Full Tilt Poker Accused Of Stealing $440 Million In Giant Ponzi Scheme

[Bobby D]

As is Bitar and Ferguson.

Sharp observation.

You mean jews stole millions and millions of dollars ??

[thetrinity]

glad i cashed out the couple grand i had on there in january and never played again. players will likely never see any money even though dwan suggests otherwise.

[jjgold]

Man who does not want to see Ivy in prison getting it in the ass??

He fukked so many people

what a thief..how can he ever go out in public again?

[Fishhead]

Man who does not want to see Ivy in prison getting it in the ass??

He fukked so many people

what a thief..how can he ever go out in public again?

[Dutch]

durrr opens up. If I were him I would STFU

The kid may get hurt

Who is doing the talking here, Who is Durrr?

[pokerplayer22]

Who is doing the talking here, Who is Durrr?

Tom Dwan (pro poker player)

[CarpeDime]

Isn't "Ivey" a Jewish name?

yup

[Dutch]

Tom Dwan (pro poker player)

I've seen him on Poker after dark.

When they talk about Howard and Chris Ferguson, that's the dudes they call the Professor and Jesus?

I didn't realize these guys were the movers and shakers behind these poker room websites, I just thought they got paid to look like fools with ads all over their shirts.

[RudyRuetigger]

this place needs to be modded more but what they do at 2p2 is a fukkin joke... mods try to act like a fukkin sheriff in the wild west

[yokspot]

The AGCC must be gnashing their teeth in frustration, hoping to drag this out for months (still no word on their "meeting" with FT), now the DOJ pulls the rug from under their feet and they'll have to pull the plug on FT now sooner rather than later.

Ah, the life of a bunch of "online gambling regulator" crooks. Maybe the AGCC and FT will set up shop together.

[jjgold]

Ivy is Jewish

[TT22]

Why do they call this ponzi scheme? To sound more dramatic? That's not right wording. Fraud and embezzlement it sounds like to me.

[RGG]

Man who does not want to see Ivy in prison getting it in the ass??

[Bobby D]

Why do they call this ponzi scheme? To sound more dramatic? That's not right wording. Fraud and embezzlement it sounds like to me.

Full Tilt Poker's cash flow problems began in 2010 because of a federal government crackdown on online poker sites that disrupted the payment processing account, preventing Full Tilt from withdrawing money from U.S. players' accounts. U.S. government lawyers claims that Fult Tilt continued to credit players accounts with what amounted to $130 million of 'phantom funds,' a practice that backfired (much like Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme did) when players won the fake money and could not cash out.

These guys are nothing but crooks masquerading as card sharks.

[stevenash]

Why do they call this ponzi scheme? To sound more dramatic? That's not right wording. Fraud and embezzlement it sounds like to me.

Sort of a Ponzi scheme.
You need investors to have a real Ponzi scheme, I guess you can call the players that post up 'investors'

[ttwarrior1]

note: phil ivey has nothing to do with this and not named on anything, its even rumored he works with the doj on this

[pokerplayer22]

Since Howard Lederer is one of the theives behind this, I wonder if Annie Duke is involved at all?

[I/O]

yup

[GunShard]

Lol, Glad I only played the freerolls and never ever deposited once.

[LVHerbie]

Tom Dwan did an interview with pokernews yesterday... http://www.pokernews.com/news/2011/0...ents-11061.htm

[Jmayor]

That's crazy, I feel bad for the players there that actually deposited

[Vegasjack2]

