You think America has problems now, Just wait until...

[Cap dat 4ss]

2014!!!

Thats the year the new "Healthcare bill" passes. Oddly enough it's not a healthcare bill at all, it's a health insurance bill. The government plans on providing a public option at a steeply discounted rate. Next, the bill, now law, states that businesses must provide some type of health insurance for it's employees. Now, most small businesses are already just barely skimming a profit off the top and now they're going to be FORCED to provided insurance for ALL employees. The can go with either the government option or the cadillac plan. If they choose to go with the "cadillac" plan they will be hit with an 8% penalty fee. This leads to two MAJOR problems.

1.) The best way for small businesses to prepare for this or deal with this problem is simple, it's to get rid of all of their employees and just take a smaller workload that the owner and a very select few can handle. This will drive unemployment throught the roof.
2.) By offering a steeply discounted option for health insurance and charging an 8% penalty on any employer that chooses to use a private insurance company, ALL companies will basically be forced to choose the public option.

The problem with 2 is that the government is in effect pushing the private providers out of the market completely. Eventually it will be a single payer system. Soon we WILL have nationalized health care. Soon the government will be rationing healthcare, having end-of-life counceling committees and just in general fukking up our healthcare. Now this system CAN work. It works in Germany, Canada, Denmark etc... but I don't think our government is competent enough to run a McDonalds, they WILL fukk this up because of greedy and power hungry politicians. On top of all of this, if you choose not to have insurance you will be hit with a hefty fine

Boys, things are going to get worst here in 2014. Unemployment will skyrocket because employers won't be able to afford health insurance. Some businesses will close down. Unemployment checks will likely quadruple, where the hell is this money going to come from.

Boys get ready. I'm not calling the end by any means, but it will get ugly. Sorry so flighty, I'm at work and had to type this up quick.

[King Mayan]

Unreal cappy.

[Iced]

Agree with everything except this:

Now this system CAN work. It works in Germany, Canada, Denmark etc...

Their health care programs suck, as do any other programs managed by government.

The Obamacare bill is modeled after the Romneycare bill in Massachusetts. As it turns out, Massachusetts has the highest health insurance premiums in the country.

[Cap dat 4ss]

Mayan, I hated to do this but this is a real problem. This public option is going to force higher unemployment rates, freeze hiring and force out the private providers for health insurance. It won't look pretty pal.

[mikeanite]

2014 the economy is going to turn around, book it!

[onetrickpony]

i dont like this cappy not one bit pal

obama has fuked it up for the ppl who never go to the doctors

fuk this ninja

[crustyme]

remember, the same fearmongering occured when medicare was passed in 1965.

reagan claimed it would mark the end of freedom in america.



same tactics currently used by neocons and their large donors in the healthcare industry.

[frostno98]

Millions of incarcerated inmates are already getting free health care without paying a penny, so what's new.

[antifoil]

sounds good to me. if a company can't provide health insurance, they don't need to be in business. the business owners that can adapt will succeed getting more of the local market percentage than the business that can't. the prudent business owner will be able to expand to cover the market left by the business owners that can't. everybody wins.

[Extra Innings]

Agree 100 %. It was clear as day and night to me that companies would have one option...not offer insurance. Did they budget for the plan with 300 million participants

[Iced]

remember, the same fearmongering occured when medicare was passed in 1965.

reagan claimed it would mark the end of freedom in america.



same tactics currently used by neocons and their large donors in the healthcare industry.

Medicare and Medicaid currently make up more than one-fifth of the budget (~$800 trillion) and Medicare faces insolvency by 2024.

What a wonder.

[Extra Innings]

remember, the same fearmongering occured when medicare was passed in 1965.

reagan claimed it would mark the end of freedom in america.



same tactics currently used by neocons and their large donors in the healthcare industry.

Talk to a doctor about how good medicare is

[Cap dat 4ss]

remember, the same fearmongering occured when medicare was passed in 1965. reagan claimed it would mark the end of freedom in america. same tactics currently used by neocons and their large donors in the healthcare industry.

