It's been said time and time again, that Phil Jackson only won because he had the best talent that was around at the time. Now that he is on the brink of losing his second Finals appearance in (both 5 games). Is what has been said about him before true? Was he just a lucky man that was in the right place at the right time?
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Nobody wins without talent. Nobody.
Red Auerbach had the best talent when Russell and Co. were winning 11 titles in 13 years.
Phil's got nine rings. Yes, I know he got them with MJ, Shaq and Kobe. But there is something to be said for getting all those multi-millionaire cry-babies to play together when there is only one basketball to go around.
But who has won the NBA title in recent memory without talent?
Pop is a great coach in SA, maybe the best in the NBA, but he's had talent, too.
Larry Brown is a great coach. Won a national title in college and the NBA title. He had talent, too. How much did he win with the Knicks? How much will he win with the Bobcats next year.
Nobody wins without talent. Nobody.
DocComment -
Big difference between having talent and having the best in the game at the time. Did Detroit have the best player in the game when they won the title with Larry Brown? Nope. How about the Miami Heat? Nope. Phil Jackson? MJ-best in the game. Shaq-best in the game. Kobe-best in the game. All in their peaks when Jackson got to coach them.Comment -
He's probably overrated, but perhaps rightfully so. He may be a lucky mofo, but he still has 9 rings -- he's got to be doing something right. I'd say he's a top 3 coach in the league, right in there with Pops (and maybe Sloan or Riles?). He hasn't done anything yet, but I like Nate McMillan so far. However, he's going to have a boatload of talent for the next 10 years if he manages it right, so maybe anyone could take a loaded Portland team to the Finals.Comment -
I'm just not a big Phil Jackson fan. I think he's way to arrogant and treats people as if they aren't on his level. He has his rings and I know he's a good coach, but is he worth the 10/mil a year the Lakers are paying him? Not in my opinion. I can think of 3 coaches I would rather have just off the top of my head: Popovich, Sloan, and Byron Scott.Comment -
and detroit won last when?Originally posted by Panic
nobody even thought the lakers had a chance this year. If they had Bynum they would win more than likely.Comment -
Having the best player guarentees nothing. (don't get me wrong, it sure doesn't hurt to have the best player in the game on your team.) Doug Collins didn't win any NBA titles and he got to coach MJ. And the Lakers wouldn't have gotten as far as they did this season if Memphis hadn't handed Gasol to them for $24 worth of trinkets.Originally posted by Panic
Has Phil been very, very fortunate to coach MJ, Shaq, and Kobe...Absolutely. But at the end of the day, he still has nine rings and only one other guy in the history of the NBA can say that.
DocComment -
With ya, Doc. I guess maybe a better way to state things is this: I feel there are better coaches in the league than Phil, even though he is the highest paid coach and has 9 rings. I know he's got talent, I just think he isn't the be all to end all that some people think he is.Comment -
I don't think you can over-rate all those rings. Granted, he had the best ballplayer of this generation in Jordan - and had a dominant bigman with shaq as well as kobe together. I don't think there's better talent to be had - however, it takes a team to win a championship - or at least keep you in the game. You can't look past all the scrubby bench players and role players that worked in the system and made plays. Sure Jordan or Kobe can take over a game - but they can't do it alone.
To me, that's great coaching. It always takes a team. I will say, however, in this era, Popovich is the best. He gets more from his teams than anyone. Also, his teams don't make dumb mistakes often at all - they're very well schooled and disciplined. That is also the mark of a great coach.Comment -
Phil did sit on his ass as the Lakers were in the process of blowing a 20-pt. 3Q lead, right? I mean, that game did really happen, right? Yeah, I'd say that doesn't speak too highly of him.Comment -
Kobe should have tried like hell to drive to the rim every last possession in 4th Q, no jumpers period. Then again, with the intense scrutiny Stern+refs are under right now, refs may have bit the whistle a bit more than usual. In a fair world, he could've drawn a bunch more fouls at the end, but I think being a finals game and the FBI thing refs weren't going to award a plethora of FT shots and hand the game over.Comment -
is Kobe really the best player in the game?
He looked tired last night, Boston has him really pinned inComment -
You win with players.
Phil Jackson has had a host of talent to work with over the years.
In the bulls prime (90's), Jordan could have been the player/coach - they had
a "well oiled machine".Comment -
They had him locked down.Originally posted by jjgold
The clowns who like to bring up the Jordan vs. Kobe debate can leave it
rest for awhile.
Kobe tries to be like Mike.
Kobe, there is only one Michael Jordan.Comment -
Agreed, MJ wasn't even the better athlete in a lot of these player vs MJ debates. He was just a killer, always in sixth gear on both ends.Originally posted by SlickFazzerComment -
I haven't been a Phil fan since he quit coaching to write that tell-all book about the players he coached. That was low. I was stunned when Kobe hired him back.Originally posted by McBa1n
I'd have to vote overrated too. You could argue he had the top 3 players of the modern NBA. Not to mention he lost with that dream team to the Pistons where Kobe disappeared.Comment -
Part of his success is when he is calm and relaxed the whole game, nor matter what scenaro his team is in, and because of that, it relaxes the team. However now he is dealing with a newly put together, young team so his normal approach cant be leveled out with such a high level of talent he had when winning those rings.Comment -
Panic,Originally posted by Panic
I agree that Phil isn't the be all end all. Personally, I think Pop and Sloan are the two best coaches in the league, for my money.
DocComment -
great coach, red auerbach brought up earlier, both guys needed great talent to win, no one wins without great talent, except maybe larry brown, can anyone ever think of a worse nba team than philly '01 that ever made the nba finals?Comment -
Always been overrated in my book ,Good coach no doubt but not great..Comment -
While I acknowledge that LB is a great coach, I think Philly making the NBA finals was more a function of just how bad the east was that year as opposed to how great a coach Larry Brown is/was.Originally posted by hoopster42
LB didn't win anything with the Knicks (I'm not sure God could win with the Knicks) and Brown isn't going to win much next season with the Bobcats, either.Comment -
He's a great coach, Doc has the point, takes talent.Comment -
Who said Kobe tries to be like Mike? Kobe tries to be Kobe. The guy is just as dedicated and works just as hard, and because of that, he is as good as he is today. Respect the guy for that. He worked to get to this level, so to bash on him for trying to be like Mike is absurd.Originally posted by SlickFazzerComment -
watch the '96 draft and you will see when kobe steps to the stage, he is walking, smiling, chewing gum, speaking, all exactly like michael did, he has tried to emulate the great mj in many many ways, and believe it, he wants to be considered the greatest of all time more than anything else in life, and he knows very well that mj is considered the greatest ever by just about everyoneOriginally posted by The_KidComment
