Goldvictory stole my winnings- 459 euros

[dhan]

turns out my son signed up using the same address as me without me realising.

I guess this is going to go against me. If I wanted to open multiple accounts I wouldn't put the same address for both.

We both bet at different addresses and if they looked at their IP logs they can see this. It was purely mistake that we both signed up at the same address. (We were living apart he was in Leeds and I was living elsewhere - i thought when he signed up he would have used the Leeds address not mine!) Do I still have a case or is this going to be the most expensive mistake I've ever made.

Goldvictory say the case is closed, I just find it incredibly convenient and unfair that they always wait to see if you lose your deposit before filing a case. (like stiff says). Anyone?

[pjesnik24]

so here is an idea people:
open an account with goldvictory and if you lose just open another account and if you lose again use the same IP like with the first account and goldvictory will return you the money

yeah right...

[bigboydan]

Here is the rule on this one:

# using a unique IP address. We only allow one unique IP address and one account per household. If multiple accounts are linked at any point during your betting activities the said accounts will be placed under investigation and will be closed.

If that is indeed what happen then they have cause to close your account, however I see nothing within the rule that states they can confiscate your funds without returning them to you at least. Maybe their are other rules in place, but we would have to examine the dispute. So with that being said, please fill out a complaint form and one of us will inquire on your behalf in order to find out all the details of your situation.

[GVstaff2]

Bigboydan, please note that in our rules we have clearly listed that we always refund back the initial deposit less charges. In addition also note that the posts submitted by dhan on SBR clearly indicate that we will refund him back.

Thanks
GV

[dhan]

I find it interesting that you choose to reply to this thread rather than any of the emails I have sent you.

[stiff]

GV,

Maybe I misunderstand:

If I sign-up for an account at GoldVictory, take a bonus, wager, lose, stop wagering......then 6 months later someone else in my household (Player B) signs up (using the exact same address information), takes a bonus, starts wagering

When in the process will you enforce the terms and conditions on the second person in the household having an invalid account? Will your sign-up application deny the second person that tries to sign-up with duplicative address information? I get the impression that your site allows the second player in the household to sign-up and it turns into a "no lose" situation for the book.....if player B loses the books ahead and never makes mention of the invalid 2nd account in the household .....but.... if player B wins the book cracks down at the time a withdraw request is placed and simply refunds the initial deposit?

[dhan]

i second that stiff.

I'd understand if they returned my winnings minus the bonus but they seem adament they want to keep everything. A silly mistake like mine and my sons should not be punished by a loss of €4262. I think there is a huge lack of reasonableness and common sense in this joint.

I'm sick of trying to get a straight answer from these guys. Its about time someone stuck up for themselves against this lot. It is clear from this thread that goldvictory are hyper sensitive about their bonuses and have an extremley trigger happy finger when it comes to cases like this. If I don't get my winnings refunded in the forseeable future I'll be contacting my solicitor straight away. I get so passionate about this kind of thing and I'm now ready to fight the case 110%, I'm sure the majority of you will be behind me.

Watch this space.

[dhan]

may i add hanging up on me and not answering my call backs is highly unprofessional

[darkio]

Ip static or ip dynamic

Hello

i read and i try to understood as much as my english can understand

all of member said

but one question for GVSTAFF2

my question is what happens if the same account connect on multiple ip
cause of dynamic IP does that means that where cheating the system and you're going to private the deposit and benefit made by the bets on goldvictory

i am concerning cause i wanted to create account but after this i'am afraid so that why i wnat answer for this case

cause my internet acces give only ip dynamic the result is when a certain time passed the modem cut off and a new ip is retrieve different before the cut off


thanks you

[GVstaff2]

Dear Dhan,

You have chosen to use SBR and we accommodate you. Our support answered all your email in total 5, the management answered 3 of your calls and forums answered the only email send. Apart from that I am assisting you also on this forum as well. Records indicate that we assisted you in full. Your reimbursement will be cleared within 24h. Rules clearly states what type of reimbursement you are entitled to. In addition can you email me the name of the person that hanged up the phone?