Small businesses will be unsustainable. They will not be able to afford insuring all their employees so 1 of 2 things happen, they either choose the public option and drive out the private sector or they dump all of their employees. This is not fearmongering. It's simple business.

Do you believe that private healthcare providers can compete with a government run public option paid for by tax payers?

[crustyme]

Talk to a doctor about how good medicare is

i didn't but this poll did:

Keyhani says doctors already have experience with government-run health care, with Medicare. And she says the survey shows that, overall, they like it. "We've heard a lot about how the government is standing in between patients and their physician," Keyhani says. "And what we can see is that physicians support Medicare. So I think physicians have sort of signaled that a public option that's similar in design to Medicare would be a good way of ensuring patients get the care that they need."

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/14/NPR-doctors.aspx

[wtf]

sounds good to me. if a company can't provide health insurance, they don't need to be in business. the business owners that can adapt will succeed getting more of the local market percentage than the business that can't. the prudent business owner will be able to expand to cover the market left by the business owners that can't. everybody wins.

have you EVER STARTED a business from nothing, yes or no

this just blocks almost all new businesses from starting and having a chance

[onetrickpony]

have you EVER STARTED a business from nothing, yes or no this just blocks almost all new businesses from starting and having a chance

no he obv hasnt

guy is clueless

get a clue pal

[crustyme]

Medicare and Medicaid currently make up more than one-fifth of the budget (~$800 trillion) and Medicare faces insolvency by 2024.

What a wonder.

they've been facing insolvency since 1970, according to board of trustees. but they've been wrong at least 24 times.



regardless, reagan couldn't have been more wrong when he claimed it would be the end of freedom in america.

[antifoil]

oh i don't care to start a business or own a business. i also don't care if any new business are created or ones in existence destroyed because they have to offer insurance. i do care if i have health insurance or not.

the businesses that can't handle it will simply be replace by ones that can. it's like evolution.

[antifoil]

if are not willing to adapt or not smart enough to adapt then you lose. why should i care? i will just go work for the guy down the street eating up all of your market shares.

[Iced]

they've been facing insolvency since 1970, according to board of trustees. but they've been wrong at least 24 times.

Well, obviously. It can continue indefinitely as long as we continue to tax and borrow against the future. Politicians will continue to tax and borrow until we either (a) default or (b) run out of rich people to tax. That's what happened in Greece.

regardless, reagan couldn't have been more wrong when he claimed it would be the end of freedom in america.

I'm not really a big Reagan fan, but it has definitely lead to a decline in freedom. I wouldn't call Medicare the sole destroyer of freedom, but it has contributed to it.

[crustyme]

Small businesses will be unsustainable. They will not be able to afford insuring all their employees so 1 of 2 things happen, they either choose the public option and drive out the private sector or they dump all of their employees. This is not fearmongering. It's simple business.

Do you believe that private healthcare providers can compete with a government run public option paid for by tax payers?

which is why the 'small business health care tax credit' was enacted to offset the costs.

[crustyme]

Well, obviously. It can continue indefinitely as long as we continue to tax and borrow against the future. Politicians will continue to tax and borrow until we either (a) default or (b) run out of rich people to tax. That's what happened in Greece.


I'm not really a big Reagan fan, but it has definitely lead to a decline in freedom. I wouldn't call Medicare the sole destroyer of freedom, but it has contributed to it.

bush passed the medicare prescription drug modernization act of 2003 which added $400 billion to the cost. then stole $1.3 trillion from social security to fund his little war. no wonder it's not in the best shape.

how has medicare taken away your freedom? because old people get the health care they need you are not free?

overall, medicare has been a successful program for its 46 year history and has not led to freedom being taken away and us becoming communist. reagan was a senile kook even back then.

[phillybadboy]

crustyme what ever happened with the mlb thread, you ever get to 150units?

