BetOnline downgraded to a 4 at TOW

SBR_John · 10-22-07, 08:05 PM

That was bogus. Shrink said the same thing but just a couple of months prior had them as one his top 10 books http://www.eog.com/news/full-article.aspx?id=15640 and still does.

This is an excellent book. I've been there twice recently. Bill Dozer has been there as well. Three others from SBR have visited there. I'm very comfortable with the rating.

Zeroed · 10-22-07, 08:15 PM

And the management is 100% reliable? It should be at an A book, i don´t care much about the rest.
Things like CS, nice outfits etc don´t help anyone if they decide to leave the building..

Who cares about the Shrink? I don´t, i would prefer to hear a comment about the "individuals involved in past shit books" John.
Is it true or not? Could they be dangerous?
And If not, why not? etc..

SBR_John · 10-22-07, 08:28 PM

Run a search and you will find a lot of threads here.

What I was pointing out is that sites went to them with their hand out for advertising. When they declined thats when the 4's started. No other reason. BetOnSports was a 10 at the same place you mentioned.

The mgmt of BOL sold to BOS some 4 years ago and setup in Panama. We rated them a C+ at the time. They couldnt stand BOS and got out of there. They have made progress every year since, basically improving a rating letter a year. They have a good long track record, invested heavily in their facility and staff and know how to train staff and run a book. They are good. So our opinion is they are an A- book.

Mudcat · 10-22-07, 09:45 PM

It is not an unreasonable topic. But you kick the legs out from under your own case by referencing TOW. TOW has lied so much, and had so many agenda-driven ratings, they deserve no credibility in something like this. ZERO.

You might as well say you saw it in the National Enquirer.

TOW questioning SBR would be like some suspended Double AA pitcher saying that Josh Beckett pitches all wrong.

I even agree with your point to some extent. The A- rating of BOL doesn't quite pass the smell-test. If you - or anyone - has anything credible to say about why they are worse than that, I would love to hear it. I recall JC had some relevant comments. I would suggest seeking that out rather than TOW.

I further recall that SBR responded to JC with a defensive and disappointing attempt to discredit him on a personal level. It was an exchange that contributed to my smell-test. I can't find it right now. It may have been on a different forum.

Anyway, sometimes personal experience must play a large role in these things and here's mine on this: trusting SBR recommended books has worked out very well for me. SBR has earned having me say that.

TOW has earned having me say they are a bunch of wieners who should not be trusted.

20Four7 · 10-22-07, 09:50 PM

I'm inclinded to believe what Mudcat had to say. Don't forget TOW has Royal listed as a 7 (users list it as a 4) and SBG at 6. Certainly Royal SBG sportsbook don't deserve the ratings being given there.

Zeroed · 10-22-07, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Mudcat

It is not an unreasonable topic. But you kick the legs out from under your own case by referencing TOW. TOW has lied so much, and had so many agenda-driven ratings, they deserve no credibility in something like this. ZERO.

I know, and mentioned it in my post.
I refered to TOW coz the rating there made me look at BetOnline and what SBR has to say about them. Please notice that i said "they may be correct here", i know they have a LOT of wrong ratings.

Originally posted by Mudcat

trusting SBR recommended books has worked out very well for me. SBR has earned having me say that.

For me too, but i was lucky that i wasn´t caught in the Cascade desaster. That was the point where i stoped trusting SBR blindly.
They like everyone else can be wrong, and i feel they are giving out an A- rating too easy again.

tacomax · 10-22-07, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Mudcat

It is not an unreasonable topic. But you kick the legs out from under your own case by referencing TOW. TOW has lied so much, and had so many agenda-driven ratings, they deserve no credibility in something like this. ZERO.

And they also have BetRoyal and Sportsbook.com rated as a 7. The same as Bodog.

Zeroed · 10-22-07, 10:30 PM

yeah yeah but who cares? TOW sucks, and if the reason for the downgrade is what John describes (no money for Roberto) i can believe that.

But what they write about BetOnline seems reasonable to me, even if 4 is too low (it prolly is).

