Pure education for myself here is all...
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Only the part 2 is 90% correct. The Sharia Law part.Comment -
Islam is a religion of Peace.Comment -
Islam is the most misinterpreted religion. The Quran is very poetic and hence the reason why it is so ambiguous and misconceived.
There are several accurate statements however (pointed out by the "West"), but mostly it is misinterpreted, even by Muslims. One accurate assessment: On one hand, the Quran states many times that Christians are "People of the Book". On the other hand, in portions of the Quran, they are known as "infidels"
Would love to hear your response PacCause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Recreation
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Goater, you're Chaldean correct?Comment -
yeahCause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
To the best of my knowledge it is for the most part truthful.Comment -
Goat, in the Quran, the Christians or are not referred to as infidels nor are Jews. Christians and Jews are people of the book, infidels are referred to as polytheists and atheists. It is even a punishable offense to use this term against a Jew or a Christian under Islamic Law. Nowadays, the word has just become a joke and all these extremists use it against all non-Muslims.Comment -
I have never heard of the third part they are talking about.Comment -
Ok Sneakerhead, here is what I read right now.
The S9, V5 of the Quran (I will translate it the way I interpret it to the best of my ability (note that ambiguity may stem from this)
"Be aware. Fight and kill those who do not believe, wherever they may be."
Now, in the Quran, I can cite several places where Christians and Jews are indeed referred to as People of the Book (Ah-le-a-Kitab- not sure of the spelling exactly). However, throughout the Quran and the Sunna of the Prophet, it is stressed that those who are "nonbelievers" are those who have rejected the truth after it has been revealed to them.
In this case, the truth to Muslims is obviously the Holy Quran. In the past, when Mohammad tried to conquer Mecca and Medina, then moving to the Arab Pennisula and taking Christians under his reign who no longer wanted any part of the Byzantine Empire, they were given a choice. Settle in the villages/towns which were now Muslim dominated- IF: a) you convert to islam. 2) Keep your religion, however a jizya (tax) must be paid and in return your religion and your family will be protected 3) refuse both options (and refuse to leave- you will be slayed by the sword).
Essentially Sneakerhead, this is where part of this controversy stems from. At times, the Quran will only mention the "pagans" as "nonbelievers." But in the Hadith- the Sunna of the Profit- it clearly states that a nonbeliever is one who has rejected the true word of Allah even after it has been expressed to him/her, and hence, there is no place in paradise for these individuals. Hence the term "infidel" (i.e. nonbelievers).
It can be argued that this is referring to Christians/Jews who have denied Islam as the "true faith/religion". So for example if Christians are asked if they agree with something in the Quran, and they do not, how can they be considered "People of the Book" and also "nonbelievers" because they are ultimately rejecting the word of Allah?
Big contradiction here.
Thanks.
Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
You are correct Goat. There are what people refer to as two time periods of the Q'uran. The makkah and medina periods. During the earlier period before migration to medina is where the peaceful, more tolerant ayats are revealed. During the latter those ayats are revealed which no longer refer to jews and christians as 'people of the book' but infidels. Thus the majority believe that anyone who does not accept Islam after these ayats are revealed is a nonbeliever I.E a Kaafir.Ok Sneakerhead, here is what I read right now.
The S9, V5 of the Quran (I will translate it the way I interpret it to the best of my ability (note that ambiguity may stem from this)
"Be aware. Fight and kill those who do not believe, wherever they may be."
Now, in the Quran, I can cite several places where Christians and Jews are indeed referred to as People of the Book (Ah-le-a-Kitab- not sure of the spelling exactly). However, throughout the Quran and the Sunna of the Prophet, it is stressed that those who are "nonbelievers" are those who have rejected the truth after it has been revealed to them.
In this case, the truth to Muslims is obviously the Holy Quran. In the past, when Mohammad tried to conquer Mecca and Medina, then moving to the Arab Pennisula and taking Christians under his reign who no longer wanted any part of the Byzantine Empire, they were given a choice. Settle in the villages/towns which were now Muslim dominated- IF: a) you convert to islam. 2) Keep your religion, however a jizya (tax) must be paid and in return your religion and your family will be protected 3) refuse both options (and refuse to leave- you will be slayed by the sword).
