Poker Studs...

shady610 · 06-30-08, 01:18 AM

honestly go for a book. Do what i did, dont read it front to back. Pick parts and read them here and there..

I liked PLay poker like the pros since it helped identify how players play and how to play them. If you follow Hellmuth, youd know he doesnt care about odds. He just wants to get his cards in with the best hand.

Your best bet is to get a book of a pro whos style most resembles yours. Or at least read their articles, blogs, and watch there videos. Since I play a similar style to hellmuth ( not as good, but i play much like he does ) i try to catch his videos an articles.

VegasDave · 06-30-08, 01:32 AM

I've always been a pretty decent player, but after reading Dan Harrington's No Limit Tournament Hold'em Volume 1, my game has completely jumped to the next level. He explains not only his conservative style, but all styles, pros and cons, how to look for value, when to bet, etc... I've been cashing like crazy since I read that.

Most importantly though, after pot odds (you need to know them, whether you choose to ignore them from time to time is up to you, but you have to know them), is pre-flop play. How many times as a beginner do you call in early position with K J, get raised, and then call? Falling in love with face cards... then you flop J 9 2 and lose all your chips to AJ or QQ.

My point on preflop is simply this; playing conservatively while boring makes things MUCH easier after the flop. If you call with stuff like Q 10, you have to be willing to lay it down sometimes when the flop comes Q 3 2... Calling with less then premium cards means the discipline of knowing you might be beat. When I call with Q 9, I'm looking for a 8 10 J flop or a 9 9 3 flop, I'm not assuming 9 7 4 is the best hand (of course I'd bet it and hope to win, but when I get beat by JJ, I can't complain.

Simply: Don't call with a less-then-great hand if you can't get away from it. Thats the one lesson I've paid $1000s to learn.

SBR Lou · 06-30-08, 01:46 AM

Do not read a book, I will contact Al Masters who is our resident professional online poker player, which I believe is his main source of income aside from any other ventures he has. If he chooses he'd probably give you some good pointers...

jjgold · 06-30-08, 06:16 AM

Brunson has solid books

All the poker pros are well read on no limit hold-em

Rowdy Rolex · 06-30-08, 06:16 PM

Thanks for all the help

I'm gonna pick up a solid book if I can get one at the used book store for now and see how that goes, yet keep the possibility of sampling one of these sites for a month or two while I'm home this summer...

SBR Lou · 06-30-08, 06:19 PM

If you are set on a book google the "Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky, or if you are interesting in NL Hold Em tournaments check out Dan Harrington's books. They are both equated to being the true bibles of poker, Brunson's stuff is outdated and his recent adaption was overrated.

Patrick McIrish · 06-30-08, 06:39 PM

Books are fine, learned a little from a few, but nothing beats experience. Nothing is going to get you better than thousands and thousands and thousands of hands. It's like trying to break in the NFL as a QB, no substitute for playing time.

BurtRapp · 06-30-08, 06:49 PM

You must read books now a days. The stakes you are talking about playing are a joke. People will stay in on anything with you. Honestly you might not understand this but you need to lose a lot of money to become a better player. You need to play all the time but be patient. You can read books while playing and just play premium hands while your doing that. Too many people play now. You need to find soft games and pokerstars isn't the site. PS is good for tournaments. JMO

TheLock · 06-30-08, 07:01 PM

Harrington's book (Vol I) is well known and I would pick that up like usc said.

Angel Largay's Low Limit No Limit Hold Em book is my favorite because I play $1/$2 and $2/$5 exclusively and it's geared towards those games.

Anyone who is halfway serious about poker, reads books about poker. And the good books are the ones you read over and over.

JDizzel · 06-30-08, 07:10 PM

read ... books will help you more than you think ..

Patrick McIrish · 06-30-08, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by TheLock

Anyone who is halfway serious about poker, reads books about poker. And the good books are the ones you read over and over.

