I've never gotten a decision like this before

**Bill Dozer** · 11-29-05, 10:59 PM

DG,

We received complaints from a few others who are understandably upset.

At what point in the game was your wager canceled? Did you receive a time-stamped email?

On the surface it looks like players have a case. Canceling a wager due to change of venue before the game goes off is acceptable. The bad-line rule can apply when the location is listed and the book can make a case if the words "at" are used. The clerk chatting with bettors suggests that the linesman simply wasn't on top of where the event was being held.

**darkghost** · 11-30-05, 03:19 AM

They tell me the wager was cancelled at 7:30pm EST. The game started at 6pm EST. And was this wager cancelled at every sportsbook like Nine.com claims? I don't see other posters mentioning about this game in particular.

**pags11** · 11-30-05, 04:39 AM

if they didn't cancel the bet before the game went off, then they should honor it...umm, let's see if the game goes the way we like and if not we'll cancel it...

**bigboydan** · 11-30-05, 05:05 AM

what did they have this line on this game at opposed to other books ? ... if it was a bad line, then wouldn't it be totaly obvious.

heres something bill mentioned:

he bad-line rule can apply when the location is listed and the book can make a case if the words "at" are used.

ok, i can see them trying to make a case from this standpoint. but, why should that be any type of case at all. if there line was no different than anywhere else.

i guess what it all boils down to was. what did they give you the line at ?

**darkghost** · 11-30-05, 06:26 AM

This whole thing surprised me b/c I know the line was not that off from other books and also I've been around to know not to play a bad line. I don't remember the side but I played the total at 128.5 which was pretty standard everywhere. Pinny had the total at u129 -120 at the time.

**marc** · 11-30-05, 12:05 PM

If nine.com were a book like Pinnacle or Cris where the line managers actually take the time to come up with their own line, and they screwed up thier handicapping becuase they didn't have the correct venue, I could understand their arguement. But all nine.com and family does is simply clone other people lines, and then fade some lines a little hear and there based on thier own clientelle. I have a very hard time that Rick or anyone else actually analyzed this game and came up with a total of 128.5 based off of the incorrect venue. Also suprised we don't hear more complaints from the players who ebt the pointspread or ml. Would love to knwo if anyone who had the losing side had theri wager cancelled.

**ihaiha** · 11-30-05, 02:16 PM

MYBOOKIE.com

I made a bet in excess of $500 on St. Joe's -1.5 at mybookie.com the night before the game, it was only after the game was over that i checked my balance and it said the game was "cancelled", when i called customer service to find out why i wasnt at least notified via email earlier in the day about the cacellation they said the decision to declare the game "no action" wasnt made until well into the first half! Also my records on the site of pending wagers and wagers made indicate the game was not "cancelled" until 7:20pm, the game started at 6:00pm. And the "bad line defense" doesnt fly here, their line was the prevailing line at most major books on the board(even a bit worse, it was mostly -2 at the time i bet it) I also had action at pinnacle on Drexel +3.5 trying to middle and there was no such chananagans over there as all action stood. I feel what they pulled to be very unethical and i hope SBR can do something about it. By the way NINE is the only other book to my knowledge i know of that did the same.

**bigboydan** · 11-30-05, 02:22 PM

first of all, let me welcome you to the SBRforum ihaiha

if you feel you are in need of assistance with your problem. please contact bill dozer at: Assistance@SportsbookReview.com

**Bill Dozer** · 11-30-05, 02:27 PM

DarkGhost,

If your play has not been regraded as a win, give Rick a call at 800-373-9713. He will be in for the next couple of hours.

Bets that weren't voided until after the game was well underway will get the W.

**LGBoots** · 11-30-05, 02:30 PM

Hate it when books pull these kind of stunts

Aren't 'Nine' backed by the VIP group now ?

**Bill Dozer** · 11-30-05, 02:37 PM

Hello Ihaihi,

You can either send your account ID to us or call Rick at the number above. A bet made the night before should not be canceled after the half. The bad line would only apply if the venue or home team was listed, and even then the player should expect the house to void the play before tipoff.

Nine realizes they need to address the issue and will be regrading wagers.

**pags11** · 11-30-05, 04:05 PM

that they are even trying to pull this off bothers me...

**ihaiha** · 11-30-05, 04:28 PM

thanks for the welcome and yes i have emailed twice about this issue but have recieved no response back as of yet, i'm not sure if they have gone through or not or if i'm having trouble with my email, hopefully we can get it resolved, thx for the help. I tried to call the number listed but i could not get through and i have just emailed you my account number

**Brick Tamland** · 11-30-05, 06:04 PM

cant cancel bets after games start....thats just horse shit

**ihaiha** · 11-30-05, 06:08 PM

I've tried to call the 800 number provided but it seems to be a fax number or something as everytime i try i just get a horrible feedback signal

**Bill Dozer** · 11-30-05, 11:00 PM

Hi Ihaihi,

I sent you some contact info and this page may help. http://nine.com/nine_contact.asp
Keep us posted.