What SBR writes in the BO review is mostly blabla, like:
BetOnline earned its position on the SBR Recommended List through hard work, innovation and experience. The sportsbook began taking wagers online as BestLineSports in Costa Rica in 2001"

My comment to that: they earned their place through hard work? So books like Centrebet or IASBet who are still B+ are slackers?
Innovation? What makes them so special?
Experience? 2001...oh well, guess they know a lot more than the others.

"However, BetOnline is not one of the all too common examples of a sportsbook that plans to get by on a home run website name while leaving other parts of the business lacking. BetOnline ownership has invested in experienced wagering and customer service managers who understand that the sportsbook's first priority is service over sales. This attitude is passed along to the staff during training classes that each wagering clerk and service agent is required to pass. BetOnline treats players with respect and aims to gain a player's loyalty by providing VIP level service."

My comment: who gives a shit about this? What does that have to do with trusting a book? Do other A and B books have bad CS, is that what this is trying to tell me?

"BetOnline is a good choice for the new or experienced bettor, especially those seeking relatively high wagering limits."

My comment: New or experienced bettor..sounds like that would fit every A book, don´t you think so.
And relatively high wagering limits is arguable, 1k on NFL Mls f.e. doesn´t sounds like much.

Instead of all this blabla, i would be more interested in stuff like:
Do they kick you out if you place "professional" bets?
Or do they maybe limit you?
How fast do they pay, and why the heck is my money safer there than at B shops for example? Financial rating A- what does that mean exactly?
I cannot find those things in that review..

louis · 10-23-07, 12:00 AM

Bet Online

I personally do not like having to call them from 9 AM to 1 PM to request withdrawals. It is possible to request withdrawals on chat at any hour, or send an email to payouts, but in a couple cases it was necessary to call them.

I would prefer to request withdrawals 24 hours a day using an online form.

I had one withdrawal that was delayed without a good reason.

A second withdrawal was done promptly, but they continued to charge a fee, like most of the other sportsbooks.

It continues to be my opinion that sportsbooks should not charge fees for withdrawals, unless the customer requests withdrawals excessively.

In order to test if betonline is an A book, they have to be involved in a player dispute involving a large amount of money and then I would like to see how they rule. I would like to see how they would handle $50K in winnings from an advantage player after discovering something they allowed should not be allowed any more. My guess is they would rule in favor of the players, but they have not been an A book long enough to make sure they are operating with no complaints. I don't care if someone who use to work for BOS now works for betonline. BOS had thousands of employees, they are probably working at all the sportsbooks in Costa Rica now.

My opinion of betonline is a B until they have been tested; SBR has actually visited them in person so I respect SBR's rating, but my personal rating based on my experience is a B. They have just not been quite up to par with Olympic, WSEX, Jamaica, 5dimes, etc. etc.

The other books deserve their A rating, except for bookmaker which charges a fee to transfer money to their sister book, diamond, running on the same server. Bookmaker is a B+ in my opinion until they become more reasonble with their fees. If they want to charge a fee for doing this transfer more than once a week, that is fine, but once a week a customer should be able to do this tranfer for free.

WSEX allows free transfers to Olympic, by the way, and neither charges a fee.

TOW · 10-23-07, 02:06 AM

Paying promptly is unfortunately no guarantee of longevity. Every book that went under was paying promptly before tanking.

Instead, and quite surprisingly, most of the slow pay books are still around (and still slow paying..but paying).

As John knows I have my good share of contacts in Panama thanks to the prolongued time I spent there fighting the Govt to get the Panam players paid (over $250,000 in cash, an irrelevant issue for Mudcat).

I do not share the confidence SBR has in Betonline. IMHO there are at least three major issues with this book that makes it deserve a rating (4) which should induce players to caution.

Mudcat, as I mentioned in a reply to you at EOG, the only agenda I smell is yours. I have yet to read a positive comment from you. Yes, there have been mistakes made and some wrong assumptions as well, but there has been good deed too. Not surprisingly nothing matters to you but the mistakes which are supportive of your speculations and allegations.