[Iced]

bush passed the medicare prescription drug modernization act of 2003 which added $400 billion to the cost. then stole $1.3 trillion from social security to fund his little war. no wonder it's not in the best shape.

I don't like Bush either.

how has medicare taken away your freedom? because old people get the health care they need you are not free?

No, because I'm forced to pay for something I don't want to pay for.

overall, medicare has been a successful program for its 46 year history and has not led to freedom being taken away and us becoming communist. reagan was a senile kook even back then.

Medicare is successful for the people that have already died. People like me and you will never see Medicare. It's broke.

[Extra Innings]

i didn't but this poll did:

Keyhani says doctors already have experience with government-run health care, with Medicare. And she says the survey shows that, overall, they like it. "We've heard a lot about how the government is standing in between patients and their physician," Keyhani says. "And what we can see is that physicians support Medicare. So I think physicians have sort of signaled that a public option that's similar in design to Medicare would be a good way of ensuring patients get the care that they need."


http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stor...R-doctors.aspx

Well I am in the field and every doctor I have talked to thinks it's garbage...similiar to Medicaid but since were pulling random cites from "news" organization such as NPR (check the editors for your cite)...I'll offer you one from the New York Times

Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

p.s. I'll give you 12 points if you can tell me why The American Medical Association backed the public option.

[paco]

This shit hurts my head.

[Inkwell77]

If you believe health care and small business are even close to a top concern in this country I would argue that these issues don't even matter.

In this country we spend millions of dollars a day on prisons and jails. We have kids growing up in terrible families who will to grow up and commit crime and end up in jail and cost the country billions, all the while that spending could be prevented with a more efficient society. But no one wants to talk and put measures in place to improve the actual people of this country, we are much more concerned with some bs laws.

I guess I don't really understand the thinking of people who care about some health care bills. Do you not want the country to be a better place? You got to look at the true problems, and that is education and how we are raising the kids in this country. We would save billions in health care each year if people were healthier, but that is not happening and this country continues to get fatter and unhealthier. We would save hundreds of billions if every kid grew up in a stable home environment with a loving family, with financial stability, and a quality education. That is not happening.

The jokers in politics care more about some random business tax and some ridiculous health care bill that both mean nothing.

[Cap dat 4ss]

Well I am in the field and every doctor I have talked to thinks it's garbage...similiar to Medicaid but since were pulling random cites from "news" organization such as NPR (check the editors for your cite)...I'll offer you one from the New York Times Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/bu.../02health.html p.s. I'll give you 12 points if you can tell me why The American Medical Association backed the public option.

Great post EI. What you say about doctors not accepting medicare patients is true. Our surgeons have already began declining medicare patients.

If you believe health care and small business are even close to a top concern in this country I would argue that these issues don't even matter. In this country we spend millions of dollars a day on prisons and jails. We have kids growing up in terrible families who will to grow up and commit crime and end up in jail and cost the country billions, all the while that spending could be prevented with a more efficient society. But no one wants to talk and put measures in place to improve the actual people of this country, we are much more concerned with some bs laws. I guess I don't really understand the thinking of people who care about some health care bills. Do you not want the country to be a better place? You got to look at the true problems, and that is education and how we are raising the kids in this country. We would save billions in health care each year if people were healthier, but that is not happening and this country continues to get fatter and unhealthier. We would save hundreds of billions if every kid grew up in a stable home environment with a loving family, with financial stability, and a quality education. That is not happening. The jokers in politics care more about some random business tax and some ridiculous health care bill that both mean nothing.

I find it hard to take you serious when you say things like " if you believe health care and small business are even close to a top concern in this country I would argue that these issues don't even matter".
20% of the budget is alocated to healthcare. 20%! It is the #1 expense in the US budget at almost $900 million. gotta go, be back in a few

[crustyme]

I don't like Bush either.


No, because I'm forced to pay for something I don't want to pay for.


