need help understanding mansion's exchange...

[pags11]

so I'm seeing these guys are a European book or something...I am having a tough time undertanding the vig for the games...from what I understand most games are offered at -104 and there is a 1% commission on winning bets...I am very interested in playing with these guys for next year and will be in my top three books by that point (along with pinnacle and matchbook)...if anyone can shed any light as to how to navigate around mansion, that'd be great...

also, aren't these guys worthy of at least an "A-" rating?...everything I have read from respected guys in the industry is that these guys are a must-have book and are very well run...

[imgv94]

and do around 2bil in bets a year.. I've heard

[Mudcat]

Maybe have a look at this

[Mudcat]

Just a further word on juice/commision. (Hopefully it simplifies rather than complicates).

All you need to do is add or subtract 1% from the line you see (depending on if the line is plus or minus).

So a line of +114 is actually about +113 (+112.86 to be exact.) A line of +320 is actually +317 (+316.8). I'm just deducting 1%.

A line of -105 is actually -106. A line of -290 is actually -293. Add 1%.

[mad]

Can you make your own market with Mansion?

[TLD]

Pags11,

There is both a sportsbook and an exchange at Mansion. The sportsbook was briefly spectacular value when they first opened, but now is useless for most purposes as they drastically increased the vig. They do offer good odds on teasers and they have the more player-friendly teaser tie rule, so they’re still worthwhile for that. But other than teasers, I doubt you’ll find much if anything to ever bet there, so I’d say go directly to the Sports Exchange tab after you log in.

I think it’s pretty straightforward after that. The various sports are listed down the left side. Click on whatever you’re interested in, say NFL games. That will bring up a screen similar to most other regular sportsbook sites. If you wish to accept an already existing offer rather than place an offer, simply proceed as if you were making a normal bet at a normal sportsbook. Except for the fee, which we’ll come to, you can completely ignore that this is an exchange and just place your bet.

So, for instance, on my screen right now I see the Carolina Panthers are available at +4, -104. (You’ll notice there’s another number right next to this information; currently it happens to be 110,199. That means $110,199 is the amount available, i.e., the maximum you can bet and get that line at that juice at this time.) To bet it, place a check mark in the box on that line, and click the “Add Selection” plus sign. This takes you through a pretty standard confirmation process where you fill in the amount you want to bet and such. Anyone who has bet at regular sportsbooks should be able to figure it out pretty quickly.

Just remember when deciding whether the bet has value to you that you have to mentally adjust the juice when you accept an offer like that. There is a 1% fee on accepted offers if they win. So if you bet $104 to win $100 in a case like this, you will in fact either lose $104 or win $99 because of the fee. So it works out to about a –105 wager.

Now it’s (slightly) more complicated if you want to make an offer rather than accept an offer. Let’s say in the above example you’d like to get the Panthers at +4, -102. Right now it’s available at –104 (which remember is really –105 once you factor in the 1% fee), so the best you can do is put in an offer and hope someone later chooses to match it.

To do that, first proceed exactly as above as if you were placing a normal bet at a normal sportsbook. Put the check mark next to the Panthers, click the plus sign, etc.

The next screen is where the process differs. In addition to filling in your bet amount, you now want to change the juice. You’ll notice in the bet information that the juice (in this case –104) is listed in a box with up and down arrows. You want the Panthers at –102, so click the arrows until –102 displays in that box. (Don’t tie yourself in knots trying to reverse it and think “What do I want to offer?” Stick with “What do I want to bet?” which in this case is the Panthers at –102. The software will do the work of converting it to the relevant offer.)

From this point, again just confirm it like a normal bet at a normal sportsbook.

What will happen is (unless by a bizarre coincidence someone posted an offer for the juice you wanted or better on the other side in the few moments it took you to go through this process) you’ll have posted an offer rather than placed a bet. To be sure, click on “Show Bets” at the top and click the plus signs to see your bets and your offers. You should see the Panthers +4, -102 as an offer. And if you scroll down through the lines themselves, you’ll now see the Seahawks available at –4, +102 (assuming no one had earlier offered +103 or better). That’s you. If and when someone takes that bait, you’ll have your Panthers +4, -102 bet.

