You think America has problems now, Just wait until...

[crustyme]

Like I said before, the demise of Medicare has only been temporarily extended. Taxing, borrowing, and printing money can only work for so long.


Police and fire protection can be privatized, I don't like my money being forced into them either. When I reach 65, which is a long time away, I doubt Medicare will be there. These programs are unsustainable. Governments can not manage anything. Their mismanagement inevitably leads to widespread poverty. You can look at the economies with the most government control of the health sector and see how it is: Cuba, North Korea, Greece, etc. There is no pricing mechanism, no profit motive, no incentives, and no real cap on spending.

I can manage my money better than government can, and I'd much appreciate it if government didn't steal my money so that I actually will be able to pay for my own health care when I am 65. Like Harry Browne said: Government is good at one thing: It knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, "See, if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk."

so you're predicting the demise of the united states also? debt, borrow, print money... sound familiar?

again, people have been speculating the demise of medicare for nearly half a century. yet many of its critics took advantage of the program before their deaths. im sure you'll be one of those people.

have you watched the documentary 'sicko'? cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world and its free. north korea was once a prosperous country also, until the floods caused famines.

again, you just dont like paying taxes yet want everything for free. sounds like a typical neocon.

[Extra Innings]

what part of npr did not conduct the poll do you not understand?

"The survey was designed and conducted by Drs. Salomeh Keyhani and Alex Federman of Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Over the summer of 2009, they surveyed a random sample of more than 2,000 physicians."




i merely posted the polls to show how satisfied doctors were of medicare and how they did not want to privatize or eliminate it as you claim according to your unofficial/undocumated/unpublished/unverified poll.

You are obviously unaware as to how NPR works. My advice is you type the following terms into google to get a more recent and accurate gauge of how doctors feel about medicare...every result is negative.

Let me help you:

http://tinyurl.com/3jspe6m

[Extra Innings]

You are living in a parallel universe pal

Here are the results...very consistent with the poll from two years ago you cited

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com
Finding a Doctor Who Accepts Medicare Isn't Easy - NYTimes.com
Potential Medicare payment cuts alarm doctors, hospitals
Potential Medicare payment cuts alarm doctors, hospitals - Boston.com
Are Doctors Really Boycotting Medicare? | The Health Care Blog
Texas doctors leaving Medicare hits record high | Houston & Texas ..

[Iced]

so you're predicting the demise of the united states also? debt, borrow, print money... sound familiar?

again, people have been speculating the demise of medicare for nearly half a century. yet many of its critics took advantage of the program before their deaths. im sure you'll be one of those people.

Eh, it's really economics 101. You can only borrow, tax, and print so much money. It happened to Greece recently and it will happen to the US. The debt-to-GDP ratio recently reached 100% and is climbing to Greek-like levels.

have you watched the documentary 'sicko'? cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world and its free. north korea was once a prosperous country also, until the floods caused famines.

Oh jeez, Sicko is one of the worst propaganda pieces I've ever seen. The average Cuban would have to spend a fortune to buy a bottle of aspirin. Antibiotics are almost nonexistent in the country. The technology and medical equipment is decades behind modern times. Diseases you never see in civilized countries like typhoid fever and leprosy are rampant in Cuba. Doctors are paid like crap. The average citizen barely gets any health care. The hospital that the Cuban government took Michael Moore to was a showcase hospital.

North Korea is just the same. And no, floods didn't cause the famines, government mismanagement of the economy did. Texas is currently experiencing the worst level of drought in decades and they aren't out of water or food. It's because there's a relatively free market in the US and Texas.

again, you just dont like paying taxes yet want everything for free. sounds like a typical neocon.

Lol, now you're just resorting to straw men. Where have I said that I want everything free? I'm not a neoconservative, I'm a libertarian. Nice try though.

The current government can't even mail out letters and you expect them to provide health care.

Now, take a look at some of the best case studies in socialism vs. capitalism:
- North Korea vs. South Korea
- East Germany vs. West Germany
- Maoist China vs. Hong Kong

There's only way for an economy to be run, and that's through the free market.

[crustyme]

You are obviously unaware as to how NPR works. My advice is you type the following terms into google to get a more recent and accurate gauge of how doctors feel about medicare...every result is negative.

Let me help you:

http://tinyurl.com/3jspe6m

how does npr work? are you saying the "Drs. Salomeh Keyhani and Alex Federman of Mount Sinai School of Medicine" are frauds and are really npr employees? i have no idea what the hell you're saying so why don't you just come out and say it instead of speaking in codes?

Here are the results...very consistent with the poll from two years ago you cited


Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com june 2010
Finding a Doctor Who Accepts Medicare Isn't Easy - NYTimes.com april 2009
Potential Medicare payment cuts alarm doctors, hospitals
Potential Medicare payment cuts alarm doctors, hospitals - Boston.com
Are Doctors Really Boycotting Medicare? | The Health Care Blog june 2010
Texas doctors leaving Medicare hits record high | Houston & Texas .. may 2010

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/New...t/Default.aspx june 2011

[Extra Innings]

how does npr work? are you saying the "Drs. Salomeh Keyhani and Alex Federman of Mount Sinai School of Medicine" are frauds and are really npr employees? i have no idea what the hell you're saying so why don't you just come out and say it instead of speaking in codes?




http://www.harrisinteractive.com/New...t/Default.aspx june 2011

You are citing a consumer poll, that is, the respondents are medicare beneficiaries

Sure as hell are not doctors

"Forty-four percent said hospitals should get lower reimbursement fees from Medicare (28 percent were against this idea), and 40 percent said doctors should receive lower reimbursements (33 percent opposed this recommendation)."

[onetrickpony]

fuking nerds settle down its 4 in the morning

fuking dickheads im trying to sleep

[Inkwell77]

I find it hard to take you serious when you say things like " if you believe health care and small business are even close to a top concern in this country I would argue that these issues don't even matter".
20% of the budget is alocated to healthcare. 20%! It is the #1 expense in the US budget at almost $900 million. gotta go, be back in a few

That was a bit vague, I guess what I'm trying to say is the issues are not even close to the top concern because the spending would be way down the list if education and other societal flaws were improved/fixed (and the thing is, informing and promoting life long health is not that hard to fix, a kid develops healthy habits at a young age and continues those habits throughout their life). It's not that hard to stay relatively healthy, but because of various societal practices in place, much too high of a percentage of people in this country have a hard time maintaining standard health.

[crustyme]

Eh, it's really economics 101. You can only borrow, tax, and print so much money. It happened to Greece recently and it will happen to the US. The debt-to-GDP ratio recently reached 100% and is climbing to Greek-like levels.

Oh jeez, Sicko is one of the worst propaganda pieces I've ever seen. The average Cuban would have to spend a fortune to buy a bottle of aspirin. Antibiotics are almost nonexistent in the country. The technology and medical equipment is decades behind modern times. Diseases you never see in civilized countries like typhoid fever and leprosy are rampant in Cuba. Doctors are paid like crap. The average citizen barely gets any health care. The hospital that the Cuban government took Michael Moore to was a showcase hospital.

North Korea is just the same. And no, floods didn't cause the famines, government mismanagement of the economy did. Texas is currently experiencing the worst level of drought in decades and they aren't out of water or food. It's because there's a relatively free market in the US and Texas.

Lol, now you're just resorting to straw men. Where have I said that I want everything free? I'm not a neoconservative, I'm a libertarian. Nice try though.

The current government can't even mail out letters and you expect them to provide health care.

