Greatest Pitching staffs ever????

Willie Bee · 05-06-10, 09:14 AM

Two staffs come to mind. Check out the 1966 Los Angeles Dodgers. Granted, the team got swept in the Series, but they went that entire season pretty much with a four-man starting rotation. Koufax, Drysdale, Osteen and Sutton started 154 of LA's 162 regular season games. Joe Moeller started the other eight.

Their numbers were ridiculous as well. LA was about a half-run better than any other NL team in ERA, the staff combined for 20 shutouts, and the staff WHIP was 1.127. That's one-point-fcuking-one-two-seven for the entre staff!

The next time a team made it through a full, 162-game season using only five starters was in 2003, the Seattle Mariners.

The team that swept the '66 Dodgers in the Fall Classic was the Baltimore Orioles. The staff the O's had from the mid-60s to the mid-70s might have been the best, if only terms of how long the Baltimore arms kept it up. Palmer, Cuellar, McNally and Dobson were of course the four 20-game winners in 1971 that get a lot of mention. Lost in that noise was the work of guys like Eddie Watt, Moe Drabowsky and Pete Richert.

Chi_archie · 05-06-10, 09:16 AM

weren't Gibson and Carlton on the same staff at some point with the Cards Willie? did they have any other decent starters then?

Carseller4 · 05-06-10, 09:20 AM

Baltimore Orioles in 1970/1971

1970 McNally/Cuellar/Palmer....Starters 79-37 3.15 ERA
1971 4 20 game winners 81-31 record 2.99 ERA

gryfyn1 · 05-06-10, 09:28 AM

the early 70s A were great too, anchored by Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue and a pre arm injury Ken Holtzman.

The earlt 50 Indians w/ Early Wynn; Bob Lemon; Bob Feller & mike garcia

ClipCan · 05-06-10, 09:45 AM

84 Tigers

Jack Morris
Dan Petry
Milt Wilcox

Willie Bee · 05-06-10, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

weren't Gibson and Carlton on the same staff at some point with the Cards Willie? did they have any other decent starters then?

I'd have to go look up exactly when Carlton got dealt to the Phils. Can't recall if it was before or after the '71 season. But yeah, Lefty and Gibby were together as big members of the St. Louis staff for several seasons. I know Jerry Reuss was also in there a couple of those seasons. Nellie Briles is always an overlooked, under-mentioned arm for the Cardinals in the late-60s, early-70s.

Originally posted by gryfyn1

the early 70s A were great too, anchored by Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue and a pre arm injury Ken Holtzman.

The earlt 50 Indians w/ Early Wynn; Bob Lemon; Bob Feller & mike garcia

Good call on both of those teams. I'd have really liked to have seen Feller pitch in his prime. Once I get my way-back machine working, I will

Crayzee · 05-06-10, 09:49 AM

69 mets
79-70 o's
72 a's
gas house gang

Willie Bee · 05-06-10, 09:51 AM

From our "He's a homer" Department: The 1980 Houston Astros.

The first half of that season, nobody could touch Houston's pitching staff. The rotation was Nolan Ryan, J.R. Richard, Joe Niekro and Ken Forsch. Plus you had Joaquin Andujar and Vern Ruhle as swingmen between the rotation and pen. In the pen, it was a three-headed closer committee with Joe Sambito, Dave Smith and Frank LaCorte.

It's a shame what happened to J.R. in midsummer and beyond. Coulda' really been a Hall of Fame contender.

denn333 · 05-06-10, 10:12 AM

tend to agree

gryfyn1 · 05-06-10, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Willie Bee

Joe Sambito,

sorry, as a Red Sox fan that name made ne throw-up a little and relive the horror of '86

Bluehorseshoe · 05-06-10, 10:12 AM

What about the A's in the early 90's? Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Moore, Scott Sanderson.....

Welch won 27 games one year.

gryfyn1 · 05-06-10, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

What about the A's in the early 90's? Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Moore, Scott Sanderson.....

Those guys weren't very good, they just played on amazing good offesive teams and racked up W's

Bluehorseshoe · 05-06-10, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by gryfyn1

Those guys weren't very good, they just played on amazing good offesive teams and racked up W's

That is an insane statement. Look at their pitching stats.

gryfyn1 · 05-06-10, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

That is an insane statement. Look at their pitching stats.

Ok, Welch won 27 Games in 1990 --

He ranked 9th in WHIP, 7th in ERA+, 21st in K, 27th in K/BB

Sanderon has one good year 1990 won 17 games

17th in WHIP, 26 in ERA+, 19th in K, 16 in k/bb,

Dirty Bay Player · 05-06-10, 10:33 AM

Pittsburgh Pirates 2010:
Paul Maholm
Zach Duke
Charlie Morton
Brian Burress
Jeff Karstens

Whoops - you said the best staff ever.

feldzpar · 05-06-10, 10:41 AM

86 Mets

Darling 15-6 (2.81)
Gooden 17-6 (2.84)
Fernandez 16-6 (3.52)
Ojeda 18-5 (2.57)
Aguilera 10-7 (3.88)

jlgarciaiii22 · 05-06-10, 10:42 AM

Early 80's Los Angeles Dodgers

Fernando Mania!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bluehorseshoe · 05-06-10, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by gryfyn1

Ok, Welch won 27 Games in 1990 -- He ranked 9th in WHIP, 7th in ERA+, 21st in K, 27th in K/BB Sanderon has one good year 1990 won 17 games 17th in WHIP, 26 in ERA+, 19th in K, 16 in k/bb,

What about Dave Stewart?? 4 years in a row he got 20 wins.