And if you do have an offer accepted like that, you pay no fee. So your –102 is a legitimate –102. It’s only when you accept an offer that they skim off 1% if you win. So that’s an incentive to place offers. (By comparison, Matchbook takes 2% of your win regardless of whether you’re the one who made or accepted the offer.)

Hope this hasn’t just confused things further for you. Really once you play around with it a little bit I doubt you’ll find it too complicated. Just don’t make it harder on yourself by assuming that since it’s an exchange it’s some whole different process from what you’re used to. For the most part ignore that it’s an exchange and just place your bets, because the process overlaps 90% with betting at a regular sportsbook. Just remember that when you want to make rather than accept an offer, there is that slight variation on the confirmation screen where you need to adjust the juice to what you want. That’s it.

[pags11]

mudcat, thanks

TLD, very helpful, thanks as well...I'm heading over there again to figure it out some more...very interesting about not getting charged if you place an order, that's pretty cool...I will also remember in my head to had 1% to all offers (much like I do with the 2% at matchbook)...

[pags11]

OK, I don't yet have an account so maybe that's part of the problem...I have clicked on the exchange part, but every time I go to look at a game it's got the spread (which I obviously understand) and then under the odds it says 1.96...I'm not seeing the -104 or -106 so maybe I am looking under the wrong part or I need to open up an account...let me know on this guys...I really appreciate the help...

[pags11]

alright, I changed in from decimal to American and the -104's came up...think I got it figured out now...

[pags11]

guys, this is awesome...you can pretty much get any game you want at -105 or less...which is cool because sometimes a line you want gets inflated to -110 at pinnacle or matchbook, I am fired up about using these guys...now what is your experience in actually having your offer matched (as long as it's not totally ridiculous I'm assuming)...if you offer Carolina +4 -104, then does that mean that someone would have to be willing to take Carolina +4 -107 after the commission?...just trying to figure it all out...are there ever times where the lines fluctuate like they do at pinny or matchbook where you have one team +102 and one team -112?...

[TLD]

I logged out and am still showing the –104 type odds, so I don’t think it’s a matter of having an account.

At the top of the exchange page there are dropdown menus. Set the one farthest to the left on “American” and see if that does the trick.

[michael777]

tld,thanks,the way you explained it,even i understand now,i had no clue on how it worked,i will give them a try

[pags11]

TLD,

Do they accept neteller? If so, do they pick up instacash transaction fees? If not, it's cool. What about is there an initial deposit bonus (I'm assuming no because of the reduced vig). Also, do they offer referral bonuses? I'll keep looking but can't find out this info. right now. Thanks again for all of your help.

[pags11]

OK, I see that they do accept neteller...cool...how's the CS, do they speak good english...or is most of the CS done via email like Pinnacle?...

[magnavox]

The CS is great, no fees for Neteller deposits and withdrawals; you can take as many as you like.

[pags11]

OK, I see they have an toll free 800 number which is good. Do they charge for withdrawals? I believe they don't but want to make sure.

[magnavox]

...if you offer Carolina +4 -104, then does that mean that someone would have to be willing to take Carolina +4 -107 after the commission?...

If you offer -104 and it gets matched it is +104 for you. The other person takes -104 which for him/her is essentially -105.

[TLD]

(Sorry for the way my responses are too long so I’m sometimes repeating intervening posts.)

If you offer Carolina +4, -104 (i.e., you’re trying to bet Seattle –4, +104), someone accepting it would be making the equivalent of a Carolina +4, -105 bet, counting the fee.


Here are my thoughts on the Mansion exchange:

Positives:

Due to the offers they themselves make, you can almost always get no worse than a 10 cent line (-104 each side, which is –105 after the fee) for sides and totals on major sports, with really no limit (unless you’re trying to bet six figures or more). Of course there can be better available if regular players have made offers, but you’re generally assured of at least that much value.

Website does not time out, and constantly refreshes the exchange page automatically.

Neteller is free in both directions, as often as you like.

Fees are very low, quite a bit less than Matchbook or other exchanges.

I was going to list the customer service as a negative, in the sense that like Pinnacle there was no 800 number and so you had to do all your wagering and customer service online and by e-mail. But apparently they just added a toll free number, so that should help.

No reports yet that I’ve seen of stiffs, slow pays, bizarre rule interpretations, or anything to indicate they’re crooked or broke. They almost certainly lost huge early, but supposedly they’re backed by some mega-zillionaire who apparently hasn’t indicated any intentions of pulling the plug.