Now, take a look at some of the best case studies in socialism vs. capitalism:
- North Korea vs. South Korea
- East Germany vs. West Germany
- Maoist China vs. Hong Kong

There's only way for an economy to be run, and that's through the free market.

if you think the us will go bankrupt like medicare before you're 65th b-day then you're obviously not too bright. guarantee both will be around long after you're gone.

cubans have a life expectancy of 78 years, higher than americans. now how could this be if they have no medicine and have antiquated equipment? deaths from communicable diseases is actually equal to the us, which shows how advanced their healthcare system is.

cuba is only one of 2 countries (france being the other) with computerized national neworks in blood banks, nephrology and medical images. cuban scientists were also the first to develop a vaccine to meningitis b, which the us obtained from cuba when there was an outbreak here.

to claim cuba is on the level of that of 3rd world countries when it comes to healthcare is ludicrous.

you claimed the government was "stealing" your money. how so? whenever a cop arrests a dangerous criminal, your tax dollar at work. whenever firemen put out a fire threatening 500 homes, your tax dollar at work. whenever your child gets an "a" thanks to the teacher, your tax dollar at work. whenever your elderly relative or neighbor needs medical attention, your tax dollar at work. so how are they stealing?

south korea would be just as bad as its north neighbor had it not been for imf rescuing them in 1997. germany's economy also nearly collapsed in 2008 after a government bailout of its banks. not to mention the our own collapse after bush's 8 years of stupidity.

china, a socialist country, is the 2nd richest country in the world.... which blows your theory out of the water.

[Optional]

I think many Americans forget, or discount, the real benefit of universal health care. Giving people at the bottom of the economic chain some security, and middle class people a lot more security.

The social benefits are enormous.

[Iced]

if you think the us will go bankrupt like medicare before you're 65th b-day then you're obviously not too bright. guarantee both will be around long after you're gone.

The debt-to-GDP ratio of the US in about fifteen years will be at Greece levels. And I'm in my 20s. There's no reason to think the US can continue on this path for over forty years.

cubans have a life expectancy of 78 years, higher than americans

Of course, the books are kept by government bureaucrats. The Soviet health care system was once rated as best by the UN as well. What's stopping Cuban officials from making up numbers just as the Soviets did? The UN doesn't verify their numbers.

cuba is only one of 2 countries (france being the other) with computerized national neworks in blood banks, nephrology and medical images. cuban scientists were also the first to develop a vaccine to meningitis b, which the us obtained from cuba when there was an outbreak here.

Too bad the average Cuban will never see a blood bank or receive medical imaging. There's a privileged section of the hospital and a poor section of the hospital. And can you name any other major advancements in medical tech other than the Meningitis B vaccine? I'm sure sixty years of socialism in Cuba will be able to dwarf the thousands of vaccines and patents invented by researches, scientists, and doctors in the free market of the United States.

to claim cuba is on the level of that of 3rd world countries when it comes to healthcare is ludicrous.

But it is. Typical goods like aspirin and rubbing alchohol that even the poorest of Americans can buy aren't even available to Cubans. Antibiotics aren't available either. Most average Cubans have to bring their own sheets, pillows, and food if they can even get into a hospital bed. If they want air conditioning, they have to bring a fan from home.

you claimed the government was "stealing" your money. how so?

Stealing is defined as the theft of someone's property without their consent. I don't consent to the government taking my money away (taxing) and therefore they are stealing from me. Of course, it's legalized stealing because the government writes the laws.

whenever a cop arrests a dangerous criminal, your tax dollar at work. whenever firemen put out a fire threatening 500 homes, your tax dollar at work. whenever your child gets an "a" thanks to the teacher, your tax dollar at work. whenever your elderly relative or neighbor needs medical attention, your tax dollar at work. so how are they stealing?

Police and fire protection can be privatized. And I go to a private university and I have private health care, so my tax dollars for schooling and medical care are going to people I don't even know and will never meet.

south korea would be just as bad as its north neighbor had it not been for imf rescuing them in 1997.

Vastly expanded argument is necessarily needed. The health and well-being of these two economies and the people that reside in the countries are mountains apart.

germany's economy also nearly collapsed in 2008 after a government bailout of its banks. not to mention the our own collapse after bush's 8 years of stupidity.

You apparently aren't aware of what West and East Germany were. Hint: they no longer exist as West and East Germany. East Germany fell when the Soviet Union fell. (An economic collapse due to socialism.)

china, a socialist country, is the 2nd richest country in the world.... which blows your theory out of the water.

