Matchbook Bankwire Nightmare

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  • pico
    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
    • 04-05-07
    • 27321

    #1
    Matchbook Bankwire Nightmare
    ok, i mentioned this before, but it has been over 4 months and my bankwire is still missing, and I just found out some other posters are having the same problem with matchbook's bankwire.

    Here is my story. I sent couple of dimes via bank wire from Bank of America to Matchbook on April 26th 2007. I printed out the wire information that matchbook has given me, so i doubt that i put in the wrong information. Besides this is not the first time i sent out international bank wire, so I know what i was doing. I waited couple of days, matchbook cs keep telling me that they have not recieved the bankwire. They request me to fax them the bankwire reciept, which i did, but they still claim that they have not recieved the bankwire. I then thought it was my bank's problem, but my bank claimed that they have sent out the bank wire to a bank in UK with beneficiary of ********(omited for obvious reasons...but all the sportsbook pretty much has the same benfeciary bank).

    I kept trying to figure out the status of my bankwire with my bank and mb. my bank keep telling me the wire has been successfully sent out and mb cs keep telling me that they have not recived the bankwire. Finally mid May, i request a wire trace from my bank, but the trace was pretty much useless because my bank sent a trace request to the UK intermediary bank, and the UK intermediary bank keep waiting for the benefiary bank to respond and they never respond. I then talked to MB cs about this. They said they couldn't do anything about it and still they have no trace of my bankwire. MB cs even sugest that request a bank wire recall...which i did back in late may.

    The problem didn't end there. The bankwire recall is pretty much useless because the UK intermediary bank need "credit confirmation" from the benefiary bank (ie they need matchbook's approval to refund my bank wire). the request was just sitting there for 3 months now, and the matchbook's benefiary bank never even bother to respond to their bank wire recall request. This is what bank of america foreign exchange/bank wire department wire investigation representative told me.

    So my money is pretty much gone at this point. I know for sure it is credited to the benfiary bank, but somehow MB lost it and never able to credit it to my account. right now my only option is keep waiting, i don't know if there is anything else that i can do.

    This is the reason that I am not using MB right now. I know they have way better lines than rest of the sportsbooks, but once you lose couple of dimes on inital deposit, that just kills all your interest in that sportsbook.

    I think my case is pretty unique. Hope some of you that having problems with MB bankwire will get it resolved soon.
  • bigloser
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 07-19-06
    • 787

    #2
    My bankwire has not been missing for anywhere near as long. My concern is more with the Matchbook staffs attitude.
    I sent wires to both WSEX and Matchbook at the same time. The WSEX wire didnt appear on my account either, however as soon as I queried it on live chat the problem was resolved, it was done during the live chat, that was the speed of the service.
    Matchbooks attitude is basically tough luck, you will just have to wait.
    The banking info for WSEX and Matchbook is virtually identical only the account number is different. I dont doubt for one minute that my wire is with them just waiting for someone to be bothered to look for it.
    Dont use Bank Wires at Matchbook
    Comment
    • BuddyBear
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 08-10-05
      • 7233

      #3
      sorry to hear about this....i did a bankwire this past Tuesday and it's in my account in 4 business days. Very satisfied with the process.
      Comment
      • vanzack
        SBR Sharp
        • 12-16-06
        • 478

        #4
        The bank wire system is archaic. It is prone to these types of problems. Its hard to believe that sending a fedex or ** is far simpler than the banking system, but it is what it is.

        A couple of suggestions for you:

        I would be willing to bet that the beneficiary (the bank in the caribbean) did get the money but does not know who at their bank to credit it to. The strange part of the wire process is that the routing ends with the beneficiary bank, and not the end account. The only thing that specifies for the money to be credited to MB account at the beneficiary bank is the "special instructions" field on the bankwire - and it has to include BOTH the name (matchbook) and the account number 122XXXXX. If you dont have both, the beneficiary bank does not know what to do with the funds.

        That being said, I would go to google and look up the website of that beneficiary bank. I will give you a hint, it has a ".ag" instead of ".com". They list a phone number. Call them and tell them exactly what happened.

        Then call Judy at WSEX / MB cust svc. She is a manager in accounting and will walk it through. Or call and ask for Hayden, he is the grand poohbah there and will talk to you on the phone, but I suggest you start with Judy.