Stiff, your answer can be clearly answered if you check our T&C they are brief and specific. In addition the case you stated is already described in dhan posts. Normal procedures allow the first registered client to be left open but there might be restriction to credit further bonus. However each case is handle individually and actions may vary, furthermore actions may also be imposed by the local authorities. As you stated each rule can be used in various ways and it can lead to an easy way to obtain lost money back, for that reason each case is handle individually to make sure a fair result is obtained. Think about it what if the first account managed to withdraw winnings 6 months ago and the second account breached the rules? Shall I just close the second account and use the second deposit to cover the first registered account winnings? As you can understand it doesn’t work that way but it s good that you ask as it’s interesting to understand clients point of view.

Darkio, 80% of our clients use dynamic IP some countries have 60% of the IP’s reutilizes within a frame of 7 days, in other words conflicts occur daily. Also the rate of conflict is of around 40% but the fraud rate is less than 1% to be more accurate the current rate if of 0.5% in other words over 400clients registered two of them are abusers. On the other hand this 0.5% declared abusers are all reported to the local authorities were all of them had been 100% approved and restricted by the authority it’s self. You can be assured that if you follow our simple bonus rules you will have a pleasant stay.

Rgs
GV

[noyb]

i second that stiff.

I'll be contacting my solicitor straight away.

if i would be paid a cent every time someone on this forum says in a dispute with a book they are going to contact their sollicitor i would be a millionaire by now. the huge minority that wasn't bluffing and actually tried the legal road, no case of which i know has actually succeeded (but who knows i may have missed one or two that did).

normally you would have a much better shot using sbr or ibas. in this case however: altough i understand you are disappointed, you did actually break the terms and conditions you agreed to when signing up, so as long as your deposit is refunded your case with say ibas will never go anywhere.

[dhan]

First of all, sorry to SBR, I bet you're all sick of hearing about this now.

I emailed GV with this:

After consideration of your terms and conditions I continue to believe I am being treated unfairly.

Your terms and conditions state "We only allow one unique IP address and one account per household."

When my son changed his address to 'address 2' this surely means he is no longer affiliated with 'address 1' .So when I open an account under 'address 1' there is still only one account registered to the household, irrespective of where my sons account was initially registered. The very reason my son changed his address was to inform you that he no longer lives at 'address 1'. Does this mean your customers update their contact details for no reason as you will always look at what they put when they registered?

With this in mind I have not breached the terms and conditions.
Even the IP addresses will be different for the both of us.

Kind Regards.

They Reply:

Thanks for your email,

However note that once a client update his info the relevant information must be proofed by submitting new KYC and by providing proof of address. If this is not don’t legally we consider valid the first registered information that was validated by the KYC submitted. Note that the T&C clearly state the above stated.

Accounting Department
GoldVictory.com

My son claims he has never received any contact from gv asking him to provide these new documents and this is not listed in the terms and conditions as stated by goldvictory in the above message. Also please bear in mind I have said countless times to gv that we can both proove where we were living at the time by sending in time specific bank statements, photo ID etc. GV why don't you accept I am being honest here and show a sense of care to your customers? After reading this thread I would fully understand if you was dealing with a case such as KateG's where there is firm evience that she is probably cheating the system but I feel that I am paying for other peoples wrong doing and that you are grouping me in the same category?

It seems you are now making up terms and conditions (which I have already saved a copy of) in your defence.

The only terms I can see about this is:

"The Account Holder must submit the correct information during his registration. The Account Holders also agree to update this information should there be any changes to their personal data"

May I ask are all customers expected to just know that they have to resend bank statements to you when they change address. To the majority of people what the t and c's state is that would suggest you just need to update your personal details in your account. Sending bank statements is a hassle and one which most will not voluntarily choose to do if not asked (which you havn't done, neither through email or terms and conditions)

[dhan]

noyb,

I appreciate you might get sick of cases like mine and I'm sorry for relegating your forum to a medium to talk to the gv staff. Their email contact is terribly slow and this seems quicker. As for the comment about the solicitor I was very annoyed last night and was seriously considering doing exactly that. No, I don't know the success rate but I feel terribly hard done by. I calmed down a bit this morning. (until i got the email where they lied/provided false information about their terms and conditions to me.)