For the record I turned down an ads proposal from Betonline not once but twice. So much for your "eye opener", nothing else than the 1,001st false allegation you made about me.

Keep up the good work.

SBR_John · 10-23-07, 03:23 AM

Glad to have you back roberto!

My point was BetOnSports became a perfect 10 at your place and the EOG had BetOnline as a top 10 book in the world in June. You both threw them under the bus in the same thread at the EOG when they decided not to advertise.

You downgraded them because they had run ins with the law? Laughable. Has WSEX had any run ins? How about CRIS? Whatbook has not had some run in? Have you visited their new facility in Panama? An excellent operation, you should go. You go on to say you wouldnt take ads from them??? I call major bullshit on that statement. You took ad money for BetonStars and Rich Coast and have a banner up for Sportsbook.com right NOW! (busted

)

You know about the Sportsbook.com scams and you have them rated at 7?

Welcome back. I will try to take it easy on you while you try to figure out why books you have at 4 are playing like clock work and your 7's are stealing players money.

TOW · 10-23-07, 03:55 AM

Life always reserve room for mistakes (like SBR having Cascade as a B+ when I had no pay warnings out on them

)

We all live and learn and amend, where and when possible.

True, Betonline has a fantastic new facility....BoS was also impressive, you recall? I made the mistake of being impressed by facilities and have learned not to take that factor into consideration anymore.

5dimes has one of the crappiest facilities but an impeccable reputation. Their rating would be much lower than what they actually deserve should the "facility factor" play a major role and have a bigger weight in their assessment.

Yes, I took money from the Rookie books and I actually ended up paying it back to players (via the insurance some 28K) or giving it up as contribution towards some bailout relief programs...lets just say I (rightly so) paid for that mistake.

Sportsbook.com ... not a catch since I told you about the ads deal couple weeks before they actually went up.

As I mentioned I was working on a couple of disputes before I had to undergo the most recent medical treatment and will hopefully have satisfactory resolutions at hand this week.

Let me just say that I reserve any decision when everything has been said and done on these two disputes.

SBR_John · 10-23-07, 04:23 AM

I think everything has been said and done roberto. Sportsbook.com and SBG are scammers, period.

We had many many robbery reports on BetOnSports before they ran. You ignored them the same way with the ole "Let me just say that I reserve any decision when everything has been said and done on these two disputes." These thefts are even worse. I think you need to get off the "reserve" list and start calling a spade a spade good buddy!

TOW · 10-23-07, 04:29 AM

Well,

In the BoS case (the disputes raised in June 2006 following their 50% 12x cash bonus campaign) I went through IBAS which eventually ruled against the player.

We may argue as much as we want on IBAS rulings however it is a fact that in the old U.K. system an adverse IBAS ruling could have lead to the non renewal of the betting license, an edge SBR, TOW or any other third party dispute assistance service ever had...

SBR_John · 10-23-07, 04:36 AM

I remember the case but never saw it heard. I assumed it was dismissed because the book was out of business.

TOW · 10-23-07, 05:11 AM

Yes, it was heard and ruled upon few days before heaven broke loose.

Rollins08 · 10-23-07, 05:49 AM

Recently I've noticed an agressive tone with the customer service of Betonline. Their customer service reps seem to be pretty clueless and if you call 5 times you may get 5 different answers to a question. For example one night I was waiting for a moneygram payout and everytime I called they told me I had to wait another half hour, but they would always give a different reason. One person would say the names aren't in yet. Another person would say I didn't request it in time, but then he checked and said the name would be available shortly. I called back about 5 times and finally talked to a supervisor. His response to me questioning him was "at any other book it would take weeks to get paid". There is never an apology or them admitting that they did anything wrong. It seems that in the past 2-3 months they have taken on a "customer is always wrong" policy. That being said, I have always gotten paid by them.

SBR_John · 10-23-07, 07:30 AM

Thanks for the feedback rollins.