**ihaiha** · 12-01-05, 01:57 PM

response from nine

MY EMAIL TO NINE: Hi Rick, my name is David and my account number at mybookie.com is "".
I made a bet Monday night of $544 on St. Joe's -1.5 pts versus Drexel. When i checked my account the next day after the game was over i saw that my balance remained the same with no change(after St joe's won by 10) When i called customer service they said the bet had been cancelled, when i asked why i had recieved no notification of this earlier in the day before the game, they said that it was not declared "no action" until well into the first half( i believe they said 7 minutes in) because it was on a nuetral court. I believe this is very unfair and not in "good faith" ,to put it mildly, to arbitrarily decide well into a game that all of a sudden it is "no action" and Bill Dozer at SBR agrees as well. The time stamp on my list of wagers on the website states that the bet was not cancelled until 7:20pm and the game started at 6pm. The line i bet it at the night before was in accordance with all other major sportsbooks at the time(all of them had -1.5 or -2) and i certainly was not betting a "mistake line" nor would i ever attempt to. I made a legitimate wager at the time i made it and it was still legit when the game went off, i believe it should be honored and paid as such in full and SBR agrees with this as ive stated the facts as i know them. I would appreciate a response from you and thank you for your help.

RESPONSE FROM NINE:
The position taken on this was as fair and honest as it could have been. We had the game listed as Drexel as the home team, once we discovered that the game was being played at a Nuetral site we had to cancel all wagers. We didnt cancel these wagers because we wanted to, not that it matters any but we would have won money to the game if we would have been able to grade the game as a loser or a winner. The reason we have these rules that cover these mistakes is to prevent us from always being put in a no win situation. You know its funny i havent heard from one person who played Drexel in that game, but if we would have graded the game a loser every Drexel player we had would have called and said wait a minute buddy you had Drexel listed as the home team and i played them because they were the home team and you have to refund my money, and they would have been correct because that is what is stated in our rules. We are not without fault here and i am the first one to admit this but we are also not required to pay all winners and let all the losers get their money back, thats why we have the rules up for human error. I have been offering all of our players a free play on any game of their choice for this unfortunate error. I have been a player for many years and a bookmaker for more and i know as a player we all just look at errors from one side, all players would like to be paid when they win and if they lose and dont have to pay then they are happy about that also. I will offer you the same as i have offered other players who played this game and that is a free play for the same amount of the play that you made on that game, but as i said before there is no way a book can pay all the winners and not collect from the losers and still remain in business. I respect everyones opinion and they are all entitled to their opinion but regardless who agrees with you it would be an entirely different story if they were laying their own money out to pay all the winners and giving all the losers a pass on the game. I hope this is an agreeable solution for you and i appreciate your email.
Thanks and good luck.
Rick
Nine.com
An EGaming Review "Power 50" company

MY THOUGHTS:
His response was clear, professional and with fair intentions as i see it, but the fact remains their sportsbook reserves the right to cancel wagers arbitrarily after games begin and that is unacceptable and there is not a thing a player like me can do about it. they clearly should not be rated as high as a "B" The bottom line is they declared "no action" well after a game had begun after people like me bet into a line that was the PREVAILING(not a mistake) line at every major online sportsbook and they gave themselves the power to do this because they happened to omit an "N" indicating neutral on their game listings

**Bill Dozer** · 12-01-05, 03:09 PM

Ihaiha,

I spoke to Rick a bit more today and he told me you had accepted the free-play for the amount of the wager. He will offer you a 2nd option which is to be credited for the win and agree to have your account closed.

The problem their error has created is that they stand to pay both sides of the bet. The books see a lot of players bet a line like this knowing it is on a neutral court but is not noted as such. The player will then ask for the bet to be canceled if it loses because it showed as being played as a home game for team #2. They may call and expect their loss to be washed out. For an angle shooter this is a win/win situation.

Of course, the house is not claiming that any specific player had this intention. Rick believes the wager did imply which court the game was to be played on and some onus can be placed on the player and has offered the free-play for the inconvenience.

This 2nd option means the book is taking full responsibility for the mistake but assures them that any players who bet the game specifically because it was listed as home game will not be back exploiting future errors.

**marc** · 12-01-05, 03:19 PM

In my opinion, the smart thing to have done would be to been to grade all th wagers either win or loss. And for the few drexel players who called claiming that drexel wans't the home team, he could have refunded thier money. I highly doubt that most of their players were aware of the mistake. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing they are getting far more complaints from the players who should have won, then they would have gotten from the players who should have lost.

I've never met Rick, but I fail to understand why he has such a great reputation. It just seems to me that where ever he goes there are problems. (not that mybookie didn't have problems before Rick got there)

**ihaiha** · 12-01-05, 03:41 PM

I've not yet recieved that offer from him, but i'd much rather take being paid along with the account closure and simply part ways with this book.