After review of the t and c's noyb I now feel I have not breached the terms and conditions. (Please read above thread) There was never an occassion where me and my son were both registered at the same address at gv. Yes, it appears my son signed up using 'address 1' however he then changed his address when he realised he wouldn't be returning home after University. Quite some time after he changed his address to address 2, I signed up to address 1.

The terms state 'we allow one unique IP address and one account per household'. Yes my son may have initially signed up using my address, but he changed this address soon after. Me and my son have NOT being living together for the past 2 1/2 years and we can provide the relevant documentation to prove this. As you can see above, GV say he should have sent in new bank statements even though they didn't ask for them at the time and even though it doesn't actually state this anywhere in the terms and conditions.

[noyb]

noyb,

I appreciate you might get sick of cases like mine and I'm sorry for relegating your forum to a medium to talk to the gv staff. Their email contact is terribly slow and this seems quicker. As for the comment about the solicitor I was very annoyed last night and was seriously considering doing exactly that. No, I don't know the success rate but I feel terribly hard done by. I calmed down a bit this morning. (until i got the email where they lied/provided false information about their terms and conditions to me.)

After review of the t and c's noyb I now feel I have not breached the terms and conditions. (Please read above thread) There was never an occassion where me and my son were both registered at the same address at gv. Yes, it appears my son signed up using 'address 1' however he then changed his address when he realised he wouldn't be returning home after University. Quite some time after he changed his address to address 2, I signed up to address 1.

The terms state 'we allow one unique IP address and one account per household'. Yes my son may have initially signed up using my address, but he changed this address soon after. Me and my son have NOT being living together for the past 2 1/2 years and we can provide the relevant documentation to prove this. As you can see above, GV say he should have sent in new bank statements even though they didn't ask for them at the time and even though it doesn't actually state this anywhere in the terms and conditions.

dhan, my post was meant to warn you calling your sollicitor and actually going that route is extremely likely will only cost you money and time, whether you are right or wrong doesn't even matter.
about the dispute: i assumed the dispute wasn't about home adresses in the first place, but about you placing bets recently from your son's house and IP, that in itself regardless of the rest is a breach of T&C (which for some reason Goldvictory takes disproportionate offense of, but i would assume that is widely known by now), but perhaps i have missed something here, so i won't comment further.

[dhan]

I appreciate your concern, thank you noyb.

As for the IP issue GV state in this thread:

"the rules clearly stated that we do not permit multiple account via one single IP. If this happens once or if this happened by coincidence we can accept that"

this seems to suggest that GV do try their best to play fair and be reasonable. (just not in my case). I'm offering GV to post mine and my sons IP log to show everyone that there should be no reason for suspicion about the IP logs. I think they know this because they changed their argument from 'you have conflicting IP logs (which from my account can only have happened once or twice maximum) to 'you have the same registered address' which of course I am challenging at the moment because we don't.

Awaiting your reply GV, either through email or here.

[GVstaff2]

Dear Dhan,

Sorry if I may sound a bit inappropriate but I suggest you read the Account Rules till the end it s just less than one page so it should not take you more than 10 minutes. It looks like that you stopped on the third paragraph

To assist you better, here is the most relevant part for your issue.
GoldVictory retains the right to examine and confirm the identity of its Account Holders. GoldVictory require, in accordance with the legislation that the documentation proving the Account Holder's identity is forwarded to its offices within 7 days.
Once more sorry for being inappropriate but here you stated that on the forums we are faster. Can I ask you then who is answering the email that you are placing here on the forum? It looks clear to everyone that the fastest way is the email as first you get the email then you come here to publish the content. I assume you are using SBR for another reason. Unfortunately we have to comply with the lottery and gaming authority not with SBR. The reason why we offer our assistance on this forum is to help SBR in understanding each case and to assist our clients better.

