Iraq IS Vietnam - And We Shall Cry Hot Tears . . .

[curious]

You (and the neocons and nationalist Israelis) can define Iran and Syria as enemies. They are not enemies of the American people.

Why do you insist on equating me with these neocon muther phuckers? I don't like them, don't agree with them, and don't espouse their views. Typical DemoCong tactic when you can't win the argument, start attacking personally.

Iran declared war on the United States when they invaded our sovereign territory and kidnapped our citizens. They have continued this war by sponsoring a terrorist war against United States citizens and US military forces. They currently are fighting this war via their special forces and proxy allies in Iraq.

Syria has been at war with the United States for many years. Same story. They sponsor terrorist attacks against United States citizens and military forces and are actively engaged against US forces in Iraq.

The leadership of both countries is on record as saying that their goal is the destruction of the United States.

The DemoCong can proffer this "peace at all costs" propaganda all they want, doesn't change the fact that these countries are our enemy.

[curious]

Just doesn't make sense, guy.

AQ was NOT in Iraq, until after we invaded.

Irrelevant. They are there now and they are murdering the Iraqi people in the thousands. We need to destroy them no matter where they are, no matter when and how they got there.

You (and the neocons and nationalist Israelis) can define Iran and Syria as enemies. They are not enemies of the American people.

I am not a neocon, don't accept their views, do not espouse their views. Made a separate post about Iran and Syria. You sound like a Jimmy Carter parrot. Carter is an idiot.

Bush ane bin Laden have one thing in common: they both love the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Irrelevant. We are there and we have an obligation to the Iraqi people not to abandon them to their much more powerful enemies.
[QUOTE]
Any "moral oblisgation" we have to the Iraqi people is to get the fuk out of their country! Poll after poll, including by the GOP pollster, has told us that 80 to 90% of them want the US forces OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY.[/QUOTE
This is an out and out lie. What the Iraqi people want is the violence to stop. Violence being further perpetrated by al-Qaeda and Iranian and Syrian proxy forces, criminal gangs, and Islamofascist militias.

We invaded and destroyed their country (one of the more Westernized in the Islamic world, iwth a Christian as Foregin Minister - you won;'t see that again!) and insist upon occupying it. They want us out.

We are not an occupying force. This is an other DemoCong lie. Iraq was destroyed long before the invasion. Sadaam had been spending the vast majority of Iraqi resources on weapons since before the first gulf war. The Iraqi civil infrastructure was in ruin thanks to Sadaam.

Most of the resistance fighters are NOT AQ. The ranks of AQ are made of mainly of non-Iraqis. The guy who was killed by a US air raid a few year ago was Jordanian. The new AQ leader in Iraq is reportedly Egyptian.

You know nothing. The Sunnis made up a large part of the al-Qaeda ranks until they turned against them.

What resistance? Criminal gangs, Islamofascist militias killing each other, Syria and Iranian proxy forces killing civilans. That is not a "resistance". American casualties are so low because no one is fighting them in a serious way. The civilians are being targeted by terror warfare. These are the same people you want to abandon the Iraqi people to.

[QUOTE]
The Iraqi people want both entities out. Once the Americans leave (and they will, "DemoCong" or not) the Iraqi will get rid of AQ. And AQ is definitely not welcome in Iran.
[/QUOTE
Wow, you speak for the Iraqi people? When you have never been there, don't know anyone there, and get all your information from DemoCong propaganda. The Iraqi people want a secure government and secure military so the violence will stop. al-Qaeda still has not been completely defeated with the help of US forces and you think they will be defeated without that help? But al-Qaeda is only part of the problem. The Islamofascist militias have proven that they will murder anyone who does not agree with them. Iran and Syria have proxy forces in Iraq. If the US leaves it won't just be proxy forces. There will be a new war between the Sunnis, Kurds, and their Shia allies on one hand and the Shia radicals, Iran, and Syria on the other hand with al-Qaeda making as much chaos as possible. Only the Sunnis, Kurds, and their Shia allies won't have any means to fight once their current ammunition stocks are exhausted.

