Is there really such a thing as a Professional Horse Player?

[SlickFazzer]

I just dont see how you can profit long
term playing the horsies....

[str]

Yes. I knew many over a 25 year span when I worked there.

[sharpcat]

Very few these days now that the tracks have gotten greedy over the years and are taking 15%+ out of the pot. It is hard to overcome these odds and most players that are still in the game are longshot players looking for situations where the public is over betting a favorite.

Most who are still playing horses have moved to exchange betting which makes it very possible to find value.

Greedy racetrack takeouts have led to the demise of horse racing over the years NJ is currently doing the best thing to revive the industry and looking into exchange betting.

[DrunkHorseplayer]

Only way to win long-term is to bet on the exchanges or bet big amounts offshore while getting generous rebates; you won't find them at the track anymore.

[ronald]

Yes. Richkas and General.

[philswin]

Only way is to be in on the fix - especially in Harness Racing. Take out is too large to really make money otherwise.

[philswin]

The takeout is Horse Racing is worse than playing slots.

[jw]

Only way to win long-term is to bet on the exchanges or bet big amounts offshore while getting generous rebates; you won't find them at the track anymore.

I know three or four in the Uk ... not sure how anyone can do it playing on the tote ...
Fixed odds betting is a MUST if you are going to win long-term.

[Dirty Sanchez]

The only way you are a long term winner is hitting a Pick 6 for $250k or higher. Horse Racing is slowly dying, just ask the NYRA as they're bleeding money and the New York Gov't is trying to decide whether to help finance them

[pavyracer]

Richkas

[brxbmbers42]

absolutely. there is a big money tournament every yr in vegas for horse handicappers and the same couple guys are always right at the top. very difficult sport to handicap. way harder than sports IMO.

[ATP123]

ur not kidding, i won an entry to one in vegas i show up like a regular joe smo and a boat load of people plop out there computers with all of these outrageous forms and such above and beyond the normal program, but even so they still gotta get lucky.

[in2thethickofit]

I'm sure there are....why not?

[Reload]

There are still some out there. The takeout is tough to beat but you can do it with enough effort and bankroll.

[pokernut9999]

There are people that profit from everything.

[VegasM]

Probably impossible to make any money on the Horses any more. Only Shot is to maybe play in pools where they offer
reduced take-outs, such as the 12% take out Pick 3's at Remington Park. Another track, (name forgotten) offers a 0%
take out pick 4 once a week, on Friday I think. If you limit yourself to these, then maybe you have a shot. I've lost over
$55,000 playing the Horses over the past 34 years, and am about even betting sports over the same period. Does that tell
you something?

[Statman]

Thanks for prompting this discussion.

I personally have been playing thoroughbred horses for over 20 years mainly at Woodbine racetrack and I can say without a doubt, I am down thousands overall. There are too many variables to consider to feel confident that you'll win. I've heard but do not know if it's true that close to 40% of the daily 'on track' handle comes from owners and trainers. I suppose inside information is better than outside but still does not guarantee winning. I've often wondered how much the jockey's themselves wager on the races. Outside the paddock close to the walking ring, it's quite common to see them on their cellphones entering numbers and doing zero talking. The purses at Woodbine for thoroughbred racing are among the highest in North America. I personally enjoy the turf racing at Woodbine but I guess the "addiction" lives in everyone of us which is why we keep going back to the track and losing.

From a rebate perspective to illustrate how poor the incentives are at Woodbine, I received a letter from the Horseplayer Interactive group which is where all customers that have accounts are registered with. The letter was highlighting how a 1% rebate will be applied based on your wagering handle during a specified 2 week time in December. I thought about how some offshore places have been offering that or better for years before this letter came out. These guys are way behind the times. It's hard enough to win period but then to receive crappy rebates like 1% is a disgrace for the money that this track is pulling in.

[floridagolfer]

I know two. It can be done, but the amount of work these people put in would shock the uninformed. They live and breathe horse racing 24/7. And the adage — it takes money to make money — applies.

[SlickFazzer]

Great discussion guys.

Thanks.

[str]

I know two. It can be done, but the amount of work these people put in would shock the uninformed. They live and breathe horse racing 24/7. And the adage — it takes money to make money — applies.

This is so true!

[sq764]

Only way is to be in on the fix - especially in Harness Racing. Take out is too large to really make money otherwise.

this is just a ridiculous comment..

[sq764]

it absolutely CAN be done, especially with rebates these days... I know one person that profits based on simple volume + rebates.. It's simple math, if you are getting a 10% rebate and you can grind out a .93 ROI, you're profiting 3 cents on every dollar you push through the window... 3 cents doesnt seem like much, but if you putting 10k a day through the window, thats $100k a year profit

[pokernut9999]

It is like everything else , you can beat a race but not the races.

[jw]

I know one person that profits based on simple volume + rebates.. It's simple math, if you are getting a 10% rebate and you can grind out a .93 ROI, you're profiting 3 cents on every dollar you push through the window... 3 cents doesnt seem like much, but if you putting 10k a day through the window, thats $100k a year profit

ANYONE that can grind it out like that deserves respect ...

[wtf]

yes you can, only on an exchange

especially in the place pools, the disparities are ridiculous, plus you dont get skewed payouts cause the fav come in the money with your horse

nailed a huge one yesterday at tampa bay, 13-1 on track 22-1 on exchange, place pool dividend was 100% higher also

[ukbro00]

The takeout is Horse Racing is worse than playing slots.

There is a hell of a lot more skill involved in horses than the Slots...just sayin'

[grekos]

Yes there is.They play mostly inside info from trainers.They play offshore not to affect the odds also.

[philswin]

There is a hell of a lot more skill involved in horses than the Slots...just sayin'

You just need to have good information in Horses, not what you get in the program to even attempt to make money. PARX has about a 20 - 30% takeout tough to overcome, when they only return 75 cents on every dollar.

[unusialsusp5]

no one wins in long run. if they say they are they are deluding themselves or lying about it.

[mrmarket]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/5453310/Patrick-Veitch-Tormentor-of-the-bookies.html

http://www.amazon.com/Enemy-Number-One-Secrets-Professional/dp/1905156707/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292678816&sr=8-1

[patswin]

yes i have met a few

[cadillac pete]

It is a very tough sport to beat. I limit my wagering to the Triple Crown races and both Breeder Cup days. That's when I feel the most information is available to make sound wagering decisions. But that's just me.

However, if you just focus on specific meets or circuts you may be able to grind out a profit. I think limiting yourself to specific spots in this sport can be a key element for doing this long term.

[alling]

Alan Woods was worth $670 million when he died. He made most of it on the ponies. Heres a list of other successful horse players:

http://www.betgem.com/Famous_Bettors.html

[sq764]

no one wins in long run. if they say they are they are deluding themselves or lying about it.

this is loser talk

[big0mar]

I hit 70%