With regards to your IP for the third time I have to excuse myself as I may sound impolite but, please understand that your IP is not the issue. The problems is that we have two accounts registered at the same household, and this is against one of the main rules. Forget the IP completely, the IP linked your accounts and helped us finding out the issue. But you where locked ONLY cause two accounts registered from the same location. If the address was changed the client must have informed us and within 7days provided a proof of address.

Hope you understand that registering two account with the same residence is not allowed.

Rgs
GV

[noyb]

Dear Dhan,

Sorry if I may sound a bit inappropriate but I suggest you read the Account Rules till the end it s just less than one page so it should not take you more than 10 minutes. It looks like that you stopped on the third paragraph

To assist you better, here is the most relevant part for your issue.
GoldVictory retains the right to examine and confirm the identity of its Account Holders. GoldVictory require, in accordance with the legislation that the documentation proving the Account Holder's identity is forwarded to its offices within 7 days.
Once more sorry for being inappropriate but here you stated that on the forums we are faster. Can I ask you then who is answering the email that you are placing here on the forum? It looks clear to everyone that the fastest way is the email as first you get the email then you come here to publish the content. I assume you are using SBR for another reason. Unfortunately we have to comply with the lottery and gaming authority not with SBR. The reason why we offer our assistance on this forum is to help SBR in understanding each case and to assist our clients better.

With regards to your IP for the third time I have to excuse myself as I may sound impolite but, please understand that your IP is not the issue. The problems is that we have two accounts registered at the same household, and this is against one of the main rules. Forget the IP completely, the IP linked your accounts and helped us finding out the issue. But you where locked ONLY cause two accounts registered from the same location. If the address was changed the client must have informed us and within 7days provided a proof of address.

Hope you understand that registering two account with the same residence is not allowed.

Rgs
GV

out of curiosity: does goldvictory ask for any proof of adress by e-mail, post or phone after receiving notification of a change of adress by the customer? i have moved these last few years a number of times, and changed adresses on my account with multiple books multiple times. while it is true books sometimes ask for proof of new adress, i am not aware of any book which requires proof of adress, but doesn't ask for it and assumes the bettor will send the proof out of the blue on its own.
if gv asks for proof, that seems industry standard to me, if they don't but still expect the bettor to send it in, that's definitely not industry standard.

[GVstaff2]

“If this happens once or if this happened by coincidence we can accept that"

Coincidence meaning = A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged

In this case we have two accounts occasionally share the same PC with the same IP.
Two accounts registered with the same address.
Two users that provided proof of address showing the same address.
Two users that are relatives.

This is not coincidence this is a fact.

Apart from that in all post you forget to include

“If multiple accounts are linked at any point during your betting activities the said accounts will be placed under investigation and will be closed”

If you had checked the basic before registering you would have noticed the below

We only allow one unique IP address and !!!one account per household.!!!!

Once more note that the account was locked due that we are permitted to allow only one account per household.

Rgs
GV

[GVstaff2]

Hi noyb,

Yes on registration we ask for proof of address and it is automated, if we don’t supply a single set your account will be locked. In addition on each deposit, bonus and withdrawal we check both details and documents available manually. In other words the process is followed as per lottery and gaming authority request. As you clearly stated most companies do the same as most of us share the same local regulator.

Still it stays the fact that if you know that your relative registered using your address and you have clearly listed “one account per household” you should not register a second account. At least you must check the rules in full or at least email the company to confirm if this will constitute an issue.

Once more thanks for your interest noyb. Can you get in touch with us via forums@goldvictory.com please.

Rgs
GV

[dhan]

There is nothing to say that if you have a relative who owns a GV account you cannot have one so i can disregard the point you make there. You also clearly say in a post the 'IP address is not an issue, forget about it' so i can now disregard this point too.

We do not share the same address and I have told you we are able to prove this using bank statements or anything else you require.

