zero for every hour after that, so your "average hourly earnings" would decrease for every hour over 20 you played that week.and 5$ a hour comp average for a 1/2 NL player?
Sample is 100 trips, not hours. 8 hours a trip = 800 hours.100 hrs isnt that big of a sample, Ive played 100hrs between 10 sessions live and been up 2k, thats 100% ROI w the 200$ max buy-in around here, but no way could I live off of what I could average playing live 1-2.Comment -
lol you are something else.Maybe you just are bad at poker? have you ever thought of that? Trust me it isn't that hard to make $20 an hour. I have a friend who in a 6 month span made $50/hr playing almost every day during that time span and my range all last year always hovered between $15-30/hr. I never said you could make a great living at 1/2 but you can make a teachers salary thats for damn sureEveryone here considers themselves a semi-pro at poker that could play .25/.50 NL with a huge rake and still make 50k a year so I'm no longer posting in this thread, 95% of you fuckin bozos would be down at the end of a year playing live casino 1/2 NL much less averaging 20/hr pay
Keep livin in fantasy land you "semi-pro" fish, just bc you played 5 hours one time and caught the deck and won a 100 bucks doesnt mean you could avg 20/hr as a full-time jobComment -
Okay first off casinos that have these incredible rakeback promos violate the rules of my post. I never said you couldnt make a good profit at poker I said you couldnt make a good profit at casino 1/2 NL given the incredibly high % rake relative to the low average pot size
When a 36 pot becomes a 30 pot it is nearly impossible to win in the long-run bc 1/3 of your winnings are going to the guy shuffling the cards. If the casino is nice enough to give ya 40-50 bucks in comps everytime you play then winning is significantly easier, 95% of casinos comp a dollar/hr your friends comp rate is 5x normal.
I would also suggest that given 100 trips he has probably cherry picked the hot days like Fri-Sat nights and holidays and has been on a hot streak as well, 100 sample size is nothing, a pro player playin 6 days a week will have that sample in 4 months, look at a pro poker players chart on a tracking site sometime they have literally years were they couldnt lose and years where they couldnt win, a 4 month stretch winning above average in poker is nothing.
Lets say though that at a normal casino hed avg 12/hr (11/hr + 1/hr comp) just for arguments sake and played 16 hours a week 8 on Fri and Sat nights, given this perfect set of circumstances and believing his 100 trip sample to represent accurately his overall average he would make around 200 a week or 10k a year, hopefully your friend lives with his parents while making his "living" at 1/2 and of course if hes had an above average 100 trip run as I suspect his living will be even lessComment -
you make a good pointComment
