Input on a dispute

[Justin7]

A sharp player opens an account, and has his limits severely limited. In succession, he opens 3 additional accounts under the names of family members. Each account in sequence makes the same style of bets, and has the limits lowered.

On the 4th account, the book identifies this account as related to the other 3. The book cancels the player's winnings, and refunds the deposit.

Fair or foul: Can a player use a family member's identity to circumvent reduced limits?

[SSLP]

Justin

I think you know what EVERYONE that works at a book would say.

He was pushing it.

I would ban him and if there were any winnings delete them and send the money back.

[JBC77]

I would say foul. One account per household if I'm not mistaken at many books. Clear attempt to circumvent lowered limits. Just my 2 cents.

[SexyMit]

Well when you get that good you are banned from betting anywhere. So you have to do what you have to do... I would have done the same thing to try and get around it also but I would have bet differently and kept it hidin a little better though. I wish I knew enough to be considered a SHARP. I am working on it but a long way from it. lol

[AgainstAllOdds]

I would say if he had those family memebers permission...yes...if not no...still a shady thing to do but if I opened up an account for my bro at the same book I played at and he said I could put in bets under his name....I dont see the problem...

[Richkas]

Foul Ball

[BGS 9.5]

A sharp player opens an account, and has his limits severely limited. In succession, he opens 3 additional accounts under the names of family members. Each account in sequence makes the same style of bets, and has the limits lowered.

On the 4th account, the book identifies this account as related to the other 3. The book cancels the player's winnings, and refunds the deposit.

Fair or foul: Can a player use a family member's identity to circumvent reduced limits?

Absolutely not. Isn't this in most books fineprint? I always presumed this was taken for granted, as it is a blatent attempt around an "unspoken" rule.

[SSLP]

aka beards

not many books like them

[Francis Sollozzo]

imo , should've paid him the winnings plus deposits then show him the door

[dwaechte]

Absolutely foul and I think the book acted 100% in the right.

[Red_Sux]

doesn't all 4 accounts have similar personal info? book should always honor its wagers because he did bet it fairly. the book should just pay the person and give him the boot.

[Francis Sollozzo]

doesn't all 4 accounts have similar personal info? book should always honor its wagers because he did bet it fairly. the book should just pay the person and give him the boot.

yup , if the 4 accts had gone on a losing streak you think the book would say "you are breaking our rules and all bets are void and we'll return them" ?

[HedgeHog]

So many variables! Is he using the same IP for all accounts? If so, is there a rule concerning IP usage. Also, are different addresses used for each account? If not, is there a household limitation in effect? Is the Book seizing the one winning account w/o refunding the losing accounts (can't have it both ways!). Really need more info, here.

[tomcowley]

He has to get paid, at a minimum, the winnings in full from the first account plus the other deposits, no matter what.

[Nicky Santoro]

i didn't even read the other answers, because it's useless.

You book the bet, you pay the bet.. then after that, you can close their accts or do what you want with them..

There is no discussion here. Had the guy lost 26 bets in a row, then they find out, will they reimburse all his money??

These fu-ckin books get on my nerves. they always try every angle they can find not to pay a player. I can't name you how many books have pulled stunts like this on me.


Don't let me get into my SBG GLOBAL story because i wont stop.. The more i think of it, the more it aggravates me. That f-ckin stiff shop..

[WileOut]

Only payout winnings from the original account and payout the original deposit from the original account.

Keep the winnings from the other accounts and any other deposits made under those names used to try to cheat the book.

Close all accounts.

[bettilimbroke999]

I agree Nicky pay the dude his money, never have understood books being able to "limit" certain players anyway, I mean do you have to take the "wrong side" of a bet to be a customer, if you are making intelligent bets do you get penalized, wtf this shit should not be allowed in the first place. If you put a line out there you allow players to bet either side, to bet steam, to middle, which is why they get +110 when they win and we get -110 when we win b/c we get a slight advantage by being able to choose which bets we accept.

[chemist]

A sharp player opens an account, and has his limits severely limited. In succession, he opens 3 additional accounts under the names of family members. Each account in sequence makes the same style of bets, and has the limits lowered.