        Between Judy and the beneficiary bank, they should be able to steer the wire funds in to the MB account.

        You are barking up the wrong tree until you know exactly where the transfer ended and went off course, and you should know that with the phone call to the beneficiary bank.

        The banks that it went through to get to the beneficiary bank are not going to know anything because they are just a pass through, and the chances are VERY goood that the bank in England did their job passing it off to the beneficiary bank.

        Something to consider is that I highly doubt MB has anything to do with this problem, other than not offering enough assistance in tracking it down. I doubt they ever got the funds. This problem is a direct result of a complicated system and most of all - the people at most banks have absolutely no idea how to send an international wire and they leave things off - like the special instructions - or just dont include all information - like the IBAN number or they leave fields incomplete.

        But your money is not gone. That is almost impossible, and the only way it is gone is if MB actually received the money and has decided to steal it - which is close to impossible. If it is sitting at the beneficiary bank, and you get their assistance, they will either get it routed back on a recall or routed to MB.

        GL
        Comment
        • vanzack
          SBR Sharp
          • 12-16-06
          • 478

          #5
          Originally posted by bigloser
          My bankwire has not been missing for anywhere near as long. My concern is more with the Matchbook staffs attitude.
          I sent wires to both WSEX and Matchbook at the same time. The WSEX wire didnt appear on my account either, however as soon as I queried it on live chat the problem was resolved, it was done during the live chat, that was the speed of the service.
          Matchbooks attitude is basically tough luck, you will just have to wait.
          The banking info for WSEX and Matchbook is virtually identical only the account number is different. I dont doubt for one minute that my wire is with them just waiting for someone to be bothered to look for it.
          Dont use Bank Wires at Matchbook
          Dude - you just talked to 2 different people at the same office who gave you a different CS experience. The next day you call, it could be reversed and you would say you had a wonderful experience with MB and a bad one with WSEX.

          Such is the issues of caribbean CS.
          Comment
          • bigloser
            SBR Wise Guy
            • 07-19-06
            • 787

            #6
            They insist they are not at the same office. I thought they were and made this point. They say no.
            It would be useful if you could confirm that they are in the same place, for sure.

            Thanks
            Comment
            • curious
              Restricted User
              • 07-20-07
              • 9093

              #7
              I sent a bankwire to American Express once. My AmEx card was $4,000 past due and I needed my relationship with AmEx. So, I wired them $4,000.

              They applied $400 to my account.

              I called the wire transfer department at my bank and got their info, they had some kind of confirmation number from AmEx's bank. Then I called AmEx's bank and explained the problem. Several phone calls and a couple of conference calls with AmEx, AmEx's bank and my bank later the mistake was corrected. Yes, it was a nightmare. But everyone involved really wanted to help clear up the problem.
              Comment
              • vanzack
                SBR Sharp
                • 12-16-06
                • 478

                #8
                Originally posted by bigloser
                They insist they are not at the same office. I thought they were and made this point. They say no.
                It would be useful if you could confirm that they are in the same place, for sure.

                Thanks
                I cant comfirm "for sure" at this very moment, but as of a month ago the same people who handle MB were handling WSEX.
                Comment
                • vanzack
                  SBR Sharp
                  • 12-16-06
                  • 478

                  #9
                  Originally posted by curious
                  I sent a bankwire to American Express once. My AmEx card was $4,000 past due and I needed my relationship with AmEx. So, I wired them $4,000.

                  They applied $400 to my account.

                  I called the wire transfer department at my bank and got their info, they had some kind of confirmation number from AmEx's bank. Then I called AmEx's bank and explained the problem. Several phone calls and a couple of conference calls with AmEx, AmEx's bank and my bank later the mistake was corrected. Yes, it was a nightmare. But everyone involved really wanted to help clear up the problem.
                  Yes and this is a domestic wire transfer - infinitely easier than an international wire transfer.

                  A domestic wire transfer involves a US routing number and a US account number. An international wire transfer is like doing a soduku puzzle.
                  Comment
                  • pico
                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                    • 04-05-07
                    • 27321

                    #10
                    this is a lot of hassle. well, i'll try to call tomorrow.
                    Comment
                    • SBR Lou
                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                      • 08-02-07
                      • 37863

                      #11
                      They so need to just allow cashier's checks.
                      Comment
                      • vanzack
                        SBR Sharp
                        • 12-16-06
                        • 478

                        #12
                        Originally posted by crazyl
                        They so need to just allow cashier's checks.
                        Heres the deal on this one.

