Winners and Losers for gaming sites this year?

jjgold · 08-06-07, 03:06 PM

winners

carib
wsex
matchbook
wagerstreet
greek
bet jamaica

winners

majorwager
sbr

winners

sbrlines
linetracker

losers

g-j update
don best
eog
rx

SBR_John · 08-06-07, 08:42 PM

I should have certainly put DonBest in the losers category. Wow, they are certainly having a very tough year.

The Rx? No, they continue to do well. What makes it painful for them is their cost base is higher than an EOG or MW. Their traffic is good but their revenue is down.

GnJ? You have to love their spunk. I like them short and mid term. They are flexible with a low cost base.

wagerstreet? might be a good call.

bigboydan · 08-06-07, 08:45 PM

The one thing you gotta like about Covers in regards to the winners category John. Is the fact that they went outside the box and accepted other types of advertisement ads.

SBR Lou · 08-06-07, 08:59 PM

Also, add 5dimes to winners.

jjgold · 08-06-07, 09:00 PM

RX line service could be a big winner if priced right, the software is sharp and clean and the have the experience over G-J and better contacts with books.

Over Priced line services are going to be losers no matter who they are, no one is paying over $100 a month for real time info anymore, the free ones are just as good.

Zeroed · 08-06-07, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by crazyl

Also, add 5dimes to winners.

5Dimes is for small players, i dont see how they could benefit from this. Only Matchbook does imo..everyone else is losing.

SBR Lou · 08-06-07, 09:18 PM

Yeah that's true. I am just partial to 5 Dimes because it's where I first started playing online, and they've always been straight with me, unlike some other bigger operations which haven't stood the test of time.

vanzack · 08-06-07, 11:08 PM

Not sure if it fits exactly, but the two biggest losers this year have to be pinnacle and neteller.

SBR_John · 08-06-07, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by vanzack

Not sure if it fits exactly, but the two biggest losers this year have to be pinnacle and neteller.

Very sharp. I can't believe I over looked Neteller. Good one.

spliff · 08-06-07, 11:28 PM

I have been impressed with BetJamaica's dedication to ease funding problems. Maybe I'm just not close enough to the situation or don't bet enough $$. I don't see other books doing it.

Big time winner.

When Pinnacle closed to the US, it was the best thing Matchbook could've asked for.

Huge winner.

The sad part about the last year in this business is too many forums continue to accept ad revenue from and endorse books that are absolute crap. That hurts everyone.

SBR_John · 08-06-07, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by spliff

The sad part about the last year in this business is too many forums continue to accept ad revenue from and endorse books that are absolute crap. That hurts everyone.

Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better I'm afraid. You won't have to look far either to see what I mean. We will never have an SBG or BetUS but we will be selling space to handicappers this year. The gaming forum industry is in some serious trouble. In the past it was greed, I'm afraid now it has shifted to survival.

bigboydan · 08-06-07, 11:52 PM

Well I can't dispute that at all John. Not many books want to promote themselves in this type of light, and I really can't say I blame them either. Thats basically said what I said about covers was smart taking other types of ad revenue. I'm really surprised that Fez's place didn't go that route instead of trying to make it a private type site in the first place.

SBR Lou · 08-07-07, 12:20 AM

I'm not sure the cost to maintain this place, but it may not be a bad idea to set up a premium membership here, atleast to provide more financial cushion. It doesn't need to be private, all forum content would be public, however those who did not subscribe could be capped at X posts a month. Maybe throw in a special feature for premium members as well. The valuable information on this website would pay the cost of a subscription by itself. This may offset some of the required costs, and allow SBR more leeway in terms of cutting a sponsor if need be without feeling much of a loss.

vanzack · 08-07-07, 12:25 AM

SBR John - is it possible to have a forum business model that gets its only revenue from some kind of membership fees?

Would the breakeven be so high that posters would have to pay an unreasonable fee?

Ive always wondered....

bigboydan · 08-07-07, 12:30 AM

Yes it can be done if you get enough members to support that type of forum type platform. Not to mention it would have to be a quarterly type billing in order to keep it profitable to the site owner. I don't feel we are at that stage yet though in regards to the state of the industry though.

jjgold · 08-07-07, 06:20 AM

Pinnacle also a huge loser this year

RX line service as far as software platform goes is already better than Don Best

Wow

Pressure on SBR to deliver soon

SBR_John · 08-07-07, 08:21 AM

SBRLines will deliver JJ. Bank it.

Yes Dan has mentioned that idea before

.

SBR will never be a pay service. At last check there were over 110,000 pages under sportsbookreview.com. Its a resource and needs to remain free so that the first time player does not get scammed.

Down the road we could look at different models for the other SBR sites.

jjgold · 08-07-07, 11:30 AM

I am still skeptical with SBR Odds, way too many techs drinking too much. If it is good it should knowck out G-J and Don Best Sports .

Sportstracker has the best books now and RX line service is very impressive so both not going anywhere.