Negatives:

Offerings are very sparse. You can bet full game sides, totals, and moneylines, but no parlays, teasers, if-bets, halves, quarters, team totals, props, buying points, etc.

Before you can get a payout you have to fax them your personal ID, which some players object to.

Very little in the way of bonuses and other common sportsbook perks.

I’m not sure, but their site—probably because of the constant refreshes—seems to screw up my computer. I’ve tried different browsers, but it appears that each time Mansion refreshes (which can be every few seconds) my computer freezes for the two seconds or so that takes.

Be careful that they tend to take the games down sooner than most sportsbooks. So if a game is scheduled to start at 4:30 but really starts around 4:36 or so, they’ll take it down at 4:29 or 4:30 even though you can still bet it at most other sportsbooks for at least another five minutes.

My impression is their volume is way down, which means less bettable offers (and for that matter means a little more concern about their long term viability). So it is now less common to see offers that improve upon their own baseline –104s. When you place an offer yourself, it’s somewhat less likely to be matched than in the past. They used to offer multiple markets on each game (for instance, instead of just Seattle-Carolina at 4, you could bet or offer at 3, 3.5, 4.5, or 5), but they no longer even bother because they got so little action. I sometimes have that “ghost town” feel when I go there, like they themselves are the only ones making offers.


In summary, in the early going their sportsbook was spectacular value and their exchange was very good value. Today I’d say their sportsbook is virtually no value and their exchange is good value. In my opinion this is an out definitely worth having.

[pags11]

thanks magnavox...

[pags11]

TLD,

no apology necessary as your explinations have really cleared things up for me...I know what you are saying about the exchange format being like a ghost town...I do think books like matchbook and mansion will catch on here in the upcoming years...with football for instance I will probably make offers on Monday and if they don't get picked up by Sunday, just bet the -104 (which is really -105)...I agree that the 800 number is a plus...I spent $4.40 at kinko's about a year ago and have my ID saved on my home and work PC hard drive, so the ID thing isn't that big of a deal (currently uploading it to my email and sending it to them to put on file--getting it out of the way early)...I also noticed one must have an account opened for an extended period of time to play with larger limits (which is one of the reasons I opened the account today rather than before football season)...I'm usually not a last second better for the most part, but I'll remember that about them taking the games down early...thanks again for all of your help...

[TLD]

More than happy to help.

“I also noticed one must have an account opened for an extended period of time to play with larger limits.”

I’m not aware of this. Is this the sportsbook rather than the exchange? In the exchange, the only “limits” would be how much you’ve posted up and how much other players (or Mansion itself) are willing to offer or match. I assume you can open an account today and bet $100,000 on the Panthers at +4, -104 if you want to send them that much money.

[pags11]

TLD,

I believe this is in the exchange section...it has to do with the ammount of money they will allow you to deposit based on the length of time you have had the account...it's only like $400 (this may be per deposit, meaning you can do multiple deposits)...I figured it wouldn't hurt to open an account now, even if I don't fund it right away because of this...keep up the good work...you will add a lot to the forum...

[TLD]

I think I found the table you’re referring to on their site. Are you going to use a credit card? Because that’s the one that seems to have the absurdly low transaction limits. ($400 deposit per month until you’ve had your account at least ninety days). Neteller looks like $50,000 per transaction from day one.

[tink]

great thread. Why does it say on the minimum amount screen for tonight, Providence +12, $3674? Is that the MINIMUM you can bet for the game? Then when I click on higher amounts, it shows the minimums going up to around $50,000. How does this work? What if I only want to bet $200? And can someone really bet $50,000 if they want to? Thanks

[slash]

The minimum amount tab is used to remove all the low limit odds shown. For example if $20 at -103 is available somewhere, this is just added to the -104 instead to avoid having the small offers listed.

If you choose to have minimums of $50,000 you are basically choosing to have all offers below $50,000 removed from the screen. In many sports, no offers at all will be posted then.

To answer your question re providence and the $3,674 amount, you can bet anywhere from $0 to $3,674 on that selection - unless of course someone else takes advantage of the full offer before you. But unless Mansion choose to change the line, another $3,674 will be offered at the exact same price a short time thereafter.