Medicare is successful for the people that have already died. People like me and you will never see Medicare. It's broke.

people have been predicting the demise of medicare for 46 years. but many were glad when they turned 65 and took advantage of it before their deaths. so will you.

as for paying for it, im sure you don't want to pay taxes of any kind. so you're no different than anyone else. but just like cops, firemen, etc. ,that are supported by taxes, you will be glad you paid when you turn 65 and need healthcare.

[crustyme]

Well I am in the field and every doctor I have talked to thinks it's garbage...similiar to Medicaid but since were pulling random cites from "news" organization such as NPR (check the editors for your cite)...I'll offer you one from the New York Times

Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

p.s. I'll give you 12 points if you can tell me why The American Medical Association backed the public option.

what does npr have to do with anything? unless they conducted the poll.

how about straight from the mouth of the pollsters themselves?

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/mid/1508/articleId/816/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/Default.aspx

the poll shows that doctors love medicare and oppose privatizing it. your unofficial "poll" probably was a small sample in comparison.

i dont need your pts, i already have a migrain trying to give all mine away.

[Extra Innings]

The AMA supports the Public Option because it has a clause that Medicare reimbursement rates would remain untouched.

[Extra Innings]

what does npr have to do with anything? unless they conducted the poll.

how about straight from the mouth of the pollsters themselves?

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/mid/1508/articleId/816/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/Default.aspx

the poll shows that doctors love medicare and oppose privatizing it. your unofficial "poll" probably was a small sample in comparison.

i dont need your pts, i already have a migrain trying to give all mine away.

They are two different polls measuring two different things

The original one was a poll conducted by a website. That like me saying Obama has a 95% dissapproval rating according the latest Fox News Poll

The second poll is about privatizing Medicare...it has nothing to do with doctors
What doctor would say this, "the respondents felt the program should be shored up, in part, by lowering the fees paid to drug companies, hospitals and doctors-and not by raising costs to consumers."

[Extra Innings]

Great post EI. What you say about doctors not accepting medicare patients is true. Our surgeons have already began declining medicare patients.

I wouldn't be surprised if they started floating legislation that in order to have a license you have to accept Medicare.

[crustyme]

They are two different polls measuring two different things

The original one was a poll conducted by a website. That like me saying Obama has a 95% dissapproval rating according the latest Fox News Poll

The second poll is about privatizing Medicare...it has nothing to do with doctors
What doctor would say this, "the respondents felt the program should be shored up, in part, by lowering the fees paid to drug companies, hospitals and doctors-and not by raising costs to consumers."

what part of npr did not conduct the poll do you not understand?

"The survey was designed and conducted by Drs. Salomeh Keyhani and Alex Federman of Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Over the summer of 2009, they surveyed a random sample of more than 2,000 physicians."




i merely posted the polls to show how satisfied doctors were of medicare and how they did not want to privatize or eliminate it as you claim according to your unofficial/undocumated/unpublished/unverified poll.

[Iced]

people have been predicting the demise of medicare for 46 years. but many were glad when they turned 65 and took advantage of it before their deaths. so will you.

Like I said before, the demise of Medicare has only been temporarily extended. Taxing, borrowing, and printing money can only work for so long.

as for paying for it, im sure you don't want to pay taxes of any kind. so you're no different than anyone else. but just like cops, firemen, etc. ,that are supported by taxes, you will be glad you paid when you turn 65 and need healthcare.

Police and fire protection can be privatized, I don't like my money being forced into them either. When I reach 65, which is a long time away, I doubt Medicare will be there. These programs are unsustainable. Governments can not manage anything. Their mismanagement inevitably leads to widespread poverty. You can look at the economies with the most government control of the health sector and see how it is: Cuba, North Korea, Greece, etc. There is no pricing mechanism, no profit motive, no incentives, and no real cap on spending.

I can manage my money better than government can, and I'd much appreciate it if government didn't steal my money so that I actually will be able to pay for my own health care when I am 65. Like Harry Browne said: Government is good at one thing: It knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, "See, if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk."