BET365 should be downgraded to F. A crook site.

[Chuck Sims]

Why is Bill Dozer and SBR getting the facts wrong? Bet365 an "A+" book? PLEEEEEEEEEEASE.

[natrass]

Then, Washington needs to step in. Wherever this place is at. I take it is some small island in the middle of the Carribean. Wherever their offices are out should be bombarded by missle attacks. I'm not talking fission bombs or anything like that. Just something that would kill everyone in the building and within a 50 foot radius of it.

I guarantee if that happens just once, no one will get stiffed again. It's called effective leadership. This country has the power, so use it. I guarantee you if other countries had it they would.

Best post ever.

[natrass]

Prima does state that they have record of the players using the same computer).

This is VERY important as to the credibility or otherwise of this guys claims.

If two players have used the same computer then of course the suspicion of collusion has got to be there. Would you want to play against such players??

[natrass]

One thing that I don't understand, that Betandwin is a "C" rated bookie, mostly because they limit those who win big money from them.
But why is Bet365 an "A" rated bookie, if they are doing just the same as Betandwin?

The difference betwenn the two :

bet365 = bet£3.65

and betandwin = betandpray

betandwin can be scoundrels whereas bet365 is for rec players mainly.

[isetcap]

There's Natrass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes yes yes yes yes...man we've been waiting for you for a long time.

I put out a welcome back thread for you back in February.

[edc0218]

BILL,
I'm being accused of collusion n chip dumping. The computer ID has no bearing. PRIMA already released my money because they have no evidence. Why do we have to go back again onto details. It's already done. I'm being accused of wrongdoing and PRIMA can't prove it that's why they released my money.

What else do you want to know? Do you want to know the machine I'm using and my IP address?
Why don't you try this instead... try to open two different accounts on the same computer with PRIMA POKER... tell me what happens. It won't let you right. Because you can't. You are only allowed to open with one account. So why bring up the machine issue if I'm being accused of chip dumping and collusion(it takes to accounts to perform chip dumping or collusion)..

So can you just please get my money from BET365 because I used SBR as my referral and because you rated them as an A+ book.

[natrass]

There's Natrass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes yes yes yes yes...man we've been waiting for you for a long time.

I put out a welcome back thread for you back in February.

thanks buddy ... Im gonna look for that thread as I havent seen it ... BUT, its all peace and respectfulness on the private forum ... a big disappointment

[natrass]

try to open two different accounts on the same computer with PRIMA POKER... tell me what happens. It won't let you right. Because you can't.

And how would you know, if I can ask? Why would you be trying to open two accounts.

Are you saying you didnt use the same computer as another player at any time?

Sorry to hassle you but I am curious as to the facts ... and the facts are everything in these cases.

[freebie]

is SBR helping out on this and what's the status of the issue?

[natrass]

WWTS authorized the return of the funds because the player deposited by credit card and chooses not to lose the funds via **********. BetHoldem maintains the player is guilty. The player's 365 deposit was via Neteller.

BetHoldem, Prima, 365Poker and IBAS each found the player guilty of collusion.

I do agree that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks unless the player has a say in choosing who that someone is. I have asked that they give the player the basic details and the option to allow SBR and/or PRR to review them.

Bet365's poker is going to discuss this with Prima and I hope to learn more tomorrow. However, the nature of poker is such that play will always be subject to the opinion of someone else and players need to know this going in. Regardless of how much hand history or how many session logs, there is no scientific formula for identifying collusion (although Prima does state that they have record of the players using the same computer). This is why SBR does not attempt to get involved (or have the resources to) in the many poker disputes.

freebie .. I think that covers SBRs opinion, which Id be inclined to totally agree with.

[isetcap]

edc is a cheater. now he's trying to make sbr look bad.

ban him.

[isetcap]

thanks buddy ... Im gonna look for that thread as I havent seen it ... BUT, its all peace and respectfulness on the private forum ... a big disappointment

Oh man, I know.

Maybe you'll get into one of your moods and try to start some static. That would be fun.

[Bill Dozer]

edc0218,

I spoke to Bet365 Poker this morning have decided to pay you in full. Management has been attempting to reach you by phone.

[imgv94]

A Happy Ending. Great Job Bill.

[isetcap]

I'm not so sure it's a happy ending, but Bill should be commended for getting the funds released. From an industry standpoint, it isn't good for cheating scammers to get away with their cheating and scamming activities. I understand that SBR is a player advocate site but that occasionally leads to short-sighted "happy ending" results. I would venture to say this is not an ending at all for the cheating and scamming that is taking place.