                        Some of the banks in the caribbean will not process a cashiers check from the US that has a known recipient of a sportsbook because of the UIGEA. MB / WSEX bank is one of those banks. They just wont do it.

                        So the books are faced with finding processors to do it, and even they dont want to do it or have exorbitant fees because of the risk.

                        The bankwires routing makes them cool with doing the bankwire. A direct cashiers check puts the bank and its employees in direct conflict with the UIGEA and they just choose not to do it because of the risk involved.
                        Comment
                        • Scorpion
                          SBR Hall of Famer
                          • 09-04-05
                          • 7797

                          #13
                          Originally posted by vanzack

                          Something to consider is that I highly doubt MB has anything to do with this problem, other than not offering enough assistance in tracking it down. I doubt they ever got the funds. This problem is a direct result of a complicated system and most of all - the people at most banks have absolutely no idea how to send an international wire and they leave things off - like the special instructions - or just dont include all information - like the IBAN number or they leave fields incomplete.

                          But your money is not gone. That is almost impossible, and the only way it is gone is if MB actually received the money and has decided to steal it - which is close to impossible. If it is sitting at the beneficiary bank, and you get their assistance, they will either get it routed back on a recall or routed to MB.

                          GL
                          Some bank clerks dont even know what IBAN is!
                          Comment
                          • vanzack
                            SBR Sharp
                            • 12-16-06
                            • 478

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Scorpion
                            Some bank clerks dont even know what IBAN is!
                            Make that MOST dont know.

                            Comment
                            • pico
                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                              • 04-05-07
                              • 27321

                              #15
                              SWIFT
                              BIC
                              IBAN
                              Sort Code

                              it gets confusing even for us who frequently send bankwires...not to mention workers from developing countires. i wonder what the orientiation day at the sportsbook entails.
                              Comment
                              • vanzack
                                SBR Sharp
                                • 12-16-06
                                • 478

                                #16
                                This is a cut and paste of this same topic that I posted at another forum, but relevant here, especially the explanation of what an IBAN is and how it has all of the other info imbedded in it:

                                I think it would be helpful in light of this thread to explain how a bankwire actually works - something most dont know but should.

                                The bankwire system is archaic. Every country does its own thing, and only in the last 20 years have there been efforts to unify the procedures, but there still are many unique flaws. The first one is that there are no tracking numbers, so you kind of send it and hope.

                                The IBAN number is the key to the routing of the funds. The IBAN number contains all of the pertinent information on an international wire, and the numbers imbedded in it are often duplicated elsewhere on the wire. Here is a key to the IBAN number:

                                If you look at the IBAN number, it contains a lot of information:

                                AABB CCCC DDDD DDEE EEEE EE
                                A = Country Code
                                B = Mathematically generated check digit (not intelligent info)
                                C = Bank Alpha Code
                                D = Sort Code
                                E = Account Number

                                If you go back and look at any wire instructions, they give you the IBAN number and also give you the bank, sort code, and account numbers even though they are already imbedded in the IBAN.

                                If you have the IBAN, the money gets routed to the account number that is the last 8 digits. The key to this whole thing, and the reason banks fought this bill so hard, is that the account number listed is the account number of the BANK.

                                To explain that - the money goes through one of a handfull of huge clearing house banks - and then goes in to an account number of the beneficiary bank. So in other words, the bank in the caribbean that you are sending the money to is an account holder at the big clearing house bank. The bankwire instructions end when the beneficiary bank has your money.

                                How does the beneficiary bank know who's funds and what account at their bank to credit? By the "special instructions" field.

                                So when you think about this it is incredibly archaic, and not so different from a ** transfer. The name you put on a ** transfer is not critical to the transfer or the routing of the funds, it is the "special instructions" on your bank wire.

                                So now to your solution of maintaining a list of banned gambling accounts. How would they do this>? The second one got banned, all the sportsbook would do is change the "special instructions" to say anything they wanted, and something their bank knew was them, and you have essentially changed the name from "tom jones" to "bill harris".

