Am I a scumbag for doing this?

OLGC_Slayer · 03-23-08, 01:34 AM

Hmmmm.
I wouldn't do this myself but I see nothing wrong with you offering lines to people as such. If they aren't doing their homework they shouldn't be betting on sports.
I don't think its immoral, I just have a guilty conscious.

BigOrangeTitans · 03-23-08, 01:34 AM

You arent the first person to do this...
But someone could catch your stale lines if your on the wrong side anyways, and hammer you for it.

Brick Tamland · 03-23-08, 01:36 AM

nothin wrong with this...its no different then taking bets at -110 and betting them off at pinnacle at 105. books do it all the time. ****...your book you are gettin +3 at might have 31/2!

AgainstAllOdds · 03-23-08, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by BigOrangeTitans

You arent the first person to do this...
But someone could catch your stale lines if your on the wrong side anyways, and hammer you for it.

I cant be on the wrong side...say they book at +2(I told them 2 instead of 3)... the actual line is +3....I book at +3...then the acutal line moves to +4 I call them back and say " dude the line just just went to +3, do you want to double down?....They say yes so I book another bet for them at +4 when I told them it was at +3. Cant lose here...sometimes it just gets to be a bitch to keep track of everything.

OLGC_Slayer · 03-23-08, 01:44 AM

Dude, do any of these people know how to operate the internet? I mean no offense to you but why would they call you up for lines when they can get lines for free from about 500 different sources with a few mouse clicks? These guys must be pretty slow. Retarded even.

BigOrangeTitans · 03-23-08, 01:45 AM

Ok, say you are doing it to all lines, period.
Not bad, just sucks if you get stiffed.
But you arent the first guy to do this

AgainstAllOdds · 03-23-08, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by OLGC_Slayer

Dude, do any of these people know how to operate the internet? I mean no offense to you but why would they call you up for lines when they can get lines for free from about 500 different sources with a few mouse clicks? These guys must be pretty slow. Retarded even.

You wouldnt believe how lazy some people are...plus some people dont want to go through the hassle of opening up an account and sending in all the info and then waiting for the money...Usually I get paid or pay them at the end of every week and that works...Plus everyone thinks Im a genious because im a legit "bookie"

And just to talk refer to BOT's post...Yea it sucks to get stiffed but most of the people I play with arent total **** ups and spend their last dollar...If I think they are at risk I cut thier limits...****ing simple right?

DukeJohn · 03-23-08, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by AgainstAllOdds

Alright so Ive kind of become a bookie in my local area...nothing big,nickle limits blah blah blah...

But what I do when people call me up I give them a stale line...heres how it works(theres alot more to it but this is just the basics)

I get a call for the nuggets game they are +3...I tell the person they are +2...they take the line...I put the order in through my bookie for +3. The game ends final 110 108 nuggets lose....to my customer it is a push to me its a win I give them there money back and I take the winnings. simple and it comes with no risk to me...

Ive made alot of money off this but see I feel a little unethical when I do this but **** we are already gambling degenerates and these people are not my friends....so whats the diffrence? Its pretty smart if you ask me but i wanna get peoples opinions.

This is not unethical. You are simply following a business model and offering a service in which your clients are willing to pay for.

I would, however, be concern with the legality of it here in the U.S. Placing bets is one thing, but accepting bets from others, well that is just a whole different can of worms. You might be small enough and no one will take notice, but to actually state that you do this on an open forum.

I would suggest you be a little more careful.

AgainstAllOdds · 03-23-08, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by DukeJohn

This is not unethical. You are simply following a business model and offering a service in which your clients are willing to pay for.

I would, however, be concern with the legality of it here in the U.S. Placing bets is one thing, but accepting bets from others, well that is just a whole different can of worms. You might be small enough and no one will take notice, but to actually state that you do this on an open forum.

I would suggest you be a little more careful.

I'll probably start to worry more if/when i go to jail for booking other peoples action

SSLP · 03-23-08, 05:13 AM

Dude what your doing is 100% normal lines are different in credit than in post up , thats just something they have to deal with for not playing with money upfront.

jackpot269 · 03-23-08, 06:11 AM

I see nothing wrong here if they don't like the line they don't have to bet

jjgold · 03-23-08, 07:00 AM

I knew I liked you guy but be careful if a sharp comes in you will get beat.