Just because you have good hitting doesn't mean you automatically get 20 game winners. When was the last time the Yankees had one?

gryfyn1 · 05-06-10, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

. When was the last time the Yankees had one?

Waaaaaay back in 2008 ...

And yes Stewart was a good pitcher, he's no HOFer, but overall a solid pitcher during his 87-90 peak, but again he was top 10 in WHIP once(90), top 10 in ERA+ once (90) once, K/9 once (87), K/BB zero time.

Stewart was an amazingly durable pitcher and led in the league in GS 88-91, batters faced 88-90, was top 5 in CG 88-90, was top 3 in IP 88-90.

pat venditto · 05-06-10, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by gryfyn1

Waaaaaay back in 2008 ... And yes Stewart was a good pitcher, he's no HOFer, but overall a solid pitcher during his 87-90 peak, but again he was top 10 in WHIP once(90), top 10 in ERA+ once (90) once, K/9 once (87), K/BB zero time. Stewart was an amazingly durable pitcher and led in the league in GS 88-91, batters faced 88-90, was top 5 in CG 88-90, was top 3 in IP 88-90.

This guy knows his stuff.

gryfyn1 · 05-06-10, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by pat venditto

This guy knows his stuff.

bookmark http://www.baseball-reference.com/ --

-- do, it, now

BGS 9.5 · 05-06-10, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Carseller4

Baltimore Orioles in 1970/1971

1970 McNally/Cuellar/Palmer....Starters 79-37 3.15 ERA
1971 4 20 game winners 81-31 record 2.99 ERA

FTW

Bluehorseshoe · 05-06-10, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by pat venditto

This guy knows his stuff.

You mean Google knows it's stuff.

Willie Bee · 05-06-10, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

What about the A's in the early 90's? Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Moore, Scott Sanderson.....

Welch won 27 games one year.

The A's had some solid arms, no doubt. But my opinion is the best pitcher they had pitched at the tail-end of games, Dennis Eckersley.

Welch had a great season in 1990 when he was credited with 27 wins. But it really wasn't his best season statistically. Judging a pitcher's effectiveness by looking at his win column, or save column with relievers, is simply wrong. Kevin Tapani had 19 wins for the Cubs in 1998...with an ERA approaching five. Nolan Ryan was 8-16 in 1987 with the Astros...and led the NL in ERA.

Chi_archie · 05-06-10, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by feldzpar

86 Mets

Darling 15-6 (2.81)
Gooden 17-6 (2.84)
Fernandez 16-6 (3.52)
Ojeda 18-5 (2.57)
Aguilera 10-7 (3.88)

ah I remember that team, that was my first year watching baseball really....that I remember

BeatTheJerk · 05-06-10, 11:50 AM

What is this ............... It sounds like a MoFome thread over there across the street, but the difference is he makes 45 of these daily while you might do a few a week which conceivable. I couldn't really disagree with your assessment on the group you chose.

Chi_archie · 05-06-10, 12:01 PM

its a gambling/sports forum.... I like to shoot the shit about sports..... also I'm down on my thread starts quota for the quarter.... Paid posters gotta eat too ya know.....

if you don't like the thread title... don't click on it

HighVoltage · 05-06-10, 12:01 PM

1906 Chicago Cubs with "Three Finger" Brown (26-6), Ed Ruelbach (19-4), Jack Pfiester (20-8), & Carl Lundgren (17-6)

None of us were around, but that team was 116-36, 76.3%. True dominance.

BeatTheJerk · 05-06-10, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

its a gambling/sports forum.... I like to shoot the shit about sports..... also I'm down on my thread starts quota for the quarter.... Paid posters gotta eat too ya know.....

if you don't like the thread title... don't click on it

Shut up Now you really sound like Mofo.

BeatTheJerk · 05-06-10, 03:05 PM

I didn't fvcking diss you my friend. Read it again.

eidolon · 05-06-10, 05:41 PM

2010 Giants (ERA)
Sanchez (2.48)
Lincecum (1.70)
Zito (1.49)
Cain (2.84)

stealthyburrito · 05-06-10, 05:46 PM

early seventies O's comes to mind, definitely agree with the 90's braves, it was like three guys were trading off the cy young every year.

freeVICK · 05-06-10, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by eidolon

2010 Giants (ERA)
Sanchez (2.48)
Lincecum (1.70)
Zito (1.49)
Cain (2.84)

curious · 05-06-10, 08:52 PM

1996 Detroit Tigers

The 1996 Detroit Tigers had so much pitching talent that they used 16 starting pitchers.

But here are the top starters:
Felipe Lira 5.22 ERA
Omar Olivares 4.89 ERA
Greg Gohr 7.17 ERA
Justin Thompson 4.58 ERA
Todd Van Poppell 11.39 ERA
Clint Sodowsky 11.84 ERA

This was truly an amazing pitching staff with a team ERA of 6.38, the MLB record.