IWager

**Bill Dozer** · 08-30-05, 07:16 PM

Hi Pete,

I sent your email to Raffi yesterday. Like most Sportingbet issues this will take a while to be hashed out but hopefully they can show you where the violation was or send you your winnings in full.

Thus far it is clear that Iwager has no idea what took place with your account and will have to get some answers from Boss media, who is their poker provider.

Keep me posted here or via email so that we all have the most up to date info. I will give Iwager a buzz tomorrow.

**pags11** · 08-31-05, 04:09 AM

keep me updated on this...

**jjgold** · 08-31-05, 06:02 AM

Still very risky and possible collussion here

**jentude** · 08-31-05, 10:11 AM

I have heard about this before, i think on this site? Too many of these sportsbooks do nothing to take control of the poker rooms they lease! If they don't at least give you a detailed explanation then something is up. Pistol did they say you were colluding, or just chip dumping?

**iWager** · 08-31-05, 12:11 PM

Raffi

My name is Raffi and I am the owner of iWager. First of all we are a Sportingbet site
which means we are honest and give players a fair deal. This is the 2nd time this has taken place
in our poker room. This player was accused of cheating which we take very seriously. Boss Media who owns and runs the poker room is putting together the proof and I will be more then happy to post it here if I am allowed. He was never told by our staff that this hapens a lot and that it would be fixed shortly. The incident that triggered them closing his account was not a heads up match. He also mentions playing with Paradise poker and never running into this. Paradise Poker is also owned by Sportingbet so just like our site they opperate with honesty and integrity.
Chip dumping is a serious offense. It makes it unfair for all of the other players sitting around waiting for hands. Regardless of tourny or ring game its unfair and we will always do whatever we can to stop players that try this.

**Bill Dozer** · 08-31-05, 12:50 PM

This is the 2nd time this has taken place in our poker room. This player was accused of cheating which we take very seriously. Boss Media who owns and runs the poker room is putting together the proof and I will be more then happy to post it here if I am allowed.

Hello Raffi,

I know Pete's biggest concern was establishing communication with someone who could address his issue. In both instances the players complained of not being offered an explanation. Hopefully this can be worked out as Susan's case was.

Please let us know when the report is available and we can take it from there.

Thanks

**marc** · 08-31-05, 03:09 PM

I have no idea what occured in this case, but here is some good advice to people who play in poker rooms.

1) If you recieve a bonus, espcially a refferal bonus, don't play heads up agianst someone. That is a husge red flag. IAnd if you play heads up agianst someone who reffered you, you are begging for trouble.

2) Be very careful about playing at the same table with people that you know. e.g. neighbors, people who live in the same zip code, people with the same last night, people with the same ip address. Poker sites don't want collusion. They don't want people on IM saying hey "I hit my flush, lets raise it up". Just like a land casino, is wathcing for cheats, and sometimes honest people get accused of cheating (though rarely), online casnos do the same thing. Be smart, and don't do things that will raise eyebrows.

**pags11** · 08-31-05, 03:48 PM

still sound fishy...

**jjgold** · 08-31-05, 03:49 PM

Its very Fishy

**jentude** · 08-31-05, 04:44 PM

Bill, how long has it been since this issue started? How does raffi not have an explanation yet to give pistol? I think if your going to let people who know each other play they have to have commen sense rules. I know pp doesnt let you play against anyone you are related to that they can tell, and about the earler post about referals, why wouldt you want to play against the person you referred, isnt that why they give you money, to get new people to thier site, people want to beat their friends just like at home, so i think that part is bs, if you say red flag on referrels. In fact if you were new to a site i would want to play against someone i know

**Pistol Pete** · 08-31-05, 05:22 PM

Raffi why is that this issue has been almost a month and boss media is still putting together the evidence? If the evidence is still not put together then why was my money kept before anyone even had proof? IM sorry but to tell me i should not play my brother on a site is crazy. I live in Texas and he lives in Ohio. When i go home we play against each other and the rest of my family, we play in real casino against each other and online. Raffi if the accusation you made that I commited such a serious offence while playing with my brother, then why did you still pay him his $2000 withdraw? Why is his sportsbook account still open while mine has been shut down? If both of us were chip dumping why am I the only one gettin his winning kept?