When the American invasion began, and met its initial resistance from the Iraqi people, a Jordanian journalist "embedded" with a four-man resistance cell in Baghdad asked the young man who led it - a guy who had sold his small business to finance the cell - why he was doing it.

What do you think he replied? That he was looking forward toward martyrdom and the 72 virgins? Thet he loved Saddam and was fighting for his return to power?

Tht may be what shithead neocons want us to believe.

But the five word reply the businessman turned warrior gave to the Jordanian journalist is something I think Americans will well understand:

"BECAUSE MY COUNTRY WAS INVADED."

You got your timing wrong here, on purpose I am sure. The insurgency did not start until after that idiot Rumsfield said on worldwide television that he didn't care that Iraq had been plunged into chaos because "in war shit happens". This told the Iraqi people that the US did not respect them. The worst thing you can do to a person in that part of the world.

If the US had sent in the kind of force you need to keep a modern country running in addition to the combat troops, units like engineering and construction batallions, security battalions, civil adminstration units, etc, and if they had not dissolved the Iraqi army and police and if they had showed by actions that they were a liberating force, things would have been very different.

Sadaam sent the entire civil administration home and plunged the country into chaos. The Bush administration never acknowledged that and made the situation ten times worse. The support that the US had at first from the Iraq people was thrown away by indifference and a failure to plan for the war properly. yes, you can pull down the statue in a few weeks, but what do you do the next day? That was never planned for.

[ritehook]

Yes, I think that most of the wars the US has been involved in were wrong. WWII could have been handled very differently, FDR purposely picked a fight with Japan when Japan was seeking a way to be at peace with the US. FDR violated the neutrality laws of the US to wage an undeclared war against German UBoats. He further violated US law by giving arms to belligerent nations. Then, FDR purposely influenced the war plans of the military to ensure that the Soviets would be able to overrun eastern Europe. I know you will deny this, read a book Wedemeyer Reports.

No, actually I don't deny it. FDR with malevolence aforethought did collude with the Soviets, and tilted to them. His regime was overrun with either fellow travelers or outright Reds. And like Wilson before him there was a potent "alien slant" to the his policies.

But socialism is not communism. The former is economic and often overly idealistic, the latter is political, dealing with power problems, mainly in 3rd world (or former 3rd world ) lands, like China.

In many respects, Communism was the organized revolt of the non-white world against the world rule of Europeans and
Euro-descended Americans.

Socialism existed long before Marx and Lenin and Stalin. Back to the Greeks, as a matter of fact.

Some of the programs FDR put in or tried to were already established in some European lands. Germany had had Social Security since the 1870s. Some of the Scandanavian lands had "socialist" programs since the early 20th century.

We do have socialism in America also. A notable and busted Wall Street banking firm just was the beneficiary of American socialism.

Free enterprise, tho,is rife among the various middle classes. The govt will only protect the bottom dwellers and the mega billionaires. Socialism for the super-rich - that is the American motto!

But Wilson, FDR and gw Bush all had one very marked tilt - if one is both honest and intelligent (with an extra chromosone for courage also) it would not have to be drawn up for them by a political John Madden.

[ritehook]

I do enjoy the debate,but can only do it a few nights a week, before Morpheus snatches me from the light and into the darkness. And, I get away for a while from a re-reading of Decline of the West.

Did want to ask you one quesiton, curious. (Becuase I also am 'curious')

You say that you were in the First Gulf War, and were wounded.

May I be impertinent and ask: were you in that war as an American soldier?

Or perhaps as a contractor? Or as a national of another country entirely?

I ask because you did say, inter alia, that you were in an Israeli military hospital. (I assume in Israel.)

That would make sense if you were a soldier or agent of Israel.
I mean, the big US military hospital in Germany I understand to be state of the art when it comes to treating combat injuries.

So, how did you end up in a military hospital in Israel?