Lol. It's the second biggest economy in the world based on GDP. Except GDP measures government spending so of course China will look like it has a large economy. It also has over a billion people. The people live like crap though. In terms of GDP per capita (per person), China is the 100th richest country in the world. Hong Kong is 10th.

Cuba is 86th. The United States is 9th.

North Korea is 160th. South Korea is 31st.

Where are the people poorer? In socialist countries. Where are the people richer? In capitalist countries.

[crustyme]

The debt-to-GDP ratio of the US in about fifteen years will be at Greece levels. And I'm in my 20s. There's no reason to think the US can continue on this path for over forty years.

us debt to gdp isn't even top 10 worst. in 40 years we may be as bad as japan, but last i checked japan is still on the map.

Of course, the books are kept by government bureaucrats. The Soviet health care system was once rated as best by the UN as well. What's stopping Cuban officials from making up numbers just as the Soviets did? The UN doesn't verify their numbers.

if it's that easy, why don't all the countries lie and claim to have life expectancies of 80, 90 or 100???? yet russia has one of the lowest at 68. w.h.o. comes up with these figures not the governments!

Too bad the average Cuban will never see a blood bank or receive medical imaging. There's a privileged section of the hospital and a poor section of the hospital. And can you name any other major advancements in medical tech other than the Meningitis B vaccine? I'm sure sixty years of socialism in Cuba will be able to dwarf the thousands of vaccines and patents invented by researches, scientists, and doctors in the free market of the United States.

avg cuban lives longer than avg american. who really cares whether they receive imaging or not? obviously, they are doing something right.

how embarrassing for the rich and powerful us to ask little cuba for vaccines, especially in the 1990s?

But it is. Typical goods like aspirin and rubbing alchohol that even the poorest of Americans can buy aren't even available to Cubans. Antibiotics aren't available either. Most average Cubans have to bring their own sheets, pillows, and food if they can even get into a hospital bed. If they want air conditioning, they have to bring a fan from home.

yeah, that's so much worse than being charged $100k+ for a surgery in the us and being in debt for the rest of your life.

Stealing is defined as the theft of someone's property without their consent. I don't consent to the government taking my money away (taxing) and therefore they are stealing from me. Of course, it's legalized stealing because the government writes the laws.

wrong. stealing is when something is taken without receiving anything in return. you're getting police, firemen, mailmen, water delivery, road maintenance, sewage cleanup, garbage pickup, etc. pretty good deal.

Police and fire protection can be privatized. And I go to a private university and I have private health care, so my tax dollars for schooling and medical care are going to people I don't even know and will never meet.

anything can be privatized. but who will pay and when? do you only pay if the serial killer is caught in your neighborhood? what if the forest fire was 2 miles away, who pays? who pays for the pothole if it's in front of your home?

Vastly expanded argument is necessarily needed. The health and well-being of these two economies and the people that reside in the countries are mountains apart.

you don't think there are rich people in north korea living better than all the poor in the south? they're not as far apart as you think they are. again, without the internationl monetary fund, the south's economy would have collapsed. "free economy" doesn't always work.

You apparently aren't aware of what West and East Germany were. Hint: they no longer exist as West and East Germany. East Germany fell when the Soviet Union fell. (An economic collapse due to socialism.)

no sh*t sherlock. many counties fell due to the collapse of the soviet union, since they depended on them for just about everything. just like the rest of world nearly collapsed when our economy did. [/quote]

Lol. It's the second biggest economy in the world based on GDP. Except GDP measures government spending so of course China will look like it has a large economy. It also has over a billion people. The people live like crap though. In terms of GDP per capita (per person), China is the 100th richest country in the world. Hong Kong is 10th.

Cuba is 86th. The United States is 9th.

North Korea is 160th. South Korea is 31st.

Where are the people poorer? In socialist countries. Where are the people richer? In capitalist countries.

lol..... china's debt to gdp is just 19%, while ours is nearly 100%... it makes them richer than us.

[babyjesus]

drum rolll plz

[maersksealand]

Forget about Healthcare and think about inflation and higher taxes