[dante1]

OK.

I see the lib media talking like you do about him failing to accomplish his agenda. I guess that's a talking point that you guys will stick with.

But in fairness he has already accomplished more than I expected. We have companies moving here, pipelines being built, coal being mined, cap spending increasing, consumer confidence and stock markets at all time highs. Best of all wages for the working class are starting to rise and more folks are working. Trump is taking on ISIS and NK and other difficult areas that Obama couldn't handle. I could name 20 more but you get the point.

Fixing Obamacare may be a win for your side. Time will tell. Tax reform will be done this year.

You may feel it's a win-win because of fake news and the general anarchy from the radical left. But in all seriousness nothing has changed since 2010 when the left moved more left and gave the working class to the Republicans. You are still losing every election and there is no push from the left to veer back to the center. And until there is you will rely on fake conspiracies and mirages.

so roy you buy into fake news.

very little possibility we can discuss anything at all if you believe all major news outlets are committing fake news. the news outlets that have been around for decades and centuries are all in a conspiracy to produce fake news. What I can't understand is how they figure out the logistics of that. What if CNN runs a fake news story. Here is the problem. All the other news organizations either have to buy into the story or attack the story. So what is it? They all buy in on a fake news story? Is that it? So tens of thousands of people are involved in a conspiracy to pass off fake news. some of these same people are real conservatives you know.

Roy do you ever think about the craziness of this theory? Please sit down and think about it for just a few minutes. Whenever a story is found to be lacking substantial proof it is pulled and an apology is made and often the reporters are canned. And that happens very seldom. The logistics of an entire group of unrelated people in on fake news is simply ridiculous. It can't happen in a free world.

I can not discuss intelligently issues with people that believe this is actually happening. Now if you do believe it. And you are positive please explain the logistics. CNN issues a fake news story and every other news agency buys into it. Does that make sense?

[brooks85]

so roy you buy into fake news.

very little possibility we can discuss anything at all if you believe all major news outlets are committing fake news. the news outlets that have been around for decades and centuries are all in a conspiracy to produce fake news. What I can't understand is how they figure out the logistics of that. What if CNN runs a fake news story. Here is the problem. All the other news organizations either have to buy into the story or attack the story. So what is it? They all buy in on a fake news story? Is that it? So tens of thousands of people are involved in a conspiracy to pass off fake news. some of these same people are real conservatives you know.

Roy do you ever think about the craziness of this theory? Please sit down and think about it for just a few minutes. Whenever a story is found to be lacking substantial proof it is pulled and an apology is made and often the reporters are canned. And that happens very seldom. The logistics of an entire group of unrelated people in on fake news is simply ridiculous. It can't happen in a free world.

I can not discuss intelligently issues with people that believe this is actually happening. Now if you do believe it. And you are positive please explain the logistics. CNN issues a fake news story and every other news agency buys into it. Does that make sense?

this shows the true level of stupidity dante disposes daily. Moron has no idea about who owns and runs the MSM.

[TheMoneyShot]

It's very simple math... if you give something away for free or requires no effort... people will take it.

If you require people to think and actually move their ass to get it... people won't go for it.

Pretty much explains the overall concept of the Obama Administration.

[TheMoneyShot]

On a more serious note though... I do shop at Walmart more than the avg dude. I'm all about lower prices... of course the Walmart near me is about a 2 min drive one way...

2 things...

1. I probably save around $1,000+ a year compared to other supermarkets in the area. You can do a lot with 1k.

2. While I'm in line waiting to check out... I think the ratio is about 3 to 10 on people using food stamps. That's way too high.

[dante1]

every night I record ABC, CBS, NBC and Public television news. I don't know if you know this but I am sure most of you do. If I watch a news segment on ABC almost without fail that same story will be on all the other news stations also. Oh they usually have one or two different but the main stories are broadcast on each of those stations. Which must mean that those stories are on other news agencies and broadcasters throughout the world.

so let us take this a step further, let us assume that one of these stories is fake news. okay ABC does a fake news story. now how many people working for ABC see this story and know it is fake. How many, hundreds, thousands. Just for the sake of argument let us just say 50 people. We all know that is an incredibly small number. So 50 people know this story is fake. How many of these 50 are conservative leaning, let us for the sake of argument say only 20. So those 20 people know a fake news story is being broadcast and they don't blow the whistle. They need not identify themselves they only need to blow the whistle. Why isn't that happening? Because there are no fake news stories, there are sometimes mistakes but intentionally done fake news story is an impossibility. It only takes some thinking and common sense.

another scenario. what is the main purpose of almost 100% of news organizations in a free society. To break news stories, yeah that is important. But, that isn't the main purpose. The main purpose of every news organizations in every free society is to make money. Tell me how can these organizations make money if they get a true reputation of delivering fake news. Actual fake news. News stories that are complete lies. I know of only a few that do that and they are all on the right. Main news organizations have been around for so long and nobody caught on to these fake news stories. Does that make sense.

Capitalism will not tolerate or allow news organizations to deliver fake news and continue to be financially viable.

Now I know this logic will mean nothing to true believers. Dwight and brooks and others will read this and will they think about the logic, absolutely not. They are convinced that something that cannot possibly happen in a free society is happening. And only because DT is telling them it is happening. However, when real proof is needed, examples of this happening. Nope, none. The only examples given is when a story is a mistake and quickly withdrawn. That is not fake news, that is an error.

[jtoler]

On a more serious note though... I do shop at Walmart more than the avg dude. I'm all about lower prices... of course the Walmart near me is about a 2 min drive one way...

2 things...

1. I probably save around $1,000+ a year compared to other supermarkets in the area. You can do a lot with 1k.

2. While I'm in line waiting to check out... I think the ratio is about 3 to 10 on people using food stamps. That's way too high.

I love Walmart prices also, I do most of my shopping there at like 2-3 am, nobody in store and just navigate like crazy.

[dante1]

It's very simple math... if you give something away for free or requires no effort... people will take it.

If you require people to think and actually move their ass to get it... people won't go for it.

Pretty much explains the overall concept of the Obama Administration.

so with your two top opinions you conclude that the Obama administration is to blame. hmmmm, you never gave any thought to the fact that he inherited a highly toxic economic situation and people who were never on food stamps now qualify for food stamps because of the magnitude of the recession. So because that recession automatically tossed millions of people into the category of needing food stamps, that in some way is President's O fault.

I just wish you people would take the time to think past your preconceived ideas and think logically about a situation. The economic situation at the time triggered more recipients into the welfare rolls. In fact, during the obama tenure the economic conditions vastly improved.

[TheMoneyShot]

I love Walmart prices also, I do most of my shopping there at like 2-3 am, nobody in store and just navigate like crazy.

I'm kind of upset. They actually closed the one near my home at 1AM now. And they reopen at 5AM.

I asked the manager one day why they did this? They said heavy shoplifting occurs between those hours. Unreal.

[TheMoneyShot]

so with your two top opinions you conclude that the Obama administration is to blame. hmmmm, you never gave any thought to the fact that he inherited a highly toxic economic situation and people who were never on food stamps now qualify for food stamps because of the magnitude of the recession. So because that recession automatically tossed millions of people into the category of needing food stamps, that in some way is President's O fault.

I just wish you people would take the time to think past your preconceived ideas and think logically about a situation. The economic situation at the time triggered more recipients into the welfare rolls. In fact, during the obama tenure the economic conditions vastly improved.

I just joke around man. Don't take everything I say so seriously.

[dante1]

I just joke around man. Don't take everything I say so seriously.

no hard feelings at all my friend, you are joking around and I get that but some people actually believe stuff like this and it is their entire argument. he got called the food stamp president by the R in an effort to belittle him when in fact those people automatically qualified because of the financial crisis.

[jtoler]

I'm kind of upset. They actually closed the one near my home at 1AM now. And they reopen at 5AM.

I asked the manager one day why they did this? They said heavy shoplifting occurs between those hours. Unreal.

Thats crazy to just close for 4 hrs. When I go at those times there is really no customers in the store. Huge supercenter, I went a couple weeks ago around 3 am and I saw like 1 other guy, I needed help in electronics and I walked all through the store and couldnt find a worker, cashier had to call twice on phone for help, there are about as many workers as customers in the place at those times lol other than stockers.

[Thor4140]

Meanwhile, the US will spend $1 trillion on the F-35 which does not fly and another $1 trillion to upgrade nuclear weapons. People is so stupid.

Don't you know the white collar type of crime is okay with a guy like Roy. If you ask him if we can also go after the free money (as in billions) the oil companies get while making billion dollar profits he goes mute. He wants to drug test all these people but when a politician said good idea lets test us also that bill got squashed.

[Thor4140]

so with your two top opinions you conclude that the Obama administration is to blame. hmmmm, you never gave any thought to the fact that he inherited a highly toxic economic situation and people who were never on food stamps now qualify for food stamps because of the magnitude of the recession. So because that recession automatically tossed millions of people into the category of needing food stamps, that in some way is President's O fault.

I just wish you people would take the time to think past your preconceived ideas and think logically about a situation. The economic situation at the time triggered more recipients into the welfare rolls. In fact, during the obama tenure the economic conditions vastly improved.

Lol Dante this isn't even thinking outside the box but I'm sure these partisan hack country killing nitwits never gave that a second of thought.

[Thor4140]

Food Stamps are mostly a scam, most of the people on food stamps here in hoods sell them off for fifty cents on the dollar to friends or neighbors to cash out and then support their booze and drug habits..

I'd really like to see Trump implement this!!!!!!!!!!!

Awesome idea. Start with the politicians since the gov't gives them everything

[JIBBBY]

Awesome idea. Start with the politicians since the gov't gives them everything

There is drug testing with law enforcement and other Government jobs.. Should include politicians as well..

Drug testing the millions of US citizens on welfare would be the best start to recovering our tax money and to weed out all the drug addicts on welfare..

In Compton LA, I can't tell you how many crack heads thru the years I've come across just waiting for the Government checks to come in the mail every month.. It's not like it's just a few, it's like most crack heads and alcoholics in the hoods are doing just that.. Free Government housing as well...

[dante1]

There is drug testing with law enforcement and other Government jobs.. Should include politicians as well..

Drug testing the millions of US citizens on welfare would be the best start to recovering our tax money and to weed out all the drug addicts on welfare..

In Compton LA, I can't tell you how many crack heads thru the years I've come across just waiting for the Government checks to come in the mail every month.. It's not like it's just a few, it's like most crack heads and alcoholics in the hoods are doing just that.. Free Government housing as well...

so a specific situation here please as an example.

so a person caught smoking marijuana in a state where it is not legal should be taken off food stamps. Is that what you are saying?

[JIBBBY]

so a specific situation here please as an example.

so a person caught smoking marijuana in a state where it is not legal should be taken off food stamps. Is that what you are saying?

Marijuana and Alcohol are basically legal drugs now.. Those I don't think you can enforce as a welfare violation....

Welfare recipients testing positive for the hard drugs/narcotics like Crack, Meth, Heroin, Opiods, etc.. those should be the target..

[chico2663]

[QUOTE=milwaukee mike;27067254]milwaukee doesn't count as "working class midwest"?

yes whites are on food stamps, never said they weren't, but not to the extent and to the length of time that blacks are


Blacks are about twice as likely as whites to have used this benefit during their lives (31% vs. 15%).

problem is that 55% of population is white. 13% is black. so just figure 100 people which means 55 x .15 =8.25
13 X.31-=4.01 See how that goes.

[chico2663]

Food Stamps are mostly a scam, most of the people on food stamps here in hoods sell them off for fifty cents on the dollar to friends or neighbors to cash out and then support their booze and drug habits..

I'd really like to see Trump implement this!!!!!!!!!!!

How could one man be possibly wrong so many times. Seeing they are on a card with a pin it makes it very unlikely.

[dante1]

Marijuana and Alcohol are basically legal drugs now.. Those I don't think you can enforce as a welfare violation....

Welfare recipients testing positive for the hard drugs/narcotics like Crack, Meth, Heroin, Opiods, etc.. those should be the target..

don't you think it might be a better idea to identify these people, keep them on the program and enforce a therapy of some sort depending on the situation. after all, drug addiction is now considered a disease and should be treated. just a thought, maybe if we treat these hard core offenders we can continue supporting their families and maybe even turn their life around. might be better than tossing them off the program and forcing them to maybe commit serious crimes.

[chico2663]

This is fake news. A drug test cost $10 to administer. Kicking someone off the program (which some have been on for their whole lives) would save 500x the cost of a drug test.

florida did that and lost money. The bill was put up by radel. I knew this asshole as a kid because his father and uncle own funeral homes outside of cincinnsti. He went to elder high school. Moved to fla. and became a congressman. He was busted for buying cocaine, resigned from congress and wrote a book.

[Buffalo Nickle]

There is drug testing with law enforcement and other Government jobs.. Should include politicians as well..

Drug testing the millions of US citizens on welfare would be the best start to recovering our tax money and to weed out all the drug addicts on welfare..

In Compton LA, I can't tell you how many crack heads thru the years I've come across just waiting for the Government checks to come in the mail every month.. It's not like it's just a few, it's like most crack heads and alcoholics in the hoods are doing just that.. Free Government housing as well...

If you want to save money, legalize the drugs and then you save $40,000 a year in govt housing for blacks on prisons.

[NrmlCurvSurfr]

drug testing not a bad idea but I think that qualifying foods should also be reevaluated. The other day I saw a lady use her stamp card to buy koolaid bursts and several of those little debbie boxed desserts(that is all she bought so i know stamps were used)...not only sucking welfare but also putting strain on the healthcare system down the road...not to mention personal health. system is whack.

[chico2663]

If i was poor than i think i would be doing drugs also. Where i lived in cincinnati we would see all these cars of hillbillies cars go on 2 streets.On one would be the crack addicts. Another street would be meth or heroin. 90% of them were white usually laborers. Now they have a new drug that you can buy over the internet from china called flakka or bath salts.

[chico2663]

[JIBBBY]

If you want to save money, legalize the drugs and then you save $40,000 a year in govt housing for blacks on prisons.

Not fully opposed to legalizing drugs, just not sure how that would effect America in the long term though?.. Drugs would be safer and cleaner so you might not have as many deaths from bad dope, however I do think you would have many more kids getting hooked on those hard drugs, crime might spike as well..

More tax money would have to be spent on rehab centers I believe if you legalized hard drugs.. I'd like to see the studies done and projected outcomes when legalizing hard drugs here in America? I can't comment on it myself but keep an open mind to it..

[milwaukee mike]

every night I record ABC, CBS, NBC and Public television news. I don't know if you know this but I am sure most of you do. If I watch a news segment on ABC almost without fail that same story will be on all the other news stations also. Oh they usually have one or two different but the main stories are broadcast on each of those stations. Which must mean that those stories are on other news agencies and broadcasters throughout the world.

so let us take this a step further, let us assume that one of these stories is fake news. okay ABC does a fake news story. now how many people working for ABC see this story and know it is fake. How many, hundreds, thousands. Just for the sake of argument let us just say 50 people. We all know that is an incredibly small number. So 50 people know this story is fake. How many of these 50 are conservative leaning, let us for the sake of argument say only 20. So those 20 people know a fake news story is being broadcast and they don't blow the whistle. They need not identify themselves they only need to blow the whistle. Why isn't that happening? Because there are no fake news stories, there are sometimes mistakes but intentionally done fake news story is an impossibility. It only takes some thinking and common sense.

another scenario. what is the main purpose of almost 100% of news organizations in a free society. To break news stories, yeah that is important. But, that isn't the main purpose. The main purpose of every news organizations in every free society is to make money. Tell me how can these organizations make money if they get a true reputation of delivering fake news. Actual fake news. News stories that are complete lies. I know of only a few that do that and they are all on the right. Main news organizations have been around for so long and nobody caught on to these fake news stories. Does that make sense.

Capitalism will not tolerate or allow news organizations to deliver fake news and continue to be financially viable.

Now I know this logic will mean nothing to true believers. Dwight and brooks and others will read this and will they think about the logic, absolutely not. They are convinced that something that cannot possibly happen in a free society is happening. And only because DT is telling them it is happening. However, when real proof is needed, examples of this happening. Nope, none. The only examples given is when a story is a mistake and quickly withdrawn. That is not fake news, that is an error.

"intentionally done fake news story is an impossibility"... then why has it happened time and time again? all you have to do is google "cnn fake iraq war footage" or "lax plastic dummy" etc etc etc

[dante1]

"intentionally done fake news story is an impossibility"... then why has it happened time and time again? all you have to do is google "cnn fake iraq war footage" or "lax plastic dummy" etc etc etc

the question is what % of the total are wrong? Very few are fake, a reporter may exaggerate once in a great while, my question is compared to the millions of news stories how many have been proven to be a complete lie. How many of those same stories were backed by other news organizations? How many of those stories that were backed by other news agencies were false. I would say that number is so very small to be actually not relevant.

but I may be wrong, show me the figures and the numbers. show me an actual story by these same news media what % of stories are fake. you know what my friend, if ABC was shelling out fake news, guess what? the other news corporations would be dying to tell that story because it would sell like crazy. and making money is the name of the game. nothing is sacred with these people, getting the story is all that is important. can't you understand that particular fact of capitalism. the name of the game is the story, what a great story if one of these actual organizations is selling fake news. that would be in the limelight for months. hasn't happened has it. or maybe they are all in on the fix--is that it?

[milwaukee mike]

the question is what % of the total are wrong? Very few are fake, a reporter may exaggerate once in a great while, my question is compared to the millions of news stories how many have been proven to be a complete lie. How many of those same stories were backed by other news organizations? How many of those stories that were backed by other news agencies were false. I would say that number is so very small to be actually not relevant.

but I may be wrong, show me the figures and the numbers. show me an actual story by these same news media what % of stories are fake. you know what my friend, if ABC was shelling out fake news, guess what? the other news corporations would be dying to tell that story because it would sell like crazy. and making money is the name of the game. nothing is sacred with these people, getting the story is all that is important. can't you understand that particular fact of capitalism. the name of the game is the story, what a great story if one of these actual organizations is selling fake news. that would be in the limelight for months. hasn't happened has it. or maybe they are all in on the fix--is that it?

it's a club, and we're not in it

you don't see news organizations out each other because they are owned by the same handful of people... and it's bad business just like you don't see mlb/nfl/etc players out each other for steroids, corked bats, etc

would you lie for a million dollars? how about a billion? or a trillion? news in the usa is mostly based on some big lies, mainly that we are under constant threat from some outside boogeyman even though we're surrounded by thousands of miles of oceans and have the biggest and best military on the planet

we're really supposed to be fearful of vietnam/laos/cambodia? or iraq/kuwait/syria/afghanistan/etc? we haven't declared victory in a war against any of these puny insignificant countries since ww2, we haven't made any country we invaded and occupied better... and yet nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care...

[dante1]

it's a club, and we're not in it

you don't see news organizations out each other because they are owned by the same handful of people... and it's bad business just like you don't see mlb/nfl/etc players out each other for steroids, corked bats, etc

would you lie for a million dollars? how about a billion? or a trillion? news in the usa is mostly based on some big lies, mainly that we are under constant threat from some outside boogeyman even though we're surrounded by thousands of miles of oceans and have the biggest and best military on the planet

we're really supposed to be fearful of vietnam/laos/cambodia? or iraq/kuwait/syria/afghanistan/etc? we haven't declared victory in a war against any of these puny insignificant countries since ww2, we haven't made any country we invaded and occupied better... and yet nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care...

really good points, but don't forget it isn't only the owners that are watching this fake news, it is everybody involved with that broadcast. they can't all be getting paid off. at least I don't think so.

and yes people can be bought off for huge sums of money Mike, but not everybody. you would need to get to everybody. I just don't think that is likely. but the rest of your second paragraph I believe is spot on. I am not sure it is lies but it is a culture of keeping citizens afraid, I don't think that is done so much by the news media but more by government. don't get me wrong we do have to worry about some things, but your point is valid. Terrorism is real but in the USA your chance of being killed by a terrorist is so slim you could probably win the lottery and get hit with lighting on the same day at better odds. I won't reject that part of your argument.

third paragraph is also true, but you must remember something. we are no longer able to fight conventional wars with these people. starting with vietnam these people fight an unconventional war, they realize they can't stand up and fight us like in ww1 or ww2, so it is difficult to completely defeat them. the ussr fought for how long and were beaten in Afghanistan. also these people are fighting what they believe to be a war to defend their religion and defend their country. doesn't matter if they are wrong or right, they are true believers. Imagine if someone was in our country. do you think you would give up easily when you are fighting for your beliefs and your family and friends. hey I don't have all the answers, your questions are not easy.

I am impressed by two of you guys today, you decided to actually debate the issues and brought to light some very interesting ideas, it would be so much better if politics could be an exchange of ideas. we can see that often other people that don't agree with us are not stupid, and have some valid points to make

having said that I have great difficulty buying into a world wide conspiracy of fake news, especially since that fake news is always about DT and his policies. when Rasmussen gave him a decent rating it was real news, up until then R was doing fake news. It is just too much for me to buy into

[JIBBBY]

Why would anyone want to take a drug like that? That's like bath salts where that dude went nuts and ate the face off a homeless person..

If I saw a naked crazed person running at my car I hit the gas and smack the zombie demon right out of them.. ..

[dante1]

Why would anyone want to take a drug like that? That's like bath salts where that dude went nuts and ate the face off a homeless person..

If I saw a naked crazed person running at my car I hit the gas and smack the zombie demon right out of them.. ..

this same thought went into and out of my brain often, it is so hard to understand. I also can't understand a drug like Heroin, I think most people know before taking it how addictive it is. why take a chance? to me it makes no sense.

btw, you wouldn't do the second paragraph part, I think you said you are a Christian, did I get that wrong?

[milwaukee mike]

really good points, but don't forget it isn't only the owners that are watching this fake news, it is everybody involved with that broadcast. they can't all be getting paid off. at least I don't think so.

and yes people can be bought off for huge sums of money Mike, but not everybody. you would need to get to everybody. I just don't think that is likely. but the rest of your second paragraph I believe is spot on. I am not sure it is lies but it is a culture of keeping citizens afraid, I don't think that is done so much by the news media but more by government. don't get me wrong we do have to worry about some things, but your point is valid. Terrorism is real but in the USA your chance of being killed by a terrorist is so slim you could probably win the lottery and get hit with lighting on the same day at better odds. I won't reject that part of your argument.

third paragraph is also true, but you must remember something. we are no longer able to fight conventional wars with these people. starting with vietnam these people fight an unconventional war, they realize they can't stand up and fight us like in ww1 or ww2, so it is difficult to completely defeat them. the ussr fought for how long and were beaten in Afghanistan. also these people are fighting what they believe to be a war to defend their religion and defend their country. doesn't matter if they are wrong or right, they are true believers. Imagine if someone was in our country. do you think you would give up easily when you are fighting for your beliefs and your family and friends. hey I don't have all the answers, your questions are not easy.

I am impressed by two of you guys today, you decided to actually debate the issues and brought to light some very interesting ideas, it would be so much better if politics could be an exchange of ideas. we can see that often other people that don't agree with us are not stupid, and have some valid points to make

having said that I have great difficulty buying into a world wide conspiracy of fake news, especially since that fake news is always about DT and his policies. when Rasmussen gave him a decent rating it was real news, up until then R was doing fake news. It is just too much for me to buy into

i'm equally impressed that we can discuss these things without name calling, everyone getting angry, etc

[chico2663]

Why would anyone want to take a drug like that? That's like bath salts where that dude went nuts and ate the face off a homeless person..

If I saw a naked crazed person running at my car I hit the gas and smack the zombie demon right out of them.. ..

Flakka is a bath salt made in china. They also if the parcel gets taken will send you new one out. It is crazy

[Ralphie Halves]

They had a thing in Maine last year where you could still be a druggie and get food stamps as long as you completed 24 hours of community service a month, so like 6 hrs week or so. 9000 people dropped food stamps as a result, which for Maine is a lot of people. Just not worth it I guess.