Essentially Sneakerhead, this is where part of this controversy stems from. At times, the Quran will only mention the "pagans" as "nonbelievers." But in the Hadith- the Sunna of the Profit- it clearly states that a nonbeliever is one who has rejected the true word of Allah even after it has been expressed to him/her, and hence, there is no place in paradise for these individuals. Hence the term "infidel" (i.e. nonbelievers).
It can be argued that this is referring to Christians/Jews who have denied Islam as the "true faith/religion". So for example if Christians are asked if they agree with something in the Quran, and they do not, how can they be considered "People of the Book" and also "nonbelievers" because they are ultimately rejecting the word of Allah?
Big contradiction here.
Thanks.Comment -
years ago I asked a sheikh from Egypt will a jew or christian go to heaven. He answered yes. I was puzzled and asked how. He replied those who where ahlul e kitab before the revelation of the Q'uran sharif. It is crucial to understand the order of the order of how the ayats of the Q'uran where revealed to truly understand it complexity.Comment -
Sneaker,Ok Sneakerhead, here is what I read right now.
The S9, V5 of the Quran (I will translate it the way I interpret it to the best of my ability (note that ambiguity may stem from this)
"Be aware. Fight and kill those who do not believe, wherever they may be."
Now, in the Quran, I can cite several places where Christians and Jews are indeed referred to as People of the Book (Ah-le-a-Kitab- not sure of the spelling exactly). However, throughout the Quran and the Sunna of the Prophet, it is stressed that those who are "nonbelievers" are those who have rejected the truth after it has been revealed to them.
In this case, the truth to Muslims is obviously the Holy Quran. In the past, when Mohammad tried to conquer Mecca and Medina, then moving to the Arab Pennisula and taking Christians under his reign who no longer wanted any part of the Byzantine Empire, they were given a choice. Settle in the villages/towns which were now Muslim dominated- IF: a) you convert to islam. 2) Keep your religion, however a jizya (tax) must be paid and in return your religion and your family will be protected 3) refuse both options (and refuse to leave- you will be slayed by the sword).
Essentially Sneakerhead, this is where part of this controversy stems from. At times, the Quran will only mention the "pagans" as "nonbelievers." But in the Hadith- the Sunna of the Profit- it clearly states that a nonbeliever is one who has rejected the true word of Allah even after it has been expressed to him/her, and hence, there is no place in paradise for these individuals. Hence the term "infidel" (i.e. nonbelievers).
It can be argued that this is referring to Christians/Jews who have denied Islam as the "true faith/religion". So for example if Christians are asked if they agree with something in the Quran, and they do not, how can they be considered "People of the Book" and also "nonbelievers" because they are ultimately rejecting the word of Allah?
Big contradiction here.
Thanks.
Before you reply I just want to touch on what Mikal said. At that time I understand it was a different time period. Most Muslims I am acquainted with read that passage in the Quran and they tell me that the "infidel" strictly refers to those who worship idols (lets not get this confused with paganism). These individuals were also considered nonbelievers.
However, with that being said, this is definitely one of the most controversial passages in the Quran, and i'm sure different Islamic schools of thought interpret it differently.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Goat, I respect U that u try to get a better understanding by reading about it, and try to get a feel of what is and what is not, and u just don't make idiot statements like many others.
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Agreed Mikail. The Jews Christians and Muslims all believe we share the same God (for the Christians, most believe Jesus and God are one, even though Jesus is also referred to as God's Son).
So Mikail, do you think if there is a God, he is going to judge us on what religion we follow? Is he going to say, Muslims I will judge you based on whether or not you have followed the Quran, and Christians, I will judge you based on whether or not you have followed the Bible? This kind of thinking is absurd. If a God exist, he will judge us based on what we have done in our lives.
Religion will have nothing to do with whether or not we are granted entry into paradise.
Also, you say its crucial to understand the complexity of the Quran. However, if the Quran is indeed the "word of Allah" it will never be fully comprehended by ANY HUMAN.
If a God exists, he is omnipotent. Am I right? How can HUMANS even have the audacity to try to perceive the power of such a deity? We are clueless lambs Malik.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Goat, u make a good point. I even asked my Dad that once. I asked " what if a kid is born into a Christian family, lived a good, clean life, and his parents taught him Christianity and he abided by it and was a great person to others etc... He was jst following what his Parents taught him, does he go to hell also?