If you go to the "massage therapist" and receive a "happy ending", you're only "happy" until the "old lady" finds out and then you realize that the situation has not ended at all.

[imgv94]

I'm not so sure it's a happy ending, but Bill should be commended for getting the funds released. From an industry standpoint, it isn't good for cheating scammers to get away with their cheating and scamming activities. I understand that SBR is a player advocate site but that occasionally leads to short-sighted "happy ending" results. I would venture to say this is not an ending at all for the cheating and scamming that is taking place.

If you go to the "massage therapist" and receive a "happy ending", you're only "happy" until the "old lady" finds out and then you realize that the situation has not ended at all.

Thats a brilliant analogy

[isetcap]

You busy chipdumping, edc?

[JC]

They found him guilty but now they are paying?

Sounds like the player was telling the truth about them not being able to prove it. It also sounds that they may have been full of it as to why WWTS released his funds. (cc vs. neteller)

Good job by Bill Dozer and SBR to get this thing resolved.

[edc0218]

Hi! Bill ,
Finally BET365 released my funds. I spoke to Mr. Willis the supervisor of BET365 and he finally agreed to release my funds.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH BILL and to all the members that backed me up.

And for some members that aren't on my side. It's ok.

I know that I haven't done anything wrong. All I did was play poker and I don't always win. I lose money too. THAT IS WHAT GAMBLING IS ALL ABOUT. But too be accused of all these bad things. I DON'T PUT UP WITH IT. WHEN I LOSE A LOT OF MONEY I
DON'T HEAR A LOT OF COMPLAINTS AND I'M CONSIDERED A VALUABLE CUSTOMER AND THATS OK. BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG YOU DESERVED WHAT IS RIGHT.

ANYWAYS I STILL BET ON SPORSTBOOKS BUT I PLAY POKER IN CASINOS NOW, SO
NO ONE CAN ACCUSED ME OF WRONG DOINGS. WHEN I PLAY IN CASINOS ITS LIVE AND PEOPLE KNOW THAT I AM JUST PLAYING POKER THE WAY I WANT TO PLAY IT.
NO ONE WILL JUDGE ME THE WAY I WANT TO PLAY MY CARDS. THAT IS WHAT POKER IS ALL ABOUT. HAVING FUN. WIN OR LOSE.

I AM JUST PLAYING JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

THANK YOU BILL DOZER FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR LISTENING TO MY SITUATION.I KNOW THAT LISTENING TO BOTH SIDES (CLIENTS AND SPORTSBOOKS) is a tough job too have.

MEMBERS THANKS FOR THE REPLY.

[Illusion]

I'm glad this is finally resolved. Great job Bill.

[isetcap]

Here's what we are supporting when we support the cheat tactics of edc0218. At least some frauds have the moral capacity to confess instead of lying and crying to legit watchdog sites.

Online poker fraudsters, and the consequences of this dishonest conduct at major online poker venues was one of the top discussion subjects this week following spectacular detective work and the confiscation of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

In one case, the $200 buy-in, $500 000 Guaranteed Tournament held by market leader Party Poker was the target. This event is supported by the huge player base of the Internet's biggest online poker site and draws thousands of players. In this case, the packed tables were finally (apparently) conquered by a hitherto unknown player using the handle ABlackCar, who won $140 000.

ABlackcar's new-found wealth did not last long, however and his fate is a cautionary lesson for any and all would-be fraudsters who seek to cheat and lie their way to riches through poker sites and the honest players who frequent same.

Through some astute detective and technology work, Party Poker exposed the fact that ABlackcar was the fraudulent multiple account of one of the Internet's top online poker players who uses the handle JJ Prodigy.

Party Poker's reaction was decisive and immediate, stripping the first prize from ABlackcar and awarding it instead to the next placed player, with a consequent unexpected "bump up" for all other winners.

'JJProdigy' defended himself on the poker forums, notably 2 Plus 2 where this incident became a major talking point, initially stating that the second account was for his grandmother to play on! When she worked her way deep into the tournament, said 'JJProdigy' he took over for her and let people know at the tables that he was playing the account.

Unfortunately for JJ, the truth will come out, and the true story involving his play as ABlackcar surfaced.

