Admit it: Manning is better than Brady

[bettilimbroke999]

Manning should win MVP this year.

Agreed

Can you imagine 1 player in history that if replaced would have this effect on their team? Manning proving 2 things, #1 the NFL is all about the QB and #2 he is the best QB on the planet

[LeagueCapper]

Your an idiot. You fail to mention anything about Bill Bilicheck vs Jim fuckin Caldwell. Easily the worst and dumbest coach in the league.

[The Seer]

I highly doubt the Pats would get beat 62-7 without Brady.

[Roadtrip635]

Manning has too much choke in him

[rsnnh12]

Agreed

Can you imagine 1 player in history that if replaced would have this effect on their team? Manning proving 2 things, #1 the NFL is all about the QB and #2 he is the best QB on the planet

No. Not at all. This team has way more problems than the QB

[bucsfan]

In all due respect, I think alot of it is execution and coaching. Last night was a perfect example. Caldwell is fuckin clueless. Peyton coaches that team not Caldwell. They should give Peyton Caldwells salary as well cause he is doing 2 jobs out there. Brady is in a much better situation with Bill. I will say this. Peyton is definitly more valuable to his team..

[rsnnh12]

In all due respect, I think alot of it is execution and coaching. Last night was a perfect example. Caldwell is fuckin clueless. Peyton coaches that team not Caldwell. They should give Peyton Caldwells salary as well cause he is doing 2 jobs out there. Brady is in a much better situation with Bill. I will say this. Peyton is definitly more valuable to his team..

Just to be clear, Belichick doesn't call the offensive plays.

[ByeShea]

Brady is my pick for all-time best QB. And I'm a Jets fan, if I had some bias here - it would be against him.

Off the top of my head, I don't ever recall seeing Brady go down in flames - where he made critical mistakes and cost his team a game.

Plus, how many games do the Patriots play where his performance alone just keeps it from being close? 3 to 1 ring count, too - and he never had top-tier weapons (though he has enjoyed top-tier offensive lines).

Manning is a freakishly good QB and worthy of this debate, but we all know the face he makes when he costs his team the win.

[SportsMushroom]

manning is not a winner, period

he is a spoiled little brat that goings into a temper tantrum when he doesnt win

as I said again, he should be thanking his lucky stars he was given that ring, that loser should be ringless, but Im sure even then people would keep following the hype and thinking manning is a good QB

[bobby heenan]

Me too... and of course you leave out the 09 game in Indy, or you didn't go to it.... you know, the 4th and 2 17 pt 4th quarter comeback game....

i did not go to that game...i was out in vegas watching it at the bellagio...went to the cotto/pacquiao fight

[ByeShea]

Your an idiot. You fail to mention anything about Bill Bilicheck vs Jim fuckin Caldwell. Easily the worst and dumbest coach in the league.

To be fair, Jim Caldwell isn't Vince Lombardi either.

[MichaelWaters]

madden rankings

peyton is a 95 all-time
brady is a 92 all-time
rodgers is a 94 currently
steve young is a 97 all-time (best ever)

[mgcolby]

Yeah that's why they Signed Bledsoe for a $100 million, ten year deal so they could play a 6th round pick over him.

That injury saved the whole franchise. It's not like two years later Brady was going to start. They have nothing invested in him. Couple years go by and he's cut or traded for nothing. Goes to the Browns and is never heard from again because if Brady went to Browns he would suck.

You seriously should stop because you have no clue what you are talking about. I haven't finished reading the thread but my guess is someone has already corrected you. But just incase:

1. That was Kraft who gave him that contract and it was before Brady had the training camp that he had.
2. In Michael Holley's book Patriot Reign in which he had full access to the team during the 2001 season, he stated that Weiss and Belichick were impressed with Brady throughout his rookie season and were openly talking about Brady replacing Bledsoe during Training Camp. And if you recall the team started off 0-2 under Bledsoe. It was only a matter of time before Brady replaced Bledsoe as the starter during the 2001 season. Mo Lewis simply hastened the process.

[mgcolby]

Or at least admit Manning is far more valuable to his team.

Brady goes down and Pats win 11 games with Cassel, Matt fukking Cassel, at QB!!!!! You know, Matt, career QB Rating of 84!!!! How is that 16-21 record working for you KC fans? at least half of the QB's in the league would be superstars as NE's QB.

Manning goes down, Colts have yet to win a game.

