If America Has the Most Guns Per Capita....

[BigBollocks]

If America has the most guns per capita of any country in the world, do we also have the most gun violence per capita of any country in the world? I tried to find the answer to this online, and was unable to locate any per capita statistics. I get the Miami, LA, Chicago, and New York stations, and the amount of violent crime seems substantially more now than ever (granted our population has grown as well). I have a lot of friends from England and France (all substantially more polite than JamieUK mind you), and the first thing they all say when they come over here is just how high the tension and violence is stateside. Sick situation that seems will only get worse. Would love to hear others' opinions on this, including the 2nd amendment if you wish to go that far. Sick, sad world we live in...

[JBC77]

Just my opinion. I don't feel there is tension and violence in my neighborhood. Americans are divided by class. Primarily whites in the suburbs and blacks and hispanics in the cities. The lower classes need not apply for guns permits. They carry at will. Look at the murder rates of the major cities, LA, NY, St Louis.....then look at what class commits these violent acts.

So yes, we have a lot of guns. The good guys have to have them these days to protect ourselves from crimes that minorities commit.

For home protection, I recommend the Desert Eagle .50 caliber handgun. This handy tool is great for removing arms, legs and heads of home intruders, carjackers, muggers and crack dealers. It also tends to leave watermelon size holes in the torso's of the scumbags mentioned above.

What we need to do is stop the current pay to breed system. (Wellfare checks) Put up a 50 foot wall on the Mexican border and start arresting black and hispanic men who don't pay for there kids but keep making babies anyway.

[durito]

Just my opinion. I don't feel there is tension and violence in my neighborhood. Americans are divided by class. Primarily whites in the suburbs and blacks and hispanics in the cities. The lower classes need not apply for guns permits. They carry at will. Look at the murder rates of the major cities, LA, NY, St Louis.....then look at what class commits these violent acts.

So yes, we have a lot of guns. The good guys have to have them these days to protect ourselves from crimes that minorities commit.

For home protection, I recommend the Desert Eagle .50 caliber handgun. This handy tool is great for removing arms, legs and heads of home intruders, carjackers, muggers and crack dealers. It also tends to leave watermelon size holes in the torso's of the scumbags mentioned above.

What we need to do is stop the current pay to breed system. (Wellfare checks) Put up a 50 foot wall on the Mexican border and start arresting black and hispanic men who don't pay for there kids but keep making babies anyway.

A better strategy would be to deport racist people like yourself.

[capitalist pig]

I question that stat guns per capita. How the F does anyone know how many guns are in these mid eastern countries, and how about the ones in N Africa? Its not like there are any accurate details comming from those places on gun ownership. If Europeans think its violent here maybe they should visit some of the N and S African countries, I guarantee they will change their minds on the US. I spent some time as a private contractor in S Africa (Rhodesia/Zimbabwe) after my stint in the US army , the people there are barbarians of the likes you will never believe unless you have seen it 1st hand. They make the be-heading in the mid east look like amatuers when it came to brutality.

My kid tells me in Iraq AK-74s sell for $2-4 US dollars, and that everyone owns them. He himself has several to play with when not on duty. Having said that he also says there arent as many available now there as there were the 1st time he was there a few years ago.

My only problem with gun related violent crime statistics is that they include suicides, which they shouldnt.If you look at the CDC #s, 50% of gun related deaths in the US are suicide or accidental shootings, so IMO throw that 50% out the door. Bottom line IMO is you can get whatever kind of #s a person is looking for, depending on your source.Compare the NRA #s to the Brady #s, and anyone with half a brain can see that the #s are used to support a certain groups agenda.

Hey, when you used to come here, did you ever visit Marx Armory and Gun Fun in PC? I was a range master there for a long time.

later

[curious]

If America has the most guns per capita of any country in the world, do we also have the most gun violence per capita of any country in the world? I tried to find the answer to this online, and was unable to locate any per capita statistics. I get the Miami, LA, Chicago, and New York stations, and the amount of violent crime seems substantially more now than ever (granted our population has grown as well). I have a lot of friends from England and France (all substantially more polite than JamieUK mind you), and the first thing they all say when they come over here is just how high the tension and violence is stateside. Sick situation that seems will only get worse. Would love to hear others' opinions on this, including the 2nd amendment if you wish to go that far. Sick, sad world we live in...