I can guarantee that every poker room and sportsbook and online casino for that matter operates similar to this. If no crackdown had ever been put in place, nothing would of ever been exposed. Think about how much these poker rooms actually pay out in comparison to what gets deposited. In the grand scheme of things, how many poker players actually win? Sure as hell is not 50% like most people think. One guy loses $20 to this guy, this guy loses $40 to another guy and that guy drops $100 to a fourth guy. At the end of the day, the poker room only has to pay out one person and who is to say when or how much he cashes out. Odds are that the amount all four of them deposited wont have to be paid out for quite some time, if ever. Look at how much money was left in everyone's accounts. There are even people in this thread claiming thousands. To believe that any of these poker rooms or sportsbooks actually have dollar for dollar to payout is ludicrous. I believe in sports betting this problem is probably much much worse. In sports betting its documented that such and such a percent actually are winning bettors. What is it, in the 10% range. If books get 100 people depositing $100 each on a Sunday that’s $10,000. I could almost guarantee as a bookmaker you would be safe pocketing $8000 of that money if not more. With a website that has the volume and popularity of full tilt or any of these sportsbooks your almost safe pocketing the whole amount because each of these websites know that there are deposits coming tomorrow to cover the few winners there are today.
If anyone was SHOCKED that this type of thing actually existed in these poker room/sportsbooks I guess this is your wake up call. I think the only reason myself and everyone else should be shocked is because of the household names and some what gambling "celebrities" involved in the scam.
I make a deposit for the games I want to bet on the weekend each Friday and make the withdrawal Monday morning. Sure you may eat some fees, but at the end of the day the money stays real and in my hands and your not at risk of being buried if anything like this happens, and as we have seen it has and probably will keep on happening for the time to come until all of this is resolved.

[stevenash]

I make a deposit for the games I want to bet on the weekend each Friday and make the withdrawal Monday morning. Sure you may eat some fees, but at the end of the day the money stays real and in my hands and your not at risk of being buried if anything like this happens, and as we have seen it has and probably will keep on happening for the time to come until all of this is resolved.

You'd be better off betting with a reliable local week to week settling up on Wednesdays.

[Fishhead]

I can guarantee that every poker room and sportsbook and online casino for that matter operates similar to this. If no crackdown had ever been put in place, nothing would of ever been exposed. Think about how much these poker rooms actually pay out in comparison to what gets deposited. In the grand scheme of things, how many poker players actually win? Sure as hell is not 50% like most people think. One guy loses $20 to this guy, this guy loses $40 to another guy and that guy drops $100 to a fourth guy. At the end of the day, the poker room only has to pay out one person and who is to say when or how much he cashes out. Odds are that the amount all four of them deposited wont have to be paid out for quite some time, if ever. Look at how much money was left in everyone's accounts. There are even people in this thread claiming thousands. To believe that any of these poker rooms or sportsbooks actually have dollar for dollar to payout is ludicrous. I believe in sports betting this problem is probably much much worse. In sports betting its documented that such and such a percent actually are winning bettors. What is it, in the 10% range. If books get 100 people depositing $100 each on a Sunday that’s $10,000. I could almost guarantee as a bookmaker you would be safe pocketing $8000 of that money if not more. With a website that has the volume and popularity of full tilt or any of these sportsbooks your almost safe pocketing the whole amount because each of these websites know that there are deposits coming tomorrow to cover the few winners there are today.
If anyone was SHOCKED that this type of thing actually existed in these poker room/sportsbooks I guess this is your wake up call. I think the only reason myself and everyone else should be shocked is because of the household names and some what gambling "celebrities" involved in the scam.
I make a deposit for the games I want to bet on the weekend each Friday and make the withdrawal Monday morning. Sure you may eat some fees, but at the end of the day the money stays real and in my hands and your not at risk of being buried if anything like this happens, and as we have seen it has and probably will keep on happening for the time to come until all of this is resolved.

[P.F.Kasooff]

Fishhead vs Tom 'durrr' Dwan NL Holdem with equal stake

FH -115

Tom -105

[robzilla]

This whole thing just gave bounty another meaning.

[19th Hole]

note: Phil ivey has nothing to do with this and not named on anything, its even rumored he works with the doj on this

fail

[gauchojake]

When the cash flow in is like a fire hose and the cash flow out is like a garden hose, keeping segregated accounts seems like a pretty trivial matter.