On the 4th account, the book identifies this account as related to the other 3. The book cancels the player's winnings, and refunds the deposit.

Fair or foul: Can a player use a family member's identity to circumvent reduced limits?

It depends entirely on whether the behaviour is specifically forbidden by the book's rules. Otherwise I see no reason why other members of his family cannot authorize him to operate accounts on their behalf.

[Nicky Santoro]

that's bullshit wileout. Did you ever think that maybe the book knew this the whole time and said, hey wait a second, we are booking 6 dimes a game instead of 2 dimes a game.. hey, this is great. maybe we will go on a big streak and keep our mouths shut, and if we start to lose, we will just cry fraud and not pay him..

IT's a free shot for the book wileout. you can't do that shit. you book those bets, you HAVE TO pay those bets. there's no other way. Don't give the books an easy way out or a free shot at you, because they will take it, mark my words.


Books have done this from day 1..

[noyb]

You book the bet, you pay the bet.. then after that, you can close their accts or do what you want with them..

altough i agree a book shouldn't profit from a situation like this, if the player is not punished in any way, what's stopping him from opening a new account and when that's closed, another, and then another, another, another, etc

so, to me it's a bit more complicated.

[HedgeHog]

Nicky makes a great point. If the player is winning w/o taking shots (i.e. past posting or bad lines)--then pay him. Otherwise the Book is taking a shot.

[WileOut]

That is something to think about Nicky but it seems cut and dry to me.

The second the player made 1 extra account to circumvent the limits and started wagering using that account he cheated. Now all the rules fly out the door. The book can do what they want now because the player has cheated and changed the rules. The book then has every right to deny those bets, even if it is years after they are made.

Bottom line is that the player took the original shot at the book. That gives the book the right to take shots at the player.

Hedge the player took the original shot by creating extra accounts to get around limits placed on him.

[katstale]

Nicky makes a great point. If the player is winning w/o taking shots (i.e. past posting or bad lines)--then pay him. Otherwise the Book is taking a shot.

No question book is taking a shot. If they don't have the relative/same house rule--the dude is good. Just not very sly--but good!

[Nicky Santoro]

if a guy opened up 4 accts and the book sees this right away, i assure you they wont say a word and let the guy do this and see how it goes..

game 1- player loses bet, book makes 8 dimes and shuts up and pretends they dont know..

book is laughing, they know all about this, but will see how far the can go with this and how much they can make.


game 2- player loses bet, book wins another 8 dimes..

game 3- player loses bet again, player loses another 8 dimes..


Now they are up 24 dimes instead of 6 dimes.. (1 acct)



game 4- player wins bet for 8 dimes..


Book closes acct and says to player, hey, what are you trying to pull, we found out that you have 4 accts, therefore your win doesn't count..


player already lost 24k, but that he wont get back, but the last win he got, sorry, you are not getting paid for it because you cheated..



Books do this all the time, trust me on this. they have a license to steal and take shots at you.. Remember, they have your money and you have no say in it. You have to do what they say..

[WileOut]

It all goes back to who took the original shot. In this case it is the player. The book could use this to confiscate all winnings because the book was playing fair. It was the player who cheated first.

But I think it would be wrong to confiscate all the money. The original account held by the player should be refunded with all winnings. All other accounts are frauds because they were found to be non valid accounts made by a limited player to circumvent the limit.

If the book honored all the other bets made by the fraud accounts, every other limited player would start taking shots at the book. The book has to protect itself.

[WileOut]

Nicky if the book has in its rules that players can only open 1 account then opening 4 accounts is cheating, no?

In your example the player cheated first by opening 4 accounts at a book that does not allow players more than 1 account. The book can really do what it wants in this situation. However the standup books will do whats right like I explained in my first post.

[frostno98]

They'll gladly take his losing though.

[Frank]

i didn't even read the other answers, because it's useless.

You book the bet, you pay the bet.. then after that, you can close their accts or do what you want with them..

There is no discussion here. Had the guy lost 26 bets in a row, then they find out, will they reimburse all his money??

These fu-ckin books get on my nerves. they always try every angle they can find not to pay a player. I can't name you how many books have pulled stunts like this on me.