                                This is why the banks fought the bill so hard. The bill imposes criminal liability on employees who have absolutely no way to enforce this under the current bankwire system. And this is why it is my opinion that there is no time in the near future that the whole world will change the worldwide bankwire system to accommodate online gambling legislation in the US.

                                It is very hard (impossible) to suggest a system that could work using the current bankwire model.
                                Comment
                                • pags11
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 08-18-05
                                  • 12264

                                  #17
                                  thanks vanzack...the only reason mine ended up taking so long was no IBAN number was included...that and the deposit was originally in pounds in my account but was later switched...
                                  Comment
                                  • pico
                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                    • 04-05-07
                                    • 27321

                                    #18
                                    i think mb screwed up my bankwire because my bankwire was sent in pounds as well
                                    Comment
                                    • pico
                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                      • 04-05-07
                                      • 27321

                                      #19
                                      here is the latest update from MB. they actually put me through to the supervisor rather than giving me the run around. i am waiting for their email tongiht.

                                      xxxx: bankwire** You are now speaking with Sheldon, Accounting. **
                                      Sheldon : Welcome to Matchbook.com, how may I assist you today?
                                      xxxx: can you give me the contact number for ********** bank
                                      xxxx: i sent you a bankwire on april 26th 2007, and you still claim that you have not recoeived it
                                      Sheldon : One moment please
                                      Sheldon : Can you verify your full name please?
                                      xxxx: xxxxxxxxxxxx
                                      Sheldon : One moment please
                                      Sheldon : i'm gonna transfer you to my supervisor
                                      xxxx: ok
                                      ** Please hold while being transferred to Elsa, Accounting. **
                                      ** You are now speaking with Elsa, Accounting. **
                                      Elsa : Hi there xxxx,
                                      Elsa : My name is Elsa and I'm in the accounts department.
                                      xxxx: hi
                                      xxxx: i sent you a fax of my bankwire recipt back in may
                                      xxxx: do you still have it?
                                      Elsa : Yes, thats right. I have been looking over our bank wire deposits for the past few months and came across your situation.
                                      Elsa : I was going to contact you this evening.
                                      xxxx: did you locate the money?
                                      Elsa : No, I'm afraid not. I will be in contact with the bank again in a little bit and I will find out more information on why this is so.
                                      Elsa : Were the funds returned to your bank account?
                                      xxxx: no, bank of america wire department is doing a bankwire recall for over 2 months now, they contacted xxxxxxx in london, but the xxxxx bank is waiting for benefiary bank to issue a credit authorization
                                      xxxx: so i am just waiting for the money at this point...for over 4 months
                                      Elsa : And it still hasn't been returned? Thats not good enough.
                                      Elsa : I will speak to the bank about this today.
                                      Elsa : And get this sorted out.
                                      xxxx: thanks. will you be contacting me by email?
                                      Elsa : You shouldn't have to wait for 4 months for a recall.
                                      Elsa : I can contact you by telephone or email, which ever is easiest for you.
                                      xxxx: email is easier
                                      xxxx: you can use the one onfile
                                      Elsa : Certainly, I will be in touch this evening once I get some information from our bank.
                                      xxxx: thanks
                                      Elsa : My apologies for letting this situation go on for so long.
                                      Elsa : We will sort this out very soon.
                                      xxxx: i think i'll use book to book transfer next time...this is a lot of trouble
                                      Comment
                                      • bigloser
                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                        • 07-19-06
                                        • 787

                                        #20
                                        I know its 4 months but I guess at least this reponse is reasonably helpful. It looks as if they may be reviewing recent bankwire issues.
                                        Hopefully this will be resolved shortly
                                        Comment
                                        • vanzack
                                          SBR Sharp
                                          • 12-16-06
                                          • 478

                                          #21
                                          Picoman - why wouldnt you pick up the phone and call them?

                                          I must say I am surprised at your lack of determination in demanding to speak to the right person this very moment....instead of some online chat thing.....

                                          but maybe that is just me.
                                          Comment
                                          • pico
                                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                            • 04-05-07
                                            • 27321

                                            #22
                                            problem solved.

                                            well, now i have couple of dimes in matchbook...plus free commission til end of sept.

                                            i am so glad all this mess finally got sorted out.


                                            Dear xxxx,

                                            We have just spoken to our bank about your wire, and they are now saying that they received your wire but failed to notify us of it. Because we never received this essential notification, we advised you to cancel the wire back in May. Since we did not hear anything further from you, we assumed you were successful in recalling your wire. (Typically a recalled wire takes just a few days to be returned to a customer's account.)

                                            I cannot tell you how sorry we are that your funds have been in limbo all this time. If we had known that your recall had not been successful, we could have pursued the matter further with our bank, as we have just done. The funds have now been credited to your account.

                                            By way of apology, I have set your account to commission free until the end of September. Also, please let me know if you incurred any costs in sending your wire or requesting a recall, as we would like to reimburse you for any and all expenses associated with this wire.

                                            For future reference, the vast majority of wires have been arriving here within 5 to 10 working days. Also, please be assured that in rare cases where this a problem, the customer's funds are never at risk and can never disappear -- it is simply a question of tracking the funds.

                                            Thank you once again for all your patience in resolving this matter.

                                            Kind Regards,

                                            Tim McCarthy

                                            Matchbook Accounts
                                            Comment
                                            • SBR Lou
                                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                              • 08-02-07
                                              • 37863

                                              #23
                                              Awesome Picoman, I had a feeling after reading the chat log it'd be resolved soon.
                                              Comment
                                              • pico
                                                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                • 04-05-07
                                                • 27321

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by crazyl
                                                Awesome Picoman, I had a feeling after reading the chat log it'd be resolved soon.
                                                thanks.

                                                i waited 4 months...and as soon as i started a thread, this thing got resolved...maybe the poeple from matchbook are reading this forum?

                                                btw, i take back my racist remarks towards bank of america employees. it is not their fault...the bankwire did get there.
                                                Comment
                                                • vanzack
                                                  SBR Sharp
                                                  • 12-16-06
                                                  • 478

                                                  #25
                                                  Picoman - it says "we didnt hear anything from you since may"....

                                                  Once again, im just shocked that you let this sit so long. It probably could have been resolved a long time ago.

                                                  Anyway, Im glad to hear it worked out. MB really is one of the best out there in every way.

                                                  GL
                                                  Comment
                                                  • pico
                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                    • 04-05-07
                                                    • 27321

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by vanzack
                                                    Picoman - it says "we didnt hear anything from you since may"....

                                                    Once again, im just shocked that you let this sit so long. It probably could have been resolved a long time ago.

                                                    Anyway, Im glad to hear it worked out. MB really is one of the best out there in every way.

                                                    GL
                                                    the money i wired to matchbook is not that much compared to how much i have at other sportsbooks. i just got fed up back in may and focus on winning at other sportsbooks. the only reason i contact them now is that i saw some other posters is having problems with bank wire at MB, so i thought class action complaining usually works better.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • pico
                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                      • 04-05-07
                                                      • 27321

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by vanzack
                                                      Picoman - it says "we didnt hear anything from you since may"....

                                                      Once again, im just shocked that you let this sit so long. It probably could have been resolved a long time ago.

                                                      Anyway, Im glad to hear it worked out. MB really is one of the best out there in every way.

                                                      GL
                                                      the thing is that the CS at MB was pretty unhelpful back in may. they were pretty adoment that it is my bank's fault. i didn't contact them since may because i was dealing with bank of america wire department.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • imgv94
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 11-16-05
                                                        • 17192

                                                        #28
                                                        My deposit took 30 seconds. It wasn't no punk ass bank wire thats for sure.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • pico
                                                          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                          • 04-05-07
                                                          • 27321

                                                          #29
                                                          no more bank wire to matchbook for me. it is interbook transfer for matchbook from now on.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • pags11
                                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                                            • 08-18-05
                                                            • 12264

                                                            #30
                                                            bank wires definitely do suck...
                                                            Comment
                                                            • pico
                                                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                              • 04-05-07
                                                              • 27321

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by pags11
                                                              bank wires definitely do such...
                                                              other than interbook transfer, if you want to move over 10k to and from a sportsbook, bankwire is probably the best way to go. with **, it'll take you weeks to move that much cash.
                                                              Comment
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