To the observers there was no collusion going on. We were playing heads up. They emailed my brother this email giving him these examples of us "Chip dumping" Mind you that they never mailed me this.
round

83739387

2
Date/time

Data

3
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) made a buyin of $467

4
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) has blindstate postsmall

5
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) made a buyin of $220

6
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) has blindstate postlarge

7
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) is dealer

8
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) paid ante/blind of $5

9
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) paid ante/blind of $10
10
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) got card: five of spades

11
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) got card: ace of hearts

12
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) got card: nine of clubs

13
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) got card: seven of spades

14
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) called $5

15
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) checked

16
10/8/05 0:12

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: nine of diamonds

17
10/8/05 0:12

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: queen of clubs

18
10/8/05 0:12

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: nine of spades

19
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) checked

20
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) betted $30

21
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) called $30

22
10/8/05 0:12

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: five of clubs

23
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) checked

24
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) checked

25
10/8/05 0:12

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: king of hearts

26
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) checked

27
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) betted $110

28
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) called $110

29
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) raised $110

30
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) went all in with $70

31
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) was all-in adjusted $-40

32
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) Showdown action

33
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'erosthanos' (5) Showdown action

34
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) won $437

35
36
round

83739055

37
Date/time

Data

38
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) made a buyin of $390

39
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) has blindstate postlarge

40
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) made a buyin of $300

41
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) has blindstate postsmall

42
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) is dealer

43
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) paid ante/blind of $10

44
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) paid ante/blind of $5

45
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) got card: king of clubs

46
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) got card: three of hearts

47
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) got card: queen of clubs

48
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) got card: four of clubs

49
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) called $5

50
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) checked

51
10/8/05 0:11

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: two of hearts

52
10/8/05 0:11

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: nine of clubs

53
10/8/05 0:11

Table 'Table TH 361' got community card: ace of hearts

54
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) betted $70

55
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) went all in with $380

56
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'erosthanos' (5) folded

57
10/8/05 0:11

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) was all-in adjusted $-310

58
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) Showdown action

59
10/8/05 0:12

Player 'HIJKLMNOP' (3) won $157

If these two example give them definite evidence of us chip dumping then im glad they do not run our legal system. Raffi said it was not from heads up play and that we effected other players yet the two examples they emailed my brother were these from heads up play.

**Bill Dozer** · 08-31-05, 07:44 PM

Jentude,

This is a prime example of how Sportingbet sites work. They have a ton of players and do not intend to cheat them but the left hand doesn't always communicate with the right. Resolving these issues can take months unless a manager is directly involved. When you add in a third party poker service, it can be even messier. The potential for these issues is why most SBT sites have not surpassed the C- rating.

Many of the sites do not have active owners/investors like Raffi. They are often silent partners. When an owner offers to get involved it can be the quickest way to resolve a complaint (versus going through general CS). Although the last player waited two months for a resolution, I would say that Raffi helped push it along and made sure Boss either provided proof or paid the player. The player was paid after the lengthy delay.

**jentude** · 09-03-05, 02:12 PM

Bill, in your estimation how many sportsbooks that have poker rooms run their own? I know olympic does. It doesnt seem to make any sense for these sites to not be able to tell the player or you within a couple of days what the trouble with the player was, not just saying chip dumping. I know i can have a hand history in 5 min why cant they get one to you or pistol that proves their point?

**square** · 09-03-05, 03:06 PM

Michael Rinnier

found out that "Little PUKE'S" real name is Michael Rinnier and he is from Phili.....

apparently he put his costarican company out of business too to avoid paying a lot of costaricans $ that he has owed them for years. I would stay away from that place.