How about those Steelers? What is it? The fact that Brady own's the Steelers and has since he came into the league? Brady is the best QB to ever step on a Football field and he is just now hitting his peak (since last season) that is a scary thought for some of the haters out there. But I get it, I never wanted to admit that Montana was as good as he was out of hatred for him and his team. Brady's career numbers stand up to anyone's.

And Matt Cassel took over a team that went 18-1 the season prior and led them to an 11-5 record with a 1-5 record against teams with a winning record. The 2008 team won against the bad teams, and Matt Cassell has turned out to be a fairly decent QB especially in the Charlie Weiss based offense, see last year if you need a reminder. For a statnerd you consitantly spew some stupid shit, especially when the stats don't back you up!

[mgcolby]

madden rankings

peyton is a 95 all-time
brady is a 92 all-time
rodgers is a 94 currently
steve young is a 97 all-time (best ever)

Really? This is your argument? Let me guess you are one of those guys that thinks they could be a great GM in the NFL because your Madden franchise is like totally awesome!

[mgcolby]

To be fair, Jim Caldwell isn't Vince Lombardi either.

I don't think Jim Caldwell knows who Vince Lombardi is....Half the time he doesn't look like he even knows he is at a football game much less coaching one.

But at the same time the Colts team is built to play with a lead. Weak against the run and focusing on pinning their ears back and getting to the passer when they get the lead, knowing teams will abondan the run.

New England is built as whole as possible, at times sacrificing top tier talent for a stronger middle class and better overall depth. Two competely different approaches to team building, so for people to point at this season as some sort of proof of Peyton being better than Brady is just silly. People need to take the totality of the facts and come to their own conclusion. For 10 years Brady and Peyton have been 1a and 1b with each person having their own preference. Any fan outside of New England and Indy would have killed to have either over the past decade, and anyone who says other wise is either lying to themselves or is an idiot. But when you factor in overall talent that both have played with, the fact that Manning plays no less than 10 games in a dome each year, as opposed to Brady who if he is lucky might get 8 good games in mild weather, the super bowls, the wins, the playoff wins etc.... I don't see how anyone could say that Peyton is better.

[MichaelWaters]

Really? This is your argument? Let me guess you are one of those guys that thinks they could be a great GM in the NFL because your Madden franchise is like totally awesome!

these are my madden style rankings. 0 to 100

rodgers breaks the pocket and throws on the run in situations where manning/brady would have to throw it away. same with steve young but at an even higher level. young best ever

[mgcolby]

these are my madden style rankings. 0 to 100

rodgers breaks the pocket and throws on the run in situations where manning/brady would have to throw it away. same with steve young but at an even higher level. young best ever

Ok I see your point but to be fair to Peyton, in 2006 he improved his throwing on the run dramatically and actually became a threat outside of the pocket. Obviously he is no Steve Young or Rodgers when it comes to scrambling but he is/was a good threat outside the pocket the last 5 years or so. Something he was terrible at the first half of his career. But I would still take Montana and Brady over Young. Peyton and Young would be a tough decision with the edge probably going to Young because of his playoff performances. What about Elway he wasn't to shabby outside the pocket?

[Vuk]

Rodgers is better than both...[/quote]


Agreed...might be the best the league has ever seen...makes it look so easy too.

[hitman09]

Manning is better Tom in the way the set up the game, perfectly.

[vyomguy]

brady is clutch

[ThaTopMoron]

How many SBs has Manning (4) and Brady (2) won in the years that they win the MVP Award?

0.

Brady & Pats will not come up short like Peyton & Colts, when Tom has the great offense but only an average D and not as clutch of a kicker... coaching staff worse than 2001-2004...he will still come out ahead!!!

2007... 2009... 2010 and 2 Regular season MVP awards later... 0 Super Bowls, and 2 game losing streak at home in playoffs

oh and don't forget blowing an 18 pt lead in the 06 AFCCG... just another record for Tommy

so none of you pat backers got anything to say bout this? why hasn't he won a 4th ever since the demise of the Pats dominate defense, losing vinny... losing coaches... but the rise of his offensive weapons and the skill increase of Tom Brady himself? why was he only winning when he, himself... had less on offense and he was not of good a QB himself in his early years?

oh... more, a hell of a lot more... is on HIS SHOULDERS ALONE. but still not the amount that has been on Peyton's shoulders for his entire career basically.

[rsnnh12]

so none of you pat backers got anything to say bout this? why hasn't he won a 4th ever since the demise of the Pats dominate defense, losing vinny... losing coaches... but the rise of his offensive weapons and the skill increase of Tom Brady himself? why was he only winning when he, himself... had less on offense and he was not of good a QB himself in his early years?

oh... more, a hell of a lot more... is on HIS SHOULDERS ALONE. but still not the amount that has been on Peyton's shoulders for his entire career basically.

Do you expect them to win every year?!?

Everybody falters at some point, everyone loses games. Brady has, Manning has, Favre, Young, Elway, Montana, everyone.

They can't win the Super Bowl every year... so much has to go right to even win 1. The fact that Brady has QB'd 3 winners, with minimal talent on offense, speaks volumes to his abilities.

Montana himself says Brady will go down as the best ever... why don't Manning fans ever respond to this? Truth hurt?

[mgcolby]

so none of you pat backers got anything to say bout this? why hasn't he won a 4th ever since the demise of the Pats dominate defense, losing vinny... losing coaches... but the rise of his offensive weapons and the skill increase of Tom Brady himself? why was he only winning when he, himself... had less on offense and he was not of good a QB himself in his early years?

oh... more, a hell of a lot more... is on HIS SHOULDERS ALONE. but still not the amount that has been on Peyton's shoulders for his entire career basically.

Did you sleep through SB 38? How did that dominate defense do in that game?

And the Pats defense hasn't been far off the mark from the SB winning defenses. People just remember them differently. 2002 and 2005 they ranked 17th in points allowed, every other year since 2001 they have finished no lower than 8th in points allowed.

And go look at Brady's playoff numbers compared to Manning's.

[ThaTopMoron]

Do you expect them to win every year?!?

Everybody falters at some point, everyone loses games. Brady has, Manning has, Favre, Young, Elway, Montana, everyone.

They can't win the Super Bowl every year... so much has to go right to even win 1. The fact that Brady has QB'd 3 winners, with minimal talent on offense, speaks volumes to his abilities.

Montana himself says Brady will go down as the best ever... why don't Manning fans ever respond to this? Truth hurt?

again no direct response to my statments... why ever since the Pats defense has regressed from 06 on, BB isn't called some genius anymore (post spygate and losing all his coaches around him) vinatieri gone... but Tom has the OFFENSE WEAPONS and the Patriots as a whole morphed into an offensive team and BRADY IS MORE SKILLED HIMSELF, THUS HAS MORE RIDING ON HIS OWN SHOULDERS TO WIN GAMES PRACTICALLY ON HIS OWN, DO MORE AT THE LOS ETC... why can't Tommy get it done anymore?

you say he can't do it every year? wasn't the entire world calling for the Pats to win the AFC last year after his magical 36 - 4 TD to INT ratio? oh... td to int ratios don't win super bowls

they got to the SB in 07 despite TOM BRADY'S BAD PLAY in the AFCCG... defense continually holding the Chargers to Field Goals...

there's 2 perfectly good chances right there, the Pats heavily favored to win it all both times... what were the Pats favored by in SB 42...? 14???

that's Brady, getting into the SB with average play... OR NOT PLAYING AT ALL, Brady didn't even have to win a AFCCG to get into his first SB, it was Bledsoe who beat the Steelers in 2001...

and the only thing he did in that SB was lead a FG drive in a tie game vs Rams prevent the win defense and watch Vinatieri be the real hero. in the entire game he got 1 short td drive on a short field thanks to his defense and the other score was a pick 6 by the defense...

and that's after he got a redo from the officials after fumbling away the game vs the Raiders

what an awesome playoff run that was from Brady

[sneakerhead]

Manning is good but Brady is better

[ThaTopMoron]

Did you sleep through SB 38? How did that dominate defense do in that game?

And the Pats defense hasn't been far off the mark from the SB winning defenses. People just remember them differently. 2002 and 2005 they ranked 17th in points allowed, every other year since 2001 they have finished no lower than 8th in points allowed.

And go look at Brady's playoff numbers compared to Manning's.

that was his only good playoff game out of all 9 and oh... he got to play yet another SB in a dome and in a tie game the Panthers kickoff goes out of bounds and Brady gets the ball at the 40... clutch 20 yard drive for another Vinatieri legend building kick to win

2002 and 2005 the Pats missed the playoffs and lost a divisional playoff game to the Broncos (Brady 99 yard pick to Champ Bailey to the 1 yard line just as the Pats were about to finally take the lead... clutch)

u wanna talk about 01 03 and 04 please?

this is too easy

[mgcolby]

that was his only good playoff game out of all 9 and oh... he got to play yet another SB in a dome and in a tie game the Panthers kickoff goes out of bounds and Brady gets the ball at the 40... clutch 20 yard drive for another Vinatieri legend building kick to win

2002 and 2005 the Pats missed the playoffs and lost a divisional playoff game to the Broncos (Brady 99 yard pick to Champ Bailey to the 1 yard line just as the Pats were about to finally take the lead... clutch)

u wanna talk about 01 03 and 04 please?

this is too easy

You really have issues. First you stated that he won with dominating defenses yet, his 2nd super bowl the team played anything but dominating defense. And Adam missed a 31 yard chip shot in the 1st quarter of that game and then had a 36 yarder blocked. So if he makes either of those FG's the Pats take a knee on that final drive. What were you saying about easy?

And if I remember correctly in 2004 the Pats won with Two rookie CB's and Hank Poteat playing Safety.

In 2005 Brady threw two picks in the Denver game and the team fumbled 3 times, five turnovers on the road and you lose.

The guy has 6 game winning drives in the playoffs and 3 game winning drives. How many does Manning have? I'll help you out 1 of each. And did you really mention a dome? Really? You can't be that numb given Manning plays no less than 10 games a year in a dome and 10 of his playoff games have been in a dome.

And how convenient that you leave out the drive in SB 42 down 10-7 with just under 8 minutes, Brady puts together a 12 play 80 yard 5:30 TOP TD drive? Does that not count? How did Manning do in the Super Bowl when his team down by 7 in the 4th quarter and had 3:30 left with the ball on his own 30? Did you say something about clutch?

Brady is 14-5 in the playoffs compared to 9-10 and in the majority of those 10 losses the Colts defense played better than their season averages. Manning has been choking in big games since college. I can't remember a time when Brady has thrown a pick six to close out a Superbowl win for the other team. Can you? Or how about a pick six in the 4th quarter of any playoff game? I can't seem to recall one.

If you have to win one game and you have to pick between Brady and Manning you would really pick Manning?

[rsnnh12]

that was his only good playoff game out of all 9 and oh... he got to play yet another SB in a dome and in a tie game the Panthers kickoff goes out of bounds and Brady gets the ball at the 40... clutch 20 yard drive for another Vinatieri legend building kick to win

2002 and 2005 the Pats missed the playoffs and lost a divisional playoff game to the Broncos (Brady 99 yard pick to Champ Bailey to the 1 yard line just as the Pats were about to finally take the lead... clutch)

u wanna talk about 01 03 and 04 please?

this is too easy

Criticizing Brady for playing a Super Bowl in a dome? Are you serious? Manning has spent more than half his career in a cushy dome, and Brady STILL puts up better indoor numbers

You're freaking delusional.

[ThaTopMoron]

You really have issues. First you stated that he won with dominating defenses yet, his 2nd super bowl the team played anything but dominating defense. And Adam missed a 31 yard chip shot in the 1st quarter of that game and then had a 36 yarder blocked. So if he makes either of those FG's the Pats take a knee on that final drive. What were you saying about easy?

And if I remember correctly in 2004 the Pats won with Two rookie CB's and Hank Poteat playing Safety.

In 2005 Brady threw two picks in the Denver game and the team fumbled 3 times, five turnovers on the road and you lose.

The guy has 6 game winning drives in the playoffs and 3 game winning drives. How many does Manning have? I'll help you out 1 of each. And did you really mention a dome? Really? You can't be that numb given Manning plays no less than 10 games a year in a dome and 10 of his playoff games have been in a dome.

And how convenient that you leave out the drive in SB 42 down 10-7 and he puts together a 12 play 80 yard TD drive? Does that not count?

Brady is 14-5 in the playoffs compared to 9-10 and in the majority of those 10 losses the Colts defense played better than their season averages. Manning has been choking in big games since college. I can't remember a time when Brady has thrown a pick six to close out a Superbowl win for the other team. Can you? Or how about a pick six in the 4th quarter of any playoff game? I can't seem to recall one.

If you have to win one game and you have to pick between Brady and Manning you would really pick Manning?

I'm not COMPARING PLAYOFF CAREERS BETWEEN THE TWO YOU FUKK... I'm trying to get an answer to why BRADY CAN'T GET IT DONE EVER SINCE HE HAS HAD TO SHOULDER THE SAME AMOUNT THAT MANNING HAS ALWAYS HAD TO SHOULDER.

JESUS.

LEARN TO READ

i can do the same fukkn thing you just did... Manning lead potential game winning drives/game tying drives for field goals in:

2000 vs MIA late drive FGA to win game (missed... then in OT, defense loses the game) end of season

2005 vs PIT late drive FGA to tie game (missed, game over)

and how about last year? lead team to a clutch field goal late in the game to take the lead with only 1 minute left... the rest of the team still found yet another way to lose.

2008? Defense gives up the lead late vs SD, game goes to OT.... Colts never see the ball on offense as the defense blows it yet again.

4 blown seasons right there chump.

I can do it too!

done with u fools, thread made for a reason... Manning > Brady

[ThaTopMoron]

Criticizing Brady for playing a Super Bowl in a dome? Are you serious? Manning has spent more than half his career in a cushy dome, and Brady STILL puts up better indoor numbers

You're freaking delusional.

I was pointing out his only good stat game actually occurred IN A DOME. Meaning, you know... he couldn't do it outside. Get it??? Making one of the most basic arguments that simple minded Pat fans like to use null and void.

He only has good stat games in the dome... oh... ehhh... what? who u talkin bout now? I'm confused.

have fun now, I win. existence of the thread proves it... ppl who were on the fence for years are going with Manning.

[mgcolby]

I'm not COMPARING PLAYOFF CAREERS BETWEEN THE TWO YOU FUKK... I'm trying to get an answer to why BRADY CAN'T GET IT DONE EVER SINCE HE HAS HAD TO SHOULDER THE SAME AMOUNT THAT MANNING HAS ALWAYS HAD TO SHOULDER.

JESUS.

LEARN TO READ

i can do the same fukkn thing you just did... Manning lead potential game winning drives/game tying drives for field goals in:

2000 vs MIA late drive FGA to win game (missed... then in OT, defense loses the game) end of season

2005 vs PIT late drive FGA to tie game (missed, game over)

and how about last year? lead team to a clutch field goal late in the game to take the lead with only 1 minute left... the rest of the team still found yet another way to lose.

2008? Defense gives up the lead late vs SD, game goes to OT.... Colts never see the ball on offense as the defense blows it yet again.

4 blown seasons right there chump.

I can do it too!

done with u fools, thread made for a reason... Manning > Brady

Wow did you forget to take your zoloft today?

5 times Peyton has entered the playoffs with a top 8 defense in Points allowed. Brady has entered the Playoffs with a top 8 defense in points allowed 7 times. Not quite as lop sided as you like to think.

[mgcolby]

I was pointing out his only good stat game actually occurred IN A DOME. Meaning, you know... he couldn't do it outside. Get it??? Making one of the most basic arguments that simple minded Pat fans like to use null and void.

He only has good stat games in the dome... oh... ehhh... what? who u talkin bout now? I'm confused.

have fun now, I win. existence of the thread proves it... ppl who were on the fence for years are going with Manning.

Did you just say that the argument of Manning and Brady is over because a Steelers fan with an obvious hatred of Brady started a thread on an anonymous betting board saying as much? Really? I was wrong you aren't on zoloft, you must be on Ridlin because I don't think they can prescribe zoloft to children. You certainly lived up to your name with this post.

[rsnnh12]

I was pointing out his only good stat game actually occurred IN A DOME. Meaning, you know... he couldn't do it outside. Get it??? Making one of the most basic arguments that simple minded Pat fans like to use null and void.

He only has good stat games in the dome... oh... ehhh... what? who u talkin bout now? I'm confused.

have fun now, I win. existence of the thread proves it... ppl who were on the fence for years are going with Manning.

Living up to your username. So Brady's 130 QB rating vs Pitt wasn't a good statistical game? 92 vs Indy, plus a rushing TD?

You're ridiculous. Manning is better because he doesn't have better stats, despite playing in a dome? Because he doesn't do what it takes to win when it counts?

[slacker00]

Brady & Manning both go to the HOF. What else matters? I'd rather argue Elway versus Montana. I'll take Elway. Who cares?