[Shaudius]

I'll echo what someone said on page 2, I don't understand is how is this any worse of a ponzi scheme than a bank, its not like banks have the exact money you deposited available for you. They take your money and they loan it to other people. They get interest on other people's loans to make money, and they pay you less interest on your "holdings". The only difference is that banks are required by law to have a certain amount of cash on hand and be FDIC insured to a level of loss to each individual account. Its fantasy to have ever thought your money was sitting in a bank account somewhere waiting for you to cash it out and that the site was only taking the rake out of each pot to use for whatever purpose they wanted, this isn't shocking at all.

[nyplayer33]

it isn't far fetched to think the rng also known as the deaing of cards was juiced as well

[gauchojake]

it isn't far fetched to think the rng also known as the deaing of cards was juiced as well

I played a lot on stars and party back in the day and the tilt rng never seemed quite right. I deposited and played a few times but the feel of the site was off.

I could never understand why the big pros would stack crazy chips there. I guess now we know. Table money was chump change compared with their payouts.

[JACK MATZ]

Lost a lot with Fulltilt. How greedy do people need to be. I hope they get whats coming to them..

[ttwarrior1]

wild that nobody has mentioned that lederer and ferguson were board members of the ppa. they gave money to the ppa and the ppa will only say , was given to congressman,legislators, etc

PPA are also thieves as well as chuck kidd

[tracker2208]

I can guarantee that every poker room and sportsbook and online casino for that matter operates similar to this. If no crackdown had ever been put in place, nothing would of ever been exposed. Think about how much these poker rooms actually pay out in comparison to what gets deposited. In the grand scheme of things, how many poker players actually win? Sure as hell is not 50% like most people think. One guy loses $20 to this guy, this guy loses $40 to another guy and that guy drops $100 to a fourth guy. At the end of the day, the poker room only has to pay out one person and who is to say when or how much he cashes out. Odds are that the amount all four of them deposited wont have to be paid out for quite some time, if ever. Look at how much money was left in everyone's accounts. There are even people in this thread claiming thousands. To believe that any of these poker rooms or sportsbooks actually have dollar for dollar to payout is ludicrous. I believe in sports betting this problem is probably much much worse. In sports betting its documented that such and such a percent actually are winning bettors. What is it, in the 10% range. If books get 100 people depositing $100 each on a Sunday that’s $10,000. I could almost guarantee as a bookmaker you would be safe pocketing $8000 of that money if not more. With a website that has the volume and popularity of full tilt or any of these sportsbooks your almost safe pocketing the whole amount because each of these websites know that there are deposits coming tomorrow to cover the few winners there are today.
If anyone was SHOCKED that this type of thing actually existed in these poker room/sportsbooks I guess this is your wake up call. I think the only reason myself and everyone else should be shocked is because of the household names and some what gambling "celebrities" involved in the scam.
I make a deposit for the games I want to bet on the weekend each Friday and make the withdrawal Monday morning. Sure you may eat some fees, but at the end of the day the money stays real and in my hands and your not at risk of being buried if anything like this happens, and as we have seen it has and probably will keep on happening for the time to come until all of this is resolved.

First, that's not true. Pokerstars is licensed by the Isle of Man, which require player funds to be firewalled in an account separate from operation funds. This is why they were able to pay back US players. So there is at least one poker site that does not operate like this.

Second (not addressing your post), calling FTP a Ponzi scheme is retarded. If I deposited $100 and play break even poker, I expect to have access to that amount of funds minus rake at the end of the day, lets say $95. What FTP did was on top of the $5 in rake they took $70 more to pay and loan Ivey, Furgeson, Lederer and the rest of the owners ridiculous amounts of money. Call that misappropriation of funds, call it fraud, call it stealing. Just don't call it a Ponzi scheme. It would be like calling a car theft ring a Ponzi scheme.

I do agree with your advice not to leave money in any poker/book/casino website for longer than you can help it.

[brucethebear]

First, that's not true. Pokerstars is licensed by the Isle of Man, which require player funds to be firewalled in an account separate from operation funds. This is why they were able to pay back US players. So there is at least one poker site that does not operate like this.

All Australian sports books are similar. They also are heavily regulated and must have the liquidity to pay out all prospective wins.