'JJ' confessed to the deception and then admitted to knowingly setting up the second account at the end of 2005 and to playing both accounts throughout the tournament. More alarmingly, however - JJ went on to allege that many players he knows do the same thing and that many online sites have no idea that it is happening.

PartyPoker's T&Cs are specific regarding fraudulent play, and the management is to be congratulated for taking such a strong stand on this issue. The penalties for fraudulent play are stiff but appropriate to ensure honesty and safety for other players - confiscation of any winnings and the immediate cancellation of all accounts involved.

Those penalties were immediately applied to JJ.

On the positive side, another leading Internet site, PokerStars.com was alerted by the incident and started its own internal investigation, found impropriety, and closed another well padded JJProdigy account on their platform.

Also paying the penalty of confiscation of substantial winnings (believed well over $100 000) was another young Party Poker gambler, one of whose handles was Zee Justin. This was apparently a high stakes player who created multiple new accounts. In subsequent posting exchanges on 2 Plus 2, in what has become known as "The Mother of All Threads" he claimed that he knew that what he was doing was unethical. ZJ was found to be playing 6 buy-ins in a large multi table tournament and he admitted to doing it, saying that he knew of others who play 10 buy-ins in a single tournament.

His tribulations did not stop there, either - Party Poker is reported to have also shut down his affiliate account.

Sources say that other large operators alerted by the scam have redoubled their vigilance and are methodically analysing their poker action in an ongoing search for any other crooks.

JJ Prodigy and Zee Justin are reported to be just two of the many young men who have taken so successfully to the world of online poker. They are clearly persons of skill and talent, although their intelligence and integrity has to be questioned for pulling this sort of stunt. And they may find it extremely difficult henceforth to be continue with their apparently lucrative online poker careers, as there are very few people who like or trust fraudsters. That will make this a very expensive lesson.

By way of reassurance to pokerheads, the chances of actual collusion in a poker tournament with hundreds of tables is small.

No doubt other fraudsters will be publicised when caught, and that will serve as an ongoing deterrent to any player contemplating dishonest tactics in online poker. In the meantime, for those who are still considering this sort of scam - be aware that the operators are wideawake, and the consequences are severe.

[edc0218]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respect that. Isetcap, everything runs in two directions. YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO (CLIENTS AND SPORTSBOOKS).


IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY, DON'T SAY IT.

WHY DON'T YOU QUIT YOUR COPS SKILL INVESTIGATING PEOPLE WHO GOT RIPPED OFF. AND USE YOUR SKILL ON INVESTIGATING SPORTSBOOKS WHO'S RIPPING US OFF. I GUESS I SHOULD NOT INCLUDE YOU IN US, BECAUSE THE COMPANIES DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR $25 BUY IN, BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN AFFORD ON YOUR SALARY. IN YOUR LETTER YOU TRY TO GIVE A LESSON ABOUT THE GOOD AND THE BAD.

NOW LET ME GIVE YOU A LESSON ABOUT POKER, SEE THE GAME IS NOT ABOUT JUST PLAYING YOUR CARDS, THERE IS A MENTAL ASPECT IN PLAYING,BLUFFING,TRYING TO KNOW HOW YOUR OPPONENT PLAY AND STRINGING SOMEONE ALONG,AND IF YOU ARE NOT PLAYING THIS WAY,THEN JUST SAVE YOUR MONEY.. LAST LESSON PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE RIPPED OFF FOR BLUFFING OR WINNING MONEY.AS I SAID SOMETIMES I WIN SOMETIMES I LOSE. I WIN ONCE IN A WHILE I GET RIPPED OFF FOR THIS. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THEY RIPPED OFF YOUR HARDWORK EARNED SALARY?

WHY DON'T YOU WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT THESE COMPANIES WHO RIPPED OFF CLIENTS. DO YOU KNOW THESE BAD COMPANIES, SEE I KNOW SOME, I READ ALL ABOUT IT. WHY DON'T YOU TARGET THESE MUTI MILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES WHO RIPPED OFF PEOPLE JUST LIKE ME. THESE COMPANIES PROBABLY BECAME RICH FOR RIPPING OFF CLIENTS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT MR. SENIOR MEMBER?

THEY GAVE ME BACK WHAT BELONGS TO ME . IF I LOSE THAT IS FINE. BUT TAKING MY MONEY FOR NO VALID REASON IS STEALING.

I CAN UNDERSTAND IF YOU WORK FOR THESE SPORTBOOKS, YOU ARE JUST DOING YOUR JOB.