Originally posted by Pistol Pete

I am posting this so hoepfully no one will run into the same problems that I have. If you are a memeber of iwager or have played in their poker room please read this! My brother told me about iwager and introduced me to their poker room so i made deposit and began playing. I played a few times heads up against my brother and then mostly ten person tables by myself. I made a withdraw and recieved it in 2 days so i figured this place was legit. Within the next few day i made more deposits and made 2 withdraws for $2850. Well within a week of having my account open they had locked both mine and my brothers accounts. They said their 3rd party poker software triggered us chip dumping. My brother spoke to a lady and was told this has happed alot and they fix it pretty fast and his withdraw for $2000 was still being sent. So i figured ok no big deal. So i waited and waited for my withdraws and nothing came. I emailed, chatted with employees, and called and was given the run around and told it was being processed still. I spoke to a manager and he told me the poker was holding my money and i needed to write them and they would fix it. I wrote them and the next day went to log into my sportsbook account and that was locked. I called and spoker to a manager and was told my withdraws were being kept and the decision was final. They said I was chip dumping and would recieve my deposits back on my credit card but not the other money i had won. They would not provide me any evidence or proof of chip dumping just kept my money. They said I was chip dumping with my brother when we played heads up? Yet even though they kept my money they sent my brother his $2000. Me and my brother live in seperate states so we play alot online sometimes against each other. We have played at UltimateBet, Bodog and Paradise and have never run into crap like this. To accuse someone of cheating and to keep their money without proof or evidence is wrong and completely unprofessional. I hope this helps prevent someone else from gettin screwed over by iwager because it does not matter if its poker, casino, or sportsbook everone there will pass the blame and say how its a seperate party and give no straight answers until they take your money and tell you the decision is final and its managements decision.

**jentude** · 09-03-05, 10:47 PM

what in the hell does that last post mean?

**Mudcat** · 09-03-05, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by jentude

what in the hell does that last post mean?

Okay good. I'm not the only one that didn't understand.

**Bill Dozer** · 09-04-05, 02:13 AM

Yeah, I feel like I should 'moderate' this thread somehow but was waiting for someone else to tell me what is going on.

Maybe we will see if square can elaborate before we put this thread back on the Iwager Poker track.

**pags11** · 09-04-05, 04:16 AM

Bill...what's up bud?...hope you're having a good weekend...never mentioned to you that I like the whole fire marshall Bill thing...

**marc** · 09-04-05, 12:56 PM

Let me try to explain why poker rooms don't want firends who reffered one another to play heads up for real money.
Lets say I refer Bill to Party Poker. Bill gets a sign up bonus, I get a referal bonus. Now the bonus is suppose to be an incentive for a player to try out the book. And the referal bonuses are supposed to be an incentive to convince your friends to to sign up. AT the same time, the poker rooms, casinos, and sportsbooks, all wnat a fair chance to win back the money.

If Bill and I were to go heads up, I could very easily and quickly win all of Bills chips, with very few raked hands. So Bill deposits $1000, and now he's at 0, and I'm at +1090 + referal bonus. If i was a scammer, I could sned Bill the $1000 back under the table., and now I've made $90 + referal bonus risk free.

Its a common scam, that poker rooms are on the lookout for. If you want to play your brother, or your friends heads up, play fro fake money, and settle up with real money later. But the poker rooms will not give you bonuses for playing with your friends and family.

**SBR_John** · 09-04-05, 01:28 PM

Someone needs to start a poker player advocate site. Hmm.. :105084828

Anyway, I wish I knew what was really going on here. Personally, I'd love to play with some fvcks that think they can beat me by chip dumping. I mean they know what they have..OK fine, but they dont know what I have.

**Pistol Pete** · 09-04-05, 03:45 PM

marc i understand what your saying but when i made my withdraws i never recieved the bonus. I had to keep money in my account because the bonus was never roled over. So i mean i just dont understand if I didnt get a bonus or anything what the problem is when there still making money gettin the rake. Also my brother never got referal bonus the only deposit i recieved was the deposit bonus that everyone gets there.

**jentude** · 09-05-05, 04:52 PM

Bill have you heard anything new on Pistols issue? From the hand history he showed on here i dont see anything but heads up play, like i said earlier I don't see why they can't have the info for you the first day you ask for it bill? Am I wrong to think that. Every poker site i play at i can get my hand history right away, so why dont they have his suspicious hand history yet?

**marc** · 09-05-05, 06:43 PM

PP,

The problem in this case, is that Iwager is using a third party, Boss MEdia, to provide the poker room. So Boss media designs thier fraud software, to llok for certain pattersn of play. So eventhough in your case, they should have been more than happy to let you play against your brother and take the rake, that type of play, might still get flagged. And then you hvae an even worse problem. Both SBt, of whihc Iwager is a part of, and Boss Media, both seem far more interested in preventing fraud than they are in providing quality service. It's almost as if they'd rather see 100 honest players suffer, than see 1 scammer get away. I'm sure if we keep pressing Raffi, he will eventually get this straightened out. But between SBT and Boss Media it could take some time.