Lets go Betonline... check how the reps in CS are treating your players. Guy is trying to get his Moneygram credited. He's a customer, treat him like one.

raiders72002 · 10-23-07, 08:42 AM

Mudcat, as I mentioned in a reply to you at EOG, the only agenda I smell is yours.

this doesn't surprise me at all.

cthatche · 10-23-07, 09:49 AM

Do Not Use Betonline

This past weekend I submitted a deposit to Betonline through the Western Union by a recommendation of the accounting staff. $900 + and $85 fee + a 35% free play bonus never saw my account. It turns out that someone in their accounting saw my info just lying around and called me with a false name to send the money too. I then had to call back to them with the claim number. Within 5 minutes Western Union called me to verify I wanted to release the funds. Of course I said yes, and they were disbursed to someone but evidently not Betonline. After calling 5 or 6 times that evening everyone involved had left for the day. The next day was Sunday and all they could do was run phone logs and try to figure out who called me. They've gone from trying to say that the calls never happened to waiting for more info. So I got put off again until Monday. Monday shows up and all the upper management talk about it and decide that they need another 48 hours to think about what they are going to do. They claim they have there eye on someone, but that doesn't help me at all. They should have put the money in my account by now but I'm still waiting to see if I'll ever see that money again. I try to go by the SBR ratings, however this is the worst sportsbook ever. Even if I was robbed by an employee and the rest of the staff are actually credible, they have not handled the situation appropriately. THUS, STAY AWAY FROM BETONLINE THEY ARE CROOKS.shit

Rollins08 · 10-23-07, 10:10 AM

cthatche,
I have a few questions. First how were you getting a 35% free play bonus? I've only received 10 or 15% at most, also they cover your fees for over $300 like most books. Second why would they call you with the name? They generate a name when you call them and ask for one, then you call back and give them a control number. Third why would western union call you to disburse the funds? This e-mail sounds a little shady. Please explain. Thank you

Zeroed · 10-23-07, 10:33 AM

No sursprise that i see the first "BO customers" here, who are not impressed by a "staff of 300 trained super CS reps", but rather have a complain about this book

Too bad that this partly turned into a "John chitchats with Rob" thingi, i guess you didn´t feel like explaining the "blabla review" SBR has written on their page.
I guess in some way SBR is not so much different to those other sites, does BO pay good John?

Zeroed · 10-23-07, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by raiders72002

this doesn't surprise me at all.

Raiders, you dont like people that write the same shit again and again..and still you cant hold yourself back and do the same when you see mudcat posting something? Lame

Bill Dozer · 10-23-07, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by cthatche

This past weekend I submitted a deposit to Betonline through the Western Union by a recommendation of the accounting staff. $900 + and $85 fee + a 35% free play bonus never saw my account. It turns out that someone in their accounting saw my info just lying around and called me with a false name to send the money too. I then had to call back to them with the claim number. Within 5 minutes Western Union called me to verify I wanted to release the funds. Of course I said yes, and they were disbursed to someone but evidently not Betonline. After calling 5 or 6 times that evening everyone involved had left for the day. The next day was Sunday and all they could do was run phone logs and try to figure out who called me. They've gone from trying to say that the calls never happened to waiting for more info. So I got put off again until Monday. Monday shows up and all the upper management talk about it and decide that they need another 48 hours to think about what they are going to do. They claim they have there eye on someone, but that doesn't help me at all. They should have put the money in my account by now but I'm still waiting to see if I'll ever see that money again. I try to go by the SBR ratings, however this is the worst sportsbook ever. Even if I was robbed by an employee and the rest of the staff are actually credible, they have not handled the situation appropriately. THUS, STAY AWAY FROM BETONLINE THEY ARE CROOKS.shit

cthatche,

You should see the funds and bonus in your account now. BetOnline says they have also credited you for the $85 in fees for the inconvenience. They also tell me that they initially asked for 48 hours on Sunday to investigate the theft of your deposit.

Rollins08 · 10-23-07, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

cthatche,

You should see the funds and bonus in your account now. BetOnline says they have also credited you for the $85 in fees for the inconvenience. They also tell me that they initially asked for 48 hours on Sunday to investigate the theft of your deposit.