Yep. First book I read (Hold 'em for Advanced Players) I didn't even understand conmpletely, read it all the way through and set it aside. As I went back to it again (and kept playing cards) is when it began to sink in. I needed more playing experience to grasp all the concepts they were presenting to me. To this day I keep a couple of poker books around the throne, never take a dump without a short burst of review material handy. Right now I got High-Low Split Poker by Ray Zee in the bathroom, brushing up on my Omaha game. Amazing that even after all those years I still pick up new stuff and/or refresh my mind on some of the things I have read years ago. You better never quit learning in this game, if you do the others will pass you by.

chandler1981 · 06-30-08, 08:55 PM

ROLEX,

Congrats on the recent success. Seems like you are on the right track. I haven't used the sites you mentioned, but I wouldn't expect much out of them. 20-30 bucks a month isn't much money, but I would expect more entertainment than knowledge from them.

Like Irish said, nothing beats experience. But, odds are so important that books helped hammer this into my head. Also, position is upmost important.

Keep playing, read books about HOLDEM odds and study scenerios that include making the right and wrongmoves in certain seats.

When you play, try to remember everything. I have made more money because of other players faults than by holding Aces.

GL Buddy.

Al Masters · 07-01-08, 05:01 PM

Hey Rowdy, Welcome to The Wonderful world of Disney, oh i mean poker.
(where the roller coaster rides last a life time)
Congrats on that 2nd place finish!

First off let me state that's it's nice to see someone interested in learning as opposed to bragging. you got a chance.

1st off i will answer all your questions best i can, in the end u can always refer back to permalink#8 PATRICK McIRISH's post as i firmly agree with his take on experience and playing tons of hands to gain it.

Regarding your inquiry about odds and probabilities, the best book out there is
odds and probabilities by Matthew Hilger, buy it, but you must read it,you stated that you don't like to read, that may be a problem when it comes to learning poker math as it can become tedious and tiresome, and you must go over it a bit to truely understand things, but that book is as good as it gets spend the 25$ their, not at the cardplayer/pokersavy site.

I'm familiar with the cardplayer/pokersavy site, the site features online training
vids by pros filming themselves while they play online, then they breakdown all aspects of the play thats happening at that time, it went from 99$ to 24$. IMO FUN TO WATCH , BUT NO VALUE IF YOU MUST PAY ANYTHING.Matasow is just one of many he is not with pokersavy.

I'm not familiar with Negreanus site that you mention, however may i suggest these sites. Bluffmagazine.com,pocketfives.com, pokernews.com,Cardplayer.com, theses are sure to help you find anything you need to know about the game.

Many as cardplayer.com have free calculaters for free to help you figure odds out,
also checkout wizardofodds.com, good site for all odds and prob theory.

Although the math thing is great to know, don't commit all of your time to just this one aspect of play, be sure to know the fundamentals, pot odds, implied odds, value betting, the value s of paying to draws,although all decisions are(betting, folding,raising, bluffing) partially odds and probability related , it only makes sense to know at least the basics.YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE SUPER MATH HERO at poker.

I'd spend as much time if not more learning about tells.

Also if you play a lot online may i suggest some kind of poker tracker, you must have one if you play seriously, however make sure the sites you play at haven't banned them from there site, all that info should be stated on the sites page.

I'm man enough to admit i never used any of those pay sites to learn, they weren't around when i started, it was the trenches or don't play.

My trenches were at Foxwoods where i played from day one the poker room opened lasting about 8 years regularly.

if i can leave you with one last thing Rowdy it's this.

cut down on your watching the game on tv, although entertaining. it's not a true
picture of the game, as your usually watching huge stakes games with millions of deals being made so as not to lose huge(deal making=phoneypoker), or your watching guys at final tables,
please don't get that confused with grinding out a living in the real poker world.

ALL THE BEST......................AL

Rowdy Rolex · 07-01-08, 08:39 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I picked up helmuth's book today for a couple of bucks at the used book store, and will give it a read for now...

I must say though I've been looking around every poker training site I can find for the past few days now and am very impressed with cardrunners... Even for pure entertainment they seem to provide a lot of videos and advise (mainly taping cash games they play online and discussing strategy/observations to make, something that I'm sure you learned years ago Al) I'm probably gonna give them a run, even if I get nothing more then entertainment from it... It's entertained me with the three sample videos on their site thus far, and they seem to have the best review on the net... One of their pro's did a 5 video intro to playing low stakes games and how to learn and make the most of it that looks to be a solid foundation (extremely tight, reminds me of the one howard lederer dvd I saw a year or two ago). He requires (or strongly suggests) getting a tracker just like you do Al, so I'll probably pick that up as well (He notes one for 55 bucks I believe, is this around what I'll pay???)