You can give any lines you like

rugbybdyb · 03-23-08, 07:40 AM

If they dont want to do the work then it their fault....they can get the better lines if they go online etc, so I call it good business.

RageWizard · 03-23-08, 07:56 AM

I see nothing wrong with this practice as long as they could have faded the nuggets at +2 when the real number was +3. If your going to run the risk of changing numbers when you think that you know who the costumer is playing on, then you also have the flip side when they go the other way. Some sharp people will eventual figure out your game and will take advantage of the situation.

curious · 03-23-08, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by AgainstAllOdds

Alright so Ive kind of become a bookie in my local area...nothing big,nickle limits blah blah blah...

But what I do when people call me up I give them a stale line...heres how it works(theres alot more to it but this is just the basics)

I get a call for the nuggets game they are +3...I tell the person they are +2...they take the line...I put the order in through my bookie for +3. The game ends final 110 108 nuggets lose....to my customer it is a push to me its a win I give them there money back and I take the winnings. simple and it comes with no risk to me...

Ive made alot of money off this but see I feel a little unethical when I do this but **** we are already gambling degenerates and these people are not my friends....so whats the diffrence? Its pretty smart if you ask me but i wanna get peoples opinions.

I am a firm believer that if two consenting adults, each having access to the same information, agree to engage in a business transaction, that each of them must see a mutual benefit to entering into the agreement or they wouldn't do it. So, if you offer a service, in this case the Nuggets +2, and a person who could easily find out what that the "real" line on the Nuggets is +3, accepts your offer of the Nuggets +2, they must think that this benefits them. Perhaps they don't want to deal with Vegas or the Internet. Perhaps they trust you and don't want to deal with a "gangster" bookie. Most people think that bookies are organized crime members who can get their "Muscle" to collect debts. So, they use you because they know you are not that. Of course, I cannot know what their motivation is for using you instead of some other local bookie, but whatever their reason they obviously prefer doing business with you.

I would only feel an ethical problem with doing this if the "real" lines were not freely available to anyone who wanted to find them. If someone you were doing this with was completely clueless that they were getting stale lines then I would have a problem with it. That does not seem to be the case here though. Anyone who wants to can find the real lines to any sporting event in under two minutes using Google.

So, I guess I would ask you "do your customers KNOW that they can get better lines if they want to"? Or, "are your customers the kind of novices who have no clue what a stale line is"? The answer to that question would tell me if I thought what you are doing is ethical or not.

I would probably also have an ethical problem with this if the "stale" line that you used was way off from the "real" line. That also doesn't seem to be the case from what you said.

I am guessing that it is likely that your 'customers' like the convenience of the service that you provide, otherwise they wouldn't use you. So, perhaps they are knowingly trading convenience for the difference in your stale line and the real line? If it is only a 1/2 point to 1 or 2 points I can see how a lot of people could justify that trade off in their own mind.

I don't follow how you can make a "lot" of money doing this. I guess more games end up just barely covering the spread than I expect.

curious · 03-23-08, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by AgainstAllOdds

I cant be on the wrong side...say they book at +2(I told them 2 instead of 3)... the actual line is +3....I book at +3...then the acutal line moves to +4 I call them back and say " dude the line just just went to +3, do you want to double down?....They say yes so I book another bet for them at +4 when I told them it was at +3. Cant lose here...sometimes it just gets to be a bitch to keep track of everything.

I can see a way you can lose. If I called you and you quoted me +2 / -2 on a game that I knew was +3 / -3 and I was already wanting to take the favorite, I would hammer that -2.

So, are you finding out what side the person wants before you quote the line?

And, are you giving unequal lines? So, instead of quoting +2 / -2 on a game that is +3/-3, you are quoting +2 / -4?

curious · 03-23-08, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by AgainstAllOdds

I'll probably start to worry more if/when i go to jail for booking other peoples action

You should really be careful with this. I don't think people understand just how corrupt our "legal" system is. Laws which were put on the books to fight really tough problems like organized crime, violent gangs, communist espionage, industrial espionage, and now terrorism are being used to prosecute people for "simple" crimes.

Take money laundering. This law was initially put in place to go after large criminal enterprises. What the prosecutor will do if they catch you is not just charge you with illegal gambling, they will charge you with a long list of very serious crimes. Money laundering, various wire statutes, tax evasion, etc, etc. The reason they do this is so that the person charged cannot possibly afford to come to court because if they are found guilty they will have to do a very lengthy sentence. So, they charge the person with all this really serious stuff to force the person to make a plea bargain. Obviously this is a blatant tactic to deny the defendent due process.