Wow, since this is true its a huge problem. I know I won't feel comfortable sending them a western union anymore. And I'm always skeptical of giving my information to anyone but now I will have to rethink giving anything to Betonline.

cthatche · 10-23-07, 11:21 AM

Rollins08: To answer your questions @ betonline you get a choice of low juice or freeplay bonus. I choose freeplay bonus which is 35% when depositing over $1000. They do cover fees, but in my case their records never showed me depositing any money.

I called them originally to deposit using a credit card as I had done in the past. I needed to deposit over 1000 to get the 35% bonus I desired. My bank card only allows transactions of 1000 per 24 hours, so I used it for 900 and another card for 200. The two hundred went through fine. However I was called back about the nine hundred (I couldn't make this deposit since my card had previously been processed at betonline for the limit allowed) So the account manager suggested that I call Western Union. He gave me an individuals name to send to. I called Western Union and Sent the money. Then I called betonline to give the control number. The money never went in the account. I called them and they said they don't even allow western union credit card payments anymore and that the name was not one of theirs. I called back to western union and the money had been picked up.

Western union called to make sure I wanted to allow the funds to go through (fraud protection).

Since posting my first statement, The management @ betonline.com have called me to correct the situation. They have now credited my account properly and appologized for the inconvenience. There is still not an explanation of who took my money, however they are investigating and have changed some policies to stop this from happening in the future. I jumped the gun on my previous post, Dave Johnston account director took care of everything. It just took longer than I had hoped. My believe is that it was not the books fault but an employee of the book. I guess that could happen @ any sportsbook.

Originally posted by Rollins08

cthatche,
I have a few questions. First how were you getting a 35% free play bonus? I've only received 10 or 15% at most, also they cover your fees for over $300 like most books. Second why would they call you with the name? They generate a name when you call them and ask for one, then you call back and give them a control number. Third why would western union call you to disburse the funds? This e-mail sounds a little shady. Please explain. Thank you

Bill Dozer · 10-23-07, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Rollins08

Wow, since this is true its a huge problem. I know I won't feel comfortable sending them a western union anymore. And I'm always skeptical of giving my information to anyone but now I will have to rethink giving anything to Betonline.

It's not a new scam. Usually the scam works with someone claiming they are from a book and calling from home or a phone booth. The scammer is actually not affiliated with the book and pockets the cash. Players should never make a deposit with someone who calls them.

It would be very hard for an in-house employee to get away with this at any decent book. Between call logs and cameras the employee has no way out. What the book does need to look at is who was involved and if the player could have been part of the scam. This employee did not really think his plan through. Unless he is on a plane he will spend a lot of time in jail.

SBR Lou · 10-23-07, 11:29 AM

Just yesterday John made a post missing Roberto. Now you're rolling around in the mud with him over BOL and ratings? Is this your love/hate relationship?

paul Mordeeb · 10-23-07, 11:31 AM

Zeroed, Is there a better rating site then this? Or are you just trying to make the best better?

I used to have problems with SIA and SportsBook.com before finding this site. Now I have no problems with Bookmaker, Greek and matchbook.

Rollins08 · 10-23-07, 11:51 AM

cthatche, sorry for doubting the story. I understand now.

Bill, If the book never received the money because the scammer collected the western union, then why would the book give in and credit his account, unless they knew of a problem before? I've had similar problems with Betonline when they knew of a problem but didn't do anything to resolve it and then lied about it. The problem occurred using there triopass deposit method. The money would be debited from my bank account but I could not put it in my betonline account. Betonline said it was a triopass problem, triopass said it was a betonline problem. I would call one cs rep and they would say this is the first time they had a problem. Then I would call another and they would say this happened before and they were working on fixing it. I would call another time and they would say that it was not there problem. Eventually the problem was resolved and I stopped using triopass. My point is that there is such a lack of communication and failure to accept responsabilty for an A- book. I still use them because i've always gotten paid which is the most important thing. But they don't treat their customers very well at all, and about half the time it is a hassle dealing with them. They need to work on training their staff big time. Twice I've called in to place an if bet and the person taking it had no idea what I was talking about.

Bill Dozer · 10-23-07, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Rollins08

cthatche, sorry for doubting the story. I understand now.