America doesn't even come close. In parts of Africa the guns per capita is greater than 5. EVERYONE is packing. And not handguns, machine guns, mortars, rocket launchers, you name it.

In Iraq, every adult member of every household has one automatic rifle for the home, one in the car, and one at their workplace, plus one to carry while they walk around.

The 2nd amendment does not give individuals the right to own firearms. It specifically grants this right to self defence militias whose purpose is to protect the security of their community. The 2nd amendment says: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Now, of course, the founding fathers believed strongly that the biggest threat to the "security of a free State" would come from the federal government, so this Amendment basically says that the federal government cannot ban State militias by making it impossible for them to arm themselves.

The term "militia", has, of course, been twisted by the media to be a perjorative term, being used in context of criminal gangs and terrorist orgnaizations, but the original context of this word was the banding together of all able bodied male citizens to defend the community against outside threats such as Indians, criminal gangs, the federal government, etc.

In this country's early days most communities required each able bodied male citizen to own a musket, shot, and powder (at his expense) and obligated him to train with the militia and to respond to a call to arms to meet external threats.

This amendment was NEVER intended to mean that every tom, dick, and harry could buy and own semi automatic hands guns and rifles outside of the context of being part of a well trained local defense force.

Switzerland has a higher gun per capita ownership than the United States. Every Swiss male is required to be part of a local defense regiment and must own a rifle and ammunition that is kept in their house. They must train regularly and be prepared to answer a call to arms at any time. This is why Switzerland has not been invaded in a few hundred years. This is also why Hitler decided not to invade Switzerland. Guderian said it would be a nightmare. One of the reasons why Switzerland has a low crime rate is that everyone knows that every able bodied Swiss male citizen is an expert marksman and has a high powered rifle in the closet and any threat to the community will be met with a large number of angry, well trained, well armed citizens. Of course, Switzerland has a community spirit that is lacking in the United States.

[BrentCrude]

All I know is that the people like Hillary,Obama and Rosie that don't want you or me to have guns for protection have hulking bodyguards that brandish the most powerful weapons.These are the same people that believe in affirmative action but their body guards all are white guys that look like Brock Lesnar.No 94 pound Jessica Lynch's guarding their backsides.

When the cop is at the donut stand 5 miles away and your door is being beaten down by a crackhead on Angel dust,I want a gun to protect myself.

[capitalist pig]

I disagree with your view of the 2nd Curious. I guess we are going to find out soon enough though with the SCOTUS taking up the cases on the 2nd in early 2008 regarding the right of DC residents to own handguns. If they rule in favor of the city of DC, it will set a very dangerous precedent that will create violence and civil war within our country.

Im betting they settle this debate once and for all, saying it is the right of the people to own weapons, regardless of where you live in the US. They (Feds) arent prepared to have a well armed civilian rebellion regarding this issue, and they know it.

later

[curious]

All I know is that the people like Hillary,Obama and Rosie that don't want you or me to have guns for protection have hulking bodyguards that brandish the most powerful weapons.These are the same people that believe in affirmative action but their body guards all are white guys that look like Brock Lesnar.No 94 pound Jessica Lynch's guarding their backsides.

When the cop is at the donut stand 5 miles away and your door is being beaten down by a crackhead on Angel dust,I want a gun to protect myself.

My take on this is that I think all able bodied citizens should be required to own a military style rifle and be well trained in its use, as part of a local defense force, and be required to defend their community from criminals. So, that anyone thinking of doing a home invasion or a robbery or drug dealing or anything else that threatens the well being of the community will know that he will be facing a large number of well armed, well trained, angry men and women.