Personally, I think the risk is too high. I would be very careful who I did this with and I would make sure that I put NOTHING in writing in a form that it could be understood later.

I am not saying that you should do this, and I am not giving advice on how to do it, but I saw in a fictional movie once where a person who wanted to keep personal information private would type the information into something like excel and then use encryption software to keep it private. Also, he put an encryption device on his phone. I'm not sure if the caller also has to have the encryption device. This made it impossible for anyone to eavesdrop on his phone conversations. Also, he didn't use a hard drive to store his information. He used a portable drive and kept it hidden. So, someone wanting to invade his privacy would first have to find the portable drive, then break the encryption. This was, of course, a fictional character in a fictional story in a movie. So, I am not suggesting that you do any of that.

capitalist pig · 03-23-08, 09:22 AM

[QUOTE=curious;623571]You should really be careful with this. I don't think people understand just how corrupt our "legal" system is. Laws which were put on the books to fight really tough problems like organized crime, violent gangs, communist espionage, industrial espionage, and now terrorism are being used to prosecute people for "simple" crimes.

QUOTE]

I just dont get why somone would come on a public message board and admit to commiting illegal acts and since you have admitted to being a middle man, your now a candidate for felony conspiracy charges as well. In the future id keep this kind of information private, JMO.

later

erybdyducksth · 03-23-08, 09:27 AM

[QUOTE=capitalist pig;623635]

Originally posted by curious

You should really be careful with this. I don't think people understand just how corrupt our "legal" system is. Laws which were put on the books to fight really tough problems like organized crime, violent gangs, communist espionage, industrial espionage, and now terrorism are being used to prosecute people for "simple" crimes.

QUOTE]

I just dont get why somone would come on a public message board and admit to commiting illegal acts and since you have admitted to being a middle man, your now a candidate for felony conspiracy charges as well. In the future id keep this kind of information private, JMO.

later

What a douche commiting felony conspiracy charges. You make me laugh my Asssss off. Really dude is that the case. Against all isnt moving enough money to even be on a radar of any law enforcement agency's....... Against do you need any more clients?

AgainstAllOdds · 03-23-08, 10:47 AM

First off, I would like to thank everyone for their input. This is the kinda feedback I was looking for.

Curious, thanks for your write up...I understand it comes with risk as some have stated, I am not moving that much money to really be on anyones radar. To your answer your question, if I tell them +3/-3 and they say they want -3...I go book it for -2, not -4. As I said that was a basic example up top but it goes more into depth with other things.

Capitals Pig...Get the **** outta here with your felony conspirasy bullshit. I posted this topic to see what others thought on this subject. We are on a GAMBLING forum...I would think this is a perfect topic that could be addressed here without geekballs like you making idiotic comments.

Art Vandeleigh · 03-23-08, 01:13 PM

I'm not a real spiritual person, but I do believe in the saying "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". This belief has been a crucial obstacle to my becoming a multi-millionaire.

durito · 03-23-08, 01:30 PM

There's nothing wrong with it.

Most sports gamblers are very dumb. They don't see the difference in +2 or +3

He can't get beat by a sharp -- he isn't conversely offering -2 when the market is -3. He's offering a line of +2 -110/ -3 -110.

He won't get business from anyone with a clue, but that's a good thing.

awhitejackson · 03-23-08, 01:47 PM

Why wouldnt these idiots just call and say "whats the line on Miami New Orleans" Never mention only one team....Thats the only way to deal with a local bookie...If they move the lines often times its on the side you want and you hammer it...If not you just stay away... Guess there are some real lazy people out there..

And No I dont believe its wrong....If they want a totally fair shake they should do the adequate homework....

flyingillini · 03-23-08, 03:47 PM

[QUOTE=erybdyducksth;623637]

Originally posted by capitalist pig

What a douche commiting felony conspiracy charges. You make me laugh my Asssss off. Really dude is that the case. Against all isnt moving enough money to even be on a radar of any law enforcement agency's....... Against do you need any more clients?

I agree with this. It might be all fun and games and you can make some good coin but all it takes is one person to blow the lid on you if they get mad or jealous and you can be doing time.