**Illusion** · 09-07-05, 11:09 AM

IWager

SBR Bill Dozer reports: IWager (SBR rating C-) again freezing player’s account balance for over one month after the player is suspected of "chip dumping" in the poker room. Iwager has not offered a valid reason for freezing the players account and emails have gone unreturned during the past week. The previous player to experience a similar issue was paid after a 2 month wait.

**jentude** · 09-07-05, 01:35 PM

Hope you get some resolution for this Pistol, was reading the problem the lady had with I wager, seems they can't get their act together. Good luck with this Bill

**jentude** · 09-07-05, 01:37 PM

Hope the front page info helps pistol out!

see now im chip dumping

**jentude** · 09-07-05, 01:38 PM

dammit i thought that was gonna show the poker chip, not a face ahhhhhhh

**jentude** · 09-13-05, 05:45 AM

Hey Bill, is there any update on this situation?

**jentude** · 09-18-05, 07:55 AM

Any updates to be heard from that rafi guy? I would like to see their side of the story!

**iWager** · 09-23-05, 02:55 AM

I will be speaking with Boss Media on Mon and will have this resolved. For all of you that read this forum just remember we have thousands of people that play poker through our site and we have had 2 complaints. The fact is when a company does a lot of business they will get some complaints. I bet there is a lot of companies out there that wish they only had 2 complaints. Also Pete says he did not get any bonus which is not true. We give a 15% cash bonus on reloads so we do look out for people trying to abuse it and an obvious way would be to dump the chips to a friend and not worry about raked hands and rollovers. I will make another post next week but rest assured I am a hands on owner and I will always make sure I respond to peoples concerns and make sure they are resolved. Sometimes they do take a whileas I am dealing with 2 other companies but all issues WILL be resolved.

**FreddeSwe** · 09-23-05, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by iWager

I will be speaking with Boss Media on Mon and will have this resolved. For all of you that read this forum just remember we have thousands of people that play poker through our site and we have had 2 complaints. The fact is when a company does a lot of business they will get some complaints. I bet there is a lot of companies out there that wish they only had 2 complaints. Also Pete says he did not get any bonus which is not true. We give a 15% cash bonus on reloads so we do look out for people trying to abuse it and an obvious way would be to dump the chips to a friend and not worry about raked hands and rollovers. I will make another post next week but rest assured I am a hands on owner and I will always make sure I respond to peoples concerns and make sure they are resolved. Sometimes they do take a whileas I am dealing with 2 other companies but all issues WILL be resolved.

With only two complaints why do you not try to solve this issues immediately then to avoid bad publicity? But guess that customer service is not a priority for Sportingbet (and might not be for iwager either) as I got experience from (can read that in another thread).

Still, does not make sense to play heads up for real money when you can use playmoney and resolve errands later. Why give away rake to poker site when not necessary unless you want to get raked hands so that you can withdraw your bonus later.

**jentude** · 09-23-05, 05:31 AM

Nice to finally see something being done on this issue! As i said in earlier posts they should have been able to resolve this in a much more timelier fashion.

**jjgold** · 09-23-05, 06:24 AM

Good post I-Wager and I can see when many players playing always going to have a complaint once in a while

Good Luck

**Pistol Pete** · 09-23-05, 12:35 PM

Guys let me clear something up for you who do not know about iwagers poker room. It is not partypoker where they have millions of players. I opened my account and only played 5-10 no limit. The entire time i played 5-10 nl about they highest limit they have there. There are only about 30-40 players the entire time i played that play that high of a limit. So to completely avoid playing my brother is not as easy as u think. Second I did recieve bonus deposits but never recieved any of that money in my withdraws because I hadn't rolled over the bonus yet so the only money I withdrew was money I made at the tables. My account was only open one week before they shut it down, so cheating to get bonuses was never an issue, i dont give a damn about the bonus I only want my money. I just want you guys to imagine your accounts been closed almsot two months ago they decide you cheated and wont give u your money. Now almost two months later they still do not have the evidence to show me how i cheated? Is this alittle strange to anyone else? Thanks everyone for reading this long ass post and thanks againg Bill for your constant support in this issue.