[curious]

I disagree with your view of the 2nd Curious. I guess we are going to find out soon enough though with the SCOTUS taking up the cases on the 2nd in early 2008 regarding the right of DC residents to own handguns. If they rule in favor of the city of DC, it will set a very dangerous precedent that will create violence and civil war within our country.

Im betting they settle this debate once and for all, saying it is the right of the people to own weapons, regardless of where you live in the US. They (Feds) arent prepared to have a well armed civilian rebellion regarding this issue, and they know it.

later

I don't see how you can disagree with a direct quote of what the constitution says.

[Ganchrow]

According to this 2003 study (which I've not independently verified), the US had the highest estimated gun ownership per capita (among the countries with the largest 30 civilian firearm holdings) at between 83 and 97 firearms per 100 residents.

Switzerland, by contrast, has an estimated holding of between 31 and 61 firearms per 100 residents.

[capitalist pig]

According to this 2003 study (which I've not independently verified), the US had the highest estimated gun ownership per capita (among the countries with the largest 30 civilian firearm holdings) at between 83 and 97 firearms per 100 residents.

All these #s need to be taken with a grain of salt. That 83-97 # is misleading, Id bet that of those #s, less than 10 people out of the 100 probably own all those weapons.

later

[MrX]

Switzerland, by contrast, has an estimated holding of between 31 and 61 million firearms per 100 residents.

61 million per 100 residents?!

Holy crap, that's over a half-million guns per citizen. A bit overkill if you ask me, but I guess it kept Hitler away.

[Ganchrow]

61 million per 100 residents?!

Holy crap, that's over a half-million guns per citizen. A bit overkill if you ask me, but I guess it kept Hitler away.

Thank you.

Post has been corrected.

[Ganchrow]

All these #s need to be taken with a grain of salt. That 83-97 # is misleading, Id bet that of those #s, less than 10 people out of the 100 probably own all those weapons.

That's entirely possible.

A per capita figure is simply an average figure and does not claim to tell us anythhing about the distribution within a population.

[ronniejamedio]

america has the highest crime rates around among industrialized countries. we also have the most crowded jails, etc. list goes on. gun violence goes hand in hand with what happens here. I live in los angeles county, and teach in south central LA. its pretty ****ed up here. but I doubt its much different than chicago, detroit, new york, newark, etc.

you clean these areas up, gun violence will drop substaintially.

[atakdog]

A couple thoughts:

Capitalist Pig: Why shouldn't suicides be included? If (and I grant it's not proved, but it's strongly suggested by the statistics) the number of suicides is increased by an increase in the number of guns, why isn't that relevant to a debate about gun numbers' effects?

Curious: I don't remember the details, but I remember recently reading that there is a movement (which I imagine will not be successful any time soon) in Switzerland to change their mandatory gun ownership rule, because of an increase in gun murders. If I recall correctly, the actual proposal may have been that Swiss men keep their guns at home, but the ammunition be kept in central locations.

Curious et al: The plain language of the Second Amendment does support Curious's reading, at least according to most scholars; still, it is true that the Supreme Court may read it differently this term, in the case involving the District of Columbia's handgun ban. It seems quite likely that the vote will be 5-4, though which way, and how broad, are excellent questions. With Scalito and Roberts holding so much sway on the court these days, it could well be that the Amendment will be read to impose limits on the federal government's ability to regulate ownership by individuals, contrary to Curious's (and my, btw, and also most scholars') reading of it.

[Dark Horse]

The reason that Americans own more weapons than Europeans is capitalism. Guns are big money. Of course, what civilians do with those weapons is not the problem of the weapon industry.

Is there more tension in American society than in other First World countries? You better believe it. A good measuring stick is the po-lice. It completely changes the job description when getting shot at is a realistic expectation. In New Zealand cops don't carry guns. Why not? Because the people don't carry guns either.

Guns will be used. And they change the social landscape, drastically. Law eventually held the tobacco industry responsible. So there is still hope.

As to the weapons in Africa and the Middle East. Why not trace them to their sources? Who benefits from all these drawn-out conflicts? Who benefits from children carrying automatic weapons?

[Doug]

[jackpot269]

Right to bear arms