He answered, 1st, once a child has passed puberty, he has the duty to educate himself and find out the truth, BUT no one can say for sure except Allah (s.w.a.t) who will/will not enter heaven. Allah (s.w.a.t) is most merciful.Comment -
I do agree mankind will never fully understand the Q'uran anymore that what Allah has prescribed for us to understand. However I do disagree that religion will have nothing to do with whether or not we enter paradise. Islam is more than just a belief. It is also a way of life as well as an order. In the Q'uran and sunnah of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad is the answer to all of this worlds problems. We are just here in this world for a small time frame if we consider the hereafter. According to Islam we are all accountable for our good deeds as well as our bad deeds, and we will all stand judgement in front of Allah on the day of judgement. It is also imperative to understand that no man can take the burdens of anothers bad deeds. Therefore the main tenet of christianity is nullified because if Islam is correct(and I believe it is) then Jesus could not have died for our sins. They key to paradise is to do good here and refrain from what is bad. Ask forgiveness for our wrongs and develop a relationship with our creator. Get thru this life and make it to the everlasting paradise.Comment -
agreed Pac.
nice post. But then again, Muslims believe Jesus was one of the greatest prophets. I don't think a religion that came hundreds of years prior to Islam (and set forth numerous principles for the Quran to follow) can really be nullified, do you? Does nullifying the religion of Christianity essentially nullify the greatness of Jesus? And if so how does this alter the influence of Jesus in the Quran?Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet and messenger of God. There are prophets and messengers of Allah. Not all prophets were messengers. Jesus came with the gospels specifically to the children of Israel. Muslims believe in all the miracles that the bible speaks of him doing and more. The major difference is muslims believe that Allah alone gave him the power to do these things because there is no power or might except thru Allah. Muslims don't believe Jesus is God's son. Allah is above having son's or daughters. Mother or father etc. Allah is the creator and everything else is creation. To truly understand Jesus the way muslims do you have to understand that the gospels or new testament is not the original gospels that Jesus came with, but a changed or altered version.Comment -
Makail, I am already aware of all of this. I am very well read.
You said before that in the Quran is states that no man can take the burden of another man's bad deeds, then went on to say this may have implications towards the nullification of Christianity. But also noted that the Holy Book agrees that Jesus was indeed capable of these miracles.
My questions to you are)
1. Would God Grant any ordinary man access to this power?
2. Is a Prophet just a man?
If Jesus is more than just a man, then the bit about a man taking the burden of another man's bad deeds is irrelevant.
Also, Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. That he was essentially replaced by a look-a-like before he was crucified, so essentially, you guys don't believe that he "died for the sin of mankind". Am I mistaken?
Anyway, I love chatting about religion. I think it is very important and can see that you and Paco are very knowledgable. Thanks for all the insight, it is very rare to come by.
Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
going to sleep but will check back in the morning. good night guys. thanks again for the informative posts.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
My personal opinion is that no Allah wouldn't grant the power given Jesus to any ordinary man. The jews of this time were a stubborn and rebellious people and Allah gave Jesus these miracles out of his mercy on the jews. To show them that Jesus was indeed a man of God. Yes a prophet is just a man. A man Allah chose (he knows best) to deliver his message. No muslims do not believe Jesus died on the cross. Only it appeared to them that he did. Jesus was raised up to Allah.Comment -
Mikail, I had to give u 50 points for that great post. Make sure u use it on a halal veggie Pizza
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As a Jew but a not very religious person in any means, I want to say that I know a lot about all different religions and the Islam at it's "pure" form and not the form extreme people took it to, is the most peaceful religion in the world.Comment -
I suggest you all watch this documentary called 'Religulous' - it will be worth your time
'Bill Maher's take on the current state of world religion'
I respect this guy to the fullest, tells it how it is, and is not scared to shit on overly-religious lunatics.Comment -
Gr8 thread and hope ya'll continue b4 too many trolls show upComment -
Please explain this. If I am a christian and I murder 10 people, based on what is taught, I am going to hell. Is it not the same for the Muslim religion? For example, the hijackers for 9/11, they were excited for meeting the virgins in paradise yet they killed all of those people.
Do they look at it like a military soldier point of view, where they aren't murdering?Comment