[tink]

thanks for the info slash. So is it true Mansion will never limit an individual player since with an exchange they do not care who wins or loses like some other books? In other words, can a successful player be profiled by Mansion or Matchbook and have limits reduced or banned all together? Maybe a dumb question but trying to get a grasp on this thing.

[TLD]

In theory an exchange certainly shouldn’t have a reason to cut someone’s limits or ban them, and I haven’t heard of either of those shops doing so.

But I don’t think it’s far-fetched that it could happen. Until an exchange gets enough volume to step aside and just let the players bet against each other, it’s really more of a book than an exchange, and it’s subject to the same risks (one-sided action, getting middled, etc.) if sharp players are beating it to moves or otherwise gaining an edge.

Because they put up almost all the offers themselves, when you bet at Mansion, it’s typically Mansion on the other side of your bets, not another player. So when you win, you’re beating Mansion.

By analogy, a true exchange would be like a poker game where you’re betting against other players and the house is raking the pot, so you can win as much as you like and the house has no incentive to ban you. But an exchange like Mansion is more akin to a poker game where you play at an eight person table, and typically six or seven of your seven opponents are house shills playing with house money. In that case, they clearly do have a reason to care if you’re crushing them night after night.

But in any case, I haven’t heard about countermeasures being taken against winners at these places, so for now I wouldn’t worry about it.

[pags11]

TLD,

I'll be using neteller, so it looks like I'll be cool...I agree with you that as exchanges become more popular the liquidity will allow you to get a better number and juice combo...until then it will be mansion putting out a lot of the numbers themselves...

[TLD]

I’d assess Mansion slightly lower today than when I earlier posted in this thread. Mainly that’s because their volume seems to be dropping even more. The offers (which presumably are generally from them but occasionally from their customers) seem lower and lower. On the kinds of games where six and five figure offers were routine, now it’s more likely to be four figures. And for lesser games the offers are particularly paltry.

Actually even major games occasionally have little or no volume nowadays. I think there was an NFL playoff game, of all things, where there was literally zero offered on either side of the total at the time I happened to check it. And I’m not talking about a week before the game when it was too early for them to have it up, or seconds before kickoff when they had taken it down. This was an hour or two before the game.

So the “ghost town” feel is becoming stronger. I hope, though, that that turns around, because Mansion specifically and exchanges in general can have a lot of value if people actually use them.

[SBR_John]

So the “ghost town” feel is becoming stronger. I hope, though, that that turns around, because Mansion specifically and exchanges in general can have a lot of value if people actually use them.

Makes you wonder if outside of BetFair the exchanges have long term leggs. Sure they are great when they add liquidity but then they are just regular bookies...with regular ole risks.

[TLD]

Very true.

If I had to guess, I’d say the one that is most likely to succeed in getting enough Americans to bet exchange-style and thus reach critical mass without having to directly or indirectly add most of the liquidity themselves is Matchbook. Affiliation with high reputation WSEX, mostly positive early buzz in the forums, willing to put dollars and effort into marketing, etc.

One thing I’d like to see from them is differing fees for offers versus bets. Currently they charge 2% either way, whereas Mansion charges 1% when you accept an offer and 0% when you make an offer that is accepted. So if –104 is available and I take it, I’m getting –105. Whereas if I try for –103 by putting up an offer, if it’s accepted I’m improving my odds not one cent but two cents.

I think it’s wise to encourage offers like that, because you have to outweigh the negatives of making offers in the bettor’s mind. Those negatives being, one, when I make an offer I only might end up with a bet as opposed to locking in a bet, and, two, newbies are a lot more likely to be wary of making an offer than accepting an offer because the former differs slightly more from the procedure they’re used to. It’s not that it’s all that complicated when you get down to it, but it’s unfamiliar and that alone constitutes a disincentive for people.

[raiders72001]

Mansion charges 1% when you accept an offer and 0% when you make an offer that is accepted.

Good post but doesn't the winner pay the 1% whether it's offered or accepted.

[tacomax]

Good post but doesn't the winner pay the 1% whether it's offered or accepted.

Dearie me, it's back to basics.

Mansion charges 1% on a winning bet when you accept an offer and 0% on a winning bet when you make an offer that is accepted by someone else.

[raiders72001]

That's why I was asking sweetie.

[raiders72001]

Sweetie- How much you want to bet on that?