Zeroed · 08-07-07, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

RX line service as far as software platform goes is already better than Don Best

Wow

Pressure on SBR to deliver soon

I don´t think there is any pressure..how much does RX lines cost?
They have some very bad sponsors, and i doubt the big books like them. SBR should be much more respected, and SBR Odds are for free and look pretty good to me..

jjgold · 08-07-07, 11:41 AM

RX will cost but they do have a gorgeous set up, is it worth it??

Not really

Omnivorous Frog · 08-07-07, 12:37 PM

Winners?

None.

All losers just to a different degree.

Biggest losers:

BOS
BetMill
WWTS
Hollywood
Pinnacle
Grande
Canbet
All British books.

Losers

Bodog
Vip/MVP
sportsbook
BetUS
Heritage

Lost the least:

CRIS and affil
OLY, bet jam
Wsex, Match
5 dimes
Carib
Sky

Can't see how any book won this year as far as customers and revenue.

Best Wishes...OF

Santo · 08-07-07, 12:45 PM

"All British books"? A lot of them banned Americans even before this legislation came in, and I doubt any significant part of their business was American to start with.

Most of them are probably net winners because of the European legislation moves etc..

durito · 08-07-07, 12:59 PM

Matchbook is definitely a winner, and I think you will see absolute proof of that the first weekend of football season, with much increased liquidity over last year.

Omnivorous Frog · 08-07-07, 01:04 PM

Most of the Brit books dropped out before Pinny and Grande. That is when I lost most of mine. No, all of mine. Tell me a British book who's bottom line was not affected negatively after they dumped the American market? Tell any book's stock that was not affected when BOS and then Neteller took a dive? Come on Santo, just because your an across the pond kind of guy don't think you were immune to the ramifications of our ruthless regime. Yes, the British books lost overall, I have no doubts.

Omnivorous Frog · 08-07-07, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by durito

Matchbook is definitely a winner, and I think you will see absolute proof of that the first weekend of football season, with much increased liquidity over last year.

I think I will see. Definintely, I think I will see. I think we will see absolute proof, I think. We will see I think.

Santo · 08-07-07, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Omnivorous Frog

Most of the Brit books dropped out before Pinny and Grande. That is when I lost most of mine. No, all of mine. Tell me a British book who's bottom line was not affected negatively after they dumped the American market? Tell any book's stock that was not affected when BOS and then Neteller took a dive? Come on Santo, just because your an across the pond kind of guy don't think you were immune to the ramifications of our ruthless regime. Yes, the British books lost overall, I have no doubts.

Not to any noticeable effect.. William Hil's stock rose 25% from Dec - Jan when the NT/Pinny stuff happened. Ladbrokes is part of Hilton so you can't tell.

I think you may overestimate the amount of Americans who played at the British books. I suspect that those who did play were the, shall we say, sharper end of the market, and were probably not missed much on bottom line, maybe on volume.

Either way I don't think it was a big hit, most of their volume is from the horse markets.

GJMike · 08-07-07, 02:22 PM

I wont speculate on other sites, but I would have to say that G&J are winners. But we are agile and keep our overhead low. We are an efficient team. Our sales have been record setting every month, and keep getting better. We have taken out more advertising than ever before: You can see us in USA Today, Tico Times, Bluff Magazine, Fight Magazine, Daily Racing Form, local newspaper outlets nation-wide, websites, etc.

I love the position we are in. It may be a fight at times, but that just keeps us sharper.

I will tell you one thing (even though it would never happen). If I did have to get a 9-5er, because someone was able to steal all of my customers I would run the thing for free in my home office just to piss them all off.

Omnivorous Frog · 08-07-07, 02:25 PM

The bloodletting was way before that, it came in two stages, first the Carruthers arrest, BOS dragdown, then the gambling bill being slid through on port security, and GDub signing it into law. Many months before Neteller/Pinnacle. Give any Brit books stock, before the Carruthers arrest intil the end of 2006, or even until today right now.

Some estimates have the offshore betting industry at 6 billion, maybe low. A large part of that is American. When a book no longer accepts American action, it cuts out a large chunk of revenue. If those were sharps with volume, so much more to balance the pint punters. Up until last year British books advertised heavily in this market. They were not here for a few crumbs to go along with horse players.

Omnivorous Frog · 08-07-07, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by GJMike

I wont speculate on other sites, but I would have to say that G&J are winners. But we are agile and keep our overhead low. We are an efficient team. Our sales have been record setting every month, and keep getting better. We have taken out more advertising than ever before: You can see us in USA Today, Tico Times, Bluff Magazine, Fight Magazine, Daily Racing Form, local newspaper outlets nation-wide, websites, etc.

I love the position we are in. It may be a fight at times, but that just keeps us sharper.

I will tell you one thing (even though it would never happen). If I did have to get a 9-5er, because someone was able to steal all of my customers I would run the thing for free in my home office just to piss them all off.

Let me know when you switch from shilling to running it for free.

TheOffshoreGambler · 08-07-07, 05:59 PM

Right now I would say everyone is losers. Until someone steps up with payment solutions gonna be difficult for anyone to operate.