My son complied 100% with this passage when he opened his account:

GoldVictory retains the right to examine and confirm the identity of its Account Holders. GoldVictory require, in accordance with the legislation that the documentation proving the Account Holder's identity is forwarded to its offices within 7 days.

and there is nothing in that passage which states that if a user changes his address he/she has to forward a new bank statement. Also, no email was sent to my son requesting a new bank statement. Even if this rule does stand when a user updates their address information, you forget to mention this point:

Failure to comply with this requirement on the part of the account-holder will oblige GoldVictory to lock the account until reception of the aforementioned documents.

So please tell me why you didn't lock my sons account 7 days after he updated his details until you received the relevant documents? It continues to still be active this very day!! If you would have locked my sons account and informed him to send a new bank statement then I would not be in this very position today. So yes I am ultimately holding you responsible for what has happened here.

I have told my son to send a copy of a dated bank statement with the relevant address on to you guys, what more evidence would you like?

At the end of the day if you're saying that your terms and conditions stand and that if a user changes their address they have to forward a new bank statement within 7 days or else you will lock the account, then you have just shot yourself in the foot because you are in breach of your own terms and conditions by not doing this to my sons account.

Answers?

[dhan]

Can i add that I was totally unaware that my son had initially signed up using the address that I did. (I make this clear in previous posts) I only found out when i rang GV up to understnad what the problem was. If you had requested my son to send another bank statement in and locked his account in 7 days if he didnt like it says in your terms then i would never be in this situation.

[GVstaff2]

Dear Dhan,

We are playing cats and dogs, if you understand the rules you will understand our point. In addition if you do not agree with the rules then you shouldn’t signed up for an account, you can’t just not agree with the rules and do it your own way. We have both your KYC and your son KYC both of them reside in the same address. If your son want to change the address he is free to do so but at the time of the bonus/registration you and your son proofed the same address on your KYC and that is NOT permitted. It is simple everything you write is not valid until you proof it, and this is not our rules this is the local igaming rules.

In addition locked or unlocked accounts if the account is locked and the address is the same we will still lock the second account. Think about what you stated, so I can register an account and get a bonus and maybe win, then I change address and the account get locked, then I register a second account on my father maybe win and to lock the account I change address, for the third time i register another account on my brother and so on! Don’t you think it s a loophole? It is irrelevant if an account is open or locked if the proof shows that your address is used by someone else you are not allowed to sign in for a second account.

Sorry Dhan but the case is closed from our end the refund will take place in less than 24h, I believe I answered all your questions one by one and at this stage you should have the full picture. If you still have more questions you are free to use the forums email but I have to assist other users on SBR.

Regards

[dhan]

I am not disagreeing with the rules, I am saying that you yourself have breached your own terms and conditions by not asking my son to forward you his new bank statement. If you were a legitimate company you would see that. You can't make up terms and conditions as you go along which is basically what you are doing.

Please answer my question:

So please tell me why you didn't lock my sons account 7 days after he updated his details until you received the relevant documents? It continues to still be active this very day!! If you would have locked my sons account and informed him to send a new bank statement then I would not be in this very position today. So yes I am ultimately holding you responsible for what has happened here.

[dhan]

So you are chosing not to answer my question now.

[dhan]

can't you understand that what I am saying is that if you would have locked my sons account 7 days after he changed his address, he would have subsequently taken the action to unlock the account. He would do this by sending you a new bank statement. Once you receive this new bank statement you would have changed his details to this address.

I am not saying once an account is locked I can open another, I am saying that if you informed him that the account was locked he would have sent you sufficient evidence to prove where he is living (which he has now done but you refuse to acknowledge or believe). and his address would be changed in your database.

It seems that your imcompetence at keeping to your terms and conditions have meant that both partys are at the same address. My son did everything you asked.

You also havn't refunded me the correct amount of my initial deposit. (and yes this is taking into account the €25 surcharge that you kindly apply!)

[dhan]

OK it's funny that goldvictory don't want to talk anymore after I ask them this.

I would just like to give a warning to everyone thinking about signing up to these people.