Don't let me get into my SBG GLOBAL story because i wont stop.. The more i think of it, the more it aggravates me. That f-ckin stiff shop..

Close the thread because this is the ONLY correct answer!

Pay him, his mom, his sister, and his dog and ban them all!



This has to be a piece of crap book that doesn't know how to book bets and move on action because if they moved their number after the first bet, they wouldn't get double popped.

[Nicky Santoro]

franky boy, i guarantee you this place is a cheesy outfit, OR they were taking a shot at this guy and knew beforehand what he was doing..


All they had to do was move the line the 1st time and this woudl have never happened.

If he bet mets -145, and then they moved it right after his 1st play to -150, i guarantee you he woudln't have placed the next 2 bets there because there probably was a -147 elsewhere. but by them leaving the # the same, is telling me this is a shit outfit, OR they were taking a shot and knew what was going on..


This has SBG Global written all over it. this is their style. or some book that no ones heard of..


pay this guys money you shot takers.

[MonkeyF0cker]

A sharp player opens an account, and has his limits severely limited. In succession, he opens 3 additional accounts under the names of family members. Each account in sequence makes the same style of bets, and has the limits lowered.

On the 4th account, the book identifies this account as related to the other 3. The book cancels the player's winnings, and refunds the deposit.

Fair or foul: Can a player use a family member's identity to circumvent reduced limits?

Is it not within reason to assume that those family members were potentially using his picks to profit themselves? It CAN be assumed that the player opened the accounts him/herself and placed the wagers. However, who's to say the former isn't true? The book should honor the wagers as long as no rules were broken. It cannot be proven that those family members didn't input the wagers themselves if they were the original account holders picks. They should honor the action since the wagers were originally considered fair to begin with and any losses incurred would not have provoked a refund. The players should have complete access to withdraw any and all money from each account. The book should then have the option of either closing or limiting any of the accounts from that point forward.

[Iwinyourmoney]

As long as the TOS say 1 account per household, it's a no brainer

[MonkeyF0cker]

Hmm. Do you still live with your mom? WTF. What would make you guys think that this person's family lives in the same household? If the accounts were opened using the same address then the book should have never allowed the account to be created and should not have booked the action to begin with if it is against their rules.

[purecarnagge]

if they booked the bets they need to take it. If they're is fraud they need to lock the account contact the player and send a check.

I've never heard of a local bookie, taking a bet and citing random rules to get out of playing. If they say yes, ok and took the bet, then they need to pay him.

If they truly want to know who they are dealing with they should limit a person to phone only betting. I've yet to see a book do that.

[DukeJohn]

A sharp player opens an account, and has his limits severely limited. In succession, he opens 3 additional accounts under the names of family members. Each account in sequence makes the same style of bets, and has the limits lowered.

On the 4th account, the book identifies this account as related to the other 3. The book cancels the player's winnings, and refunds the deposit.

Fair or foul: Can a player use a family member's identity to circumvent reduced limits?

As many have said "book the bet pay the bet". Now, of course he was trying to circumvent the reduced limits which, given the parameters in Justin's quote makes it a fair thing the book did, after-all the player knew the risks.

As to my opinion, why the fuk in today's technology can't a book just automate lines to where money is balanced. Sure lines would be all f'ked up and arbs would be going crazy. Hell, we would all be arb bettors then. There has to be a better way to stabilize a book's lines enough to allow Sharps into the fold.

This online betting industry really needs some new innovation when it comes to stabilizing lines to an equilibrium with money. It is hard to understand when, if ya think about it, books usually are out for themselves, so why are they following the herd on published lines and just not allowing their own software to post line according to cash flow. LOL, now that would be fun to see.

[JC]

Fair or foul: Can a player use a family member's identity to circumvent reduced limits?

The simple answer to that simple question is No.

It sounds like the player has admitted that was what he was doing. IF that is the case, then all of the subsequent winnings and losings made from the circumvented limits should be voided and the deposits should proably be refunded.

If credit cards were involved I would hold the equivalent of the cc deposits for six months. This player can not be trusted.