Bill, If the book never received the money because the scammer collected the western union, then why would the book give in and credit his account, unless they knew of a problem before? I've had similar problems with Betonline when they knew of a problem but didn't do anything to resolve it and then lied about it. The problem occurred using there triopass deposit method. The money would be debited from my bank account but I could not put it in my betonline account. Betonline said it was a triopass problem, triopass said it was a betonline problem. I would call one cs rep and they would say this is the first time they had a problem. Then I would call another and they would say this happened before and they were working on fixing it. I would call another time and they would say that it was not there problem. Eventually the problem was resolved and I stopped using triopass. My point is that there is such a lack of communication and failure to accept responsabilty for an A- book. I still use them because i've always gotten paid which is the most important thing. But they don't treat their customers very well at all, and about half the time it is a hassle dealing with them. They need to work on training their staff big time. Twice I've called in to place an if bet and the person taking it had no idea what I was talking about.

If the book thinks there was even a small chance that the player's deposit was stolen they have to take responsibility for that. If it's held up with an intermediary like Neteller that has to be resolved even though the book uses and recommends a Neteller.

Zeroed · 10-23-07, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by paul Mordeeb

Zeroed, Is there a better rating site then this? Or are you just trying to make the best better?

No SBR is the best, but it doesn´t help kissing their asses.
As i mentioned before, i was lucky that i didnt have a shitload of $$$ at Cascade..and i deposited there back than because of their good rating at SBR.

Now dont get me wrong please, SBR has no crystal ball and maybe it was just bad luck (and a bastard named Lenny), but when i see a book like BetOnline at A- now i sometimes have a bad feeling about it.
BetOnline is not an Elite Book, they didn´t proove that over the years. Thus they should not be on a recommended list along with names like the Greek, Pinnacle or Wsex. This is a very different league.

SBR is not perfect, but there are more than a few people who *think* they are exactly that.
It is never wrong to throw out a little reminder:
NOONE will help you if such a book closes and decides to steal all the $$$.

louis · 10-23-07, 11:33 PM

Betonline is not a thief

This book has customer service issues, but they are not thieves or trying to steal customer money on purpose. Because of some bad customer service, I give them a B, but I have a lot of security that they will pay what they owe. With their checks, they have to be signed by 3 different people, it looks like, and that takes time. For large withdrawals, each of these managers apparently has to go through your account and verify everything. They send payments by Fed Ex from Panama City that arrive at my doorstep in the States the next day, but they wait 7 days sometimes to send them. They lack a form online to do withdrawals; a complaint I have with Justbet as well.

On the other hand these guys are not thiefs. They are friendly on the phone and I disagree that they have an "I don't care" attitude towards the customers. I have spoken to them and every issue seems to be disorganization and growing pains to me. They have called me to make sure I have received checks. I think we are all suspisious of them because they have not been an "A" for many years like Olympic and Wsex. SBR did visit them in person and they didn't look like they were broke.

I'm going to keep doing business with them, but can not yet trust them with the same amounts I would with Olympic, Wsex, 5 dimes, and Legendz. Unfortunately I can not bet with Pinnacle. For those who can, they are probably the most reputable sportsbook in the world. They paid out every penny to Americans before they left our market. It was a LOT of money.

SBR_John · 10-24-07, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by crazyl

Just yesterday John made a post missing Roberto. Now you're rolling around in the mud with him over BOL and ratings? Is this your love/hate relationship?

Yea, you got me on that one.

I always welcomed him when he was new and pulled for him. I knew we could always perform better. He has been his own worst enemy but I still like the guy. He's smart but as long as short term profits guide him he will never be successful in this industry imho.

The BetOnline rating is an example of that just as his perfect rating of BetOnSports was a pay off. When you have SBG, BetUS and Sportsbook.com rated ahead of BetOnline you just dont have any creditability. Shrink did the same thing, rated BetOnline as the top 10 book in the world until they didnt want to advertise. Then they were no good LOL. These guys would be so much better off taking a long term approach and rating these books fairly even if they dont advertise with them.