Before signing up here make sure you know the history of everyone who has ever lived in the house you live in, and make sure you know they don't have a goldvictory account. If someone else who has lived there has a goldvictory account already then you will only find out until you request a withdrawal from goldvictory, when they will close your account and run away with your winnings.

(they will let you bet with your deposit to see if you lose it but if you don't then they will just take all your winnings and close your account. This even applies if the person who was previously at the address updated their address on the goldvictory site, because apparently goldvictory ignore any updated contact details unless you send them a new bank statement, which the client is supposed to do on his/her own accord with no email request or anything in the t&c's to suggest this.)

They took €4200+ from me.

This may sound bitter but this is the way goldvictory operate and I'd like everyone to make an informed choice

[Justin7]

The dhan vs GV complaint has been forwarded to me. I hope to get to the heart of the issues quickly and resolve this.

[tomcowley]

Hey, GV, why don't you check for duplicate accounts on signup instead of waiting to see if they win before stealing their money?

[maybull7]

I have opened an account with GV, I have a 3G HSPA internet connection that changes my IP always. I emailed them to make sure there wasnt any problems, as I log in from my home connection also. I have no complains but I do think that this cases of confiscating funds from players are going in the long run to ruin online gambling.

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum

[SBRFORUM]Goldvictory[/SBRFORUM] always seems to catch a lot of players in this type of stuff (IP issues). Sometimes they have valid claims while other times they don't. Please feel free to fill out a complaint form and one of us will inquire to them on your behalf in order to find out all the details surrounding your dispute.

[Justin7]

I've been involved in several complaints with GV in the last month. In each instance I thought they handled it fairly. I wasn't involved in the one that started this monster thread though, or several others.

[maybull7]

First off, Welcome to the SBR forum

[SBRFORUM]Goldvictory[/SBRFORUM] always seems to catch a lot of players in this type of stuff (IP issues). Sometimes they have valid claims while other times they don't. Please feel free to fill out a complaint form and one of us will inquire to them on your behalf in order to find out all the details surrounding your dispute.

Hey no problem here! I emailed them and they responded that I was clear from problems. Thank you I was just replying to a thread that obviously caught my eyes. Sorry if I didnt explain me correctly.

[bigboydan]

Glad to hear this matter was rectified to all parties satisfaction sir. Usually things arise from internet cafes, static IP's, ect, ect. However like Justin7 mentioned above though, they seem to be pretty fair for the most part when we inquire to them on behalf of players.

[fixxer]

Hi

Just a few addition: nearly all bookmakers only do action against an account, when it's reviewed/security checked just after a withdrawal request, so GV is doing just the same as most bookies. Bookies accept nearly all deposits, let the users play - give chance for bettors to lose their money - and only shoots at the accounts when they win, after a withdrawal request, - before processing the outpayment - if they are suspicious. But this is the standard process for top SBR rated bookies too...

About legal actions....not a good choice. Only if a lot of money is involved in it, and the case is bright clear...as it'd cost time, money, and especially overseas legal actions are not easy to execute (different law system etc...)...on contrary, I haven't heard many cases when a bookmaker started a legal action against a bettor - maybe the reason is the same why it's usually not worth it for a bettor to sue a bookmaker.
IMHO a bookmaker loses more (money in the outright), if somebody asks the help of SBR, and the forum members AND mainly SBR gives them their support...decreasing the rating of a bookmaker could cost users for them....as for IBAS....not even worth a sentence.

Also it's obvious, that if a bookmaker is offering this much ammount of bonus, they will face a lot bonus abusers, and have a lot of cases, but it's good to read that according to SBR staff, they handle them fairly (I helped to a fellow from my country a little in one case, and I can agree in this, GV even handled that problem fair too).

About the last case.....very true, that it would be a loophole, if when somebody changes his registered address to a fake one, and opens a new account for another family member, GV would allow this -they should clearly forbid this...this process is clearly bonus cheating - still, I would be interested in the answer for the last question. (01:41 PM)

[andywend]

Anybody who opens up a new account with GoldVictory after reading of all the examples of where they tried to stiff winning players should have their HEADS EXAMINED.