Thanks for all the help. I'm gonna pick up Mathew Hilgar's book in the next few weeks or so, along with harringtons book (keep my eye on the used book store/give up and buy it new).

I think I'm off to a good start at taking it more serious now though...

SBR Lou · 07-01-08, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Rowdy Rolex

He requires (or strongly suggests) getting a tracker just like you do Al, so I'll probably pick that up as well (He notes one for 55 bucks I believe, is this around what I'll pay???)

Yes- I also own Poker Tracker and it was $55 back then. I don't think the prices changed at all, unless you buy a Hold Em + Omaha bundle deal. It's a powerful tool, but like everything, you must learn to use it properly.

Bullajami · 07-01-08, 10:09 PM

If you're an Omaha player, Lyle Berman's chapter in Super System 2 is a solid read. Also, Rolf Slotboom has written some excellent articles for CardPlayer on the subject. Rolf also has some videos available that are above average.

All the Hilger books are excellent. Definitely recommend The Poker Mindset by Ian Taylor (and Hilger) - its about keeping your head on straight regardless of what the cards are doing.

Best of Luck!

SBR Lou · 07-01-08, 10:31 PM

Online poker is fun but you just have to control it like anything else, can be too easy to lose cash there. Click mouse, lose house.

jolub · 07-01-08, 10:56 PM

I'd like to thank all of you for your input. I've learned alot just reading them and I'll learn more as I bookmarked the sites that were mentioned. All of them were new to me.

Al Masters · 07-02-08, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by crazyl

Online poker is fun but you just have to control it like anything else, can be too easy to lose cash there. Click mouse, lose house.

Crazy i like the click mouse, lose house saying, mind if i use it?

Now just to play devils advocate here, i believe that saying can
also be applied to sportsbetting.

Although Crazy you may not even know it but you actually gave
great advice in saying ..............YOU JUST HAVE TO CONTROL IT.

This is certainly one of many keys needed to earn money playing online over the course of time.

Al Masters · 07-02-08, 04:17 AM

[quote=Rowdy Rolex;854083][[["Thanks for all the advice guys.

I picked up helmuth's book today for a couple of bucks at the used book store, and will give it a read for now...

I must say though I've been looking around every poker training site I can find for the past few days now and am very impressed with cardrunners..."]]]

ROWDY ,im not trying to play your accountant here, and this is only friendly advice, don't penny pinch when investing in books to read, they will last you forever, better off depositing less at site and investing in books......like that commercial says..learning priceless.

Open your mind and look at this way.

YOUR NOT BUYING A BOOK, YOUR INVESTING IN YOURSELF!

Rowdy, about looking for a training site the past few days, i understood in your 1st post you were looking for an information site in regards to odds &probs .

If a training site is what your looking for i highly recommend
PokerPages.com, they have what i believe is one of the oldest online schools, with qualified teachers for only 15$, not sure if thats monthly or what.

It's a European site, but no problem if your American, good rep,
good people behind them.

They were actually filming the WSOP in the earlier days, then putting it on there site hours later, however ESPN eventually put a stop to that.

MonkeyF0cker · 07-02-08, 04:44 AM

Personally, I really don't think you need to read a book. I've never read a poker book and I play in Vegas for living. The things you were asking about in your original post come down to essentially learning to count outs. If you can correctly count the outs you have against certain hands, you can calculate your odds of drawing the winner and thusly, the pot odds necessary to make it a proper call. There are many free sites which should explain how this all works. Just google it.

donjuan · 07-04-08, 06:49 PM

I picked up helmuth's book today for a couple of bucks at the used book store, and will give it a read for now...

Hellmuth's book is awful and will cost you money. If you want to read one book about poker, pick up Theory of Poker by David Sklansky (dirty old man that he is, this book is still a good introduction).

Bullajami · 07-05-08, 11:26 AM

Would you really classify Theory of Poker as an introduction to poker book? It's a classic, no doubt, but I would recommend it for medium to advance learners, not beginners.

St.Aquinas · 07-05-08, 01:53 PM

Dan Harrington's No Limit Tournament Hold'em Volume 1

Excellent book!