**Bill Dozer** · 12-01-05, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by marc

In my opinion, the smart thing to have done would be to been to grade all th wagers either win or loss. And for the few drexel players who called claiming that drexel wans't the home team, he could have refunded thier money. I highly doubt that most of their players were aware of the mistake. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing they are getting far more complaints from the players who should have won, then they would have gotten from the players who should have lost.

I've never met Rick, but I fail to understand why he has such a great reputation. It just seems to me that where ever he goes there are problems. (not that mybookie didn't have problems before Rick got there)

The goal wasn't to slip one by the players and hope for the least amount of shit to hit the fan. They did what they thought was right because the home team was not at home. Rick says they would have won money if they scored the game which I believe is true.

What wasn't acceptable was to use a bad-line type of ruling to cancel bets that were on game where the outcomes was at least partially known. Because the game had started I think the two options listed above are very fair.

**ihaiha** · 12-01-05, 04:09 PM

i agree with Bill and will gladly accept the second option of being paid in full and account closure and regard it as a fair outcome. I'm still waiting to hear back from them about being paid in full

**marc** · 12-01-05, 08:33 PM

I would imagine that someone who was looking to take a shot, wouldn't be wagering on the game hours before game time. Most likely anyone who wnated the free shot would wait as close to gametime as possible to see if they would catch the error.

I would aslo imagine that many recreational players would not notice a note missing indciating that the game was being held ina neutral field.

But I do imagine that rectreational player who bet the game, and expected to win, only to discover that the game was voided, would be extremely upset. I knwo if it was me, and the choice was a free play, or take cash and close my aco****, my response would be, "give me the cash, and I'll just stick to a book lie pinnacle. WHat does mybookie have to really offer me, that I should give up my win, to stay.""

I just don't get the logic here. It's one thing when a player bets a bad line, and you really don't wnat the player, that I understand saying look, we'll pay you, but we don't want your business anymore. In this case, these players weren't neccesarily looking to take a shot, so why is Riick chasing them out.

**Bill Dozer** · 12-01-05, 09:11 PM

I would imagine that someone who was looking to take a shot, wouldn't be wagering on the game hours before game time. Most likely anyone who wnated the free shot would wait as close to gametime as possible to see if they would catch the error.

You wouldn't think so but you would be surprised at the amount of players who wager only to make these kinds of bets. The worst that can happen is the bet gets canceled and if they lose they have a chance at getting a rebate.

I just don't get the logic here. It's one thing when a player bets a bad line, and you really don't wnat the player, that I understand saying look, we'll pay you, but we don't want your business anymore. In this case, these players weren't neccesarily looking to take a shot, so why is Rick chasing them out.

Its not a case of "them". This is how this specific case was handled. The part I was concerned with was that ihaiha did not lose a bet he could have placed elsewhere and did not incur a monetary loss. If this is the worst case scenario then there shouldn't be a lingering issue. As for who Nine chooses to book to, that's a separate matter. They have always been mysteriously conservative.

**bigboydan** · 12-01-05, 09:16 PM

i wonder if "everyone" got this correction. or, just the ones that bitch about it.

**CrazyHorse** · 12-01-05, 10:25 PM

In my mind, the course they're taking does not resolve the issue you raised of people that might place the bet hoping to take advantage of a book mistake. After all, it's still win/win for those players. They can't lose, but they can get a freeplay, which is almost as good as winning your bet, depending on how you use it. Now if they just made a rule that they'd grade all action, and players were responsible for errors in court location, the problem would be solved.

**Brick Tamland** · 12-01-05, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by CrazyHorse

In my mind, the course they're taking does not resolve the issue you raised of people that might place the bet hoping to take advantage of a book mistake. After all, it's still win/win for those players. They can't lose, but they can get a freeplay, which is almost as good as winning your bet, depending on how you use it. Now if they just made a rule that they'd grade all action, and players were responsible for errors in court location, the problem would be solved.

I agree with crazyass. If the game starts... its action!! If no one knows about the change then it wont effect the lines across the casinos but if everyone knows and you are sleeping at the wheel then you just gotta go into the game with what you took for action and next time pop some facking nodoze.....but the sportsbook should cancel it before the game starts anyway.

Like marc said...a book like this isnt going to do anyhting but copy lines anyways. cancel the bet if you think its fair but when the game goes off dont facken touch it. How about Darkman??

**ihaiha** · 12-01-05, 10:53 PM

I'm not complaining in the least about getting paid in full with the stipiulation that my account be closed(I'm still waiting for a response from NINE and this to actually happen as of right now), but the thing about it that bugs me is that it somehow implies that I have done something wrong or illigitimate. That being the case, getting paid in full on my legitimate wager and having my account terminated is a far superior option than a free play in my opinion. The funny thing is this was the first and only wager i have ever made at this sportsbook and the only reason i signed up was because SBR had them rated a "B" and i was looking for another valuable out for the thin overnight college basketball market. This whole fiasco was not exactly what i was looking for to say the least lol

**timdawg6** · 12-02-05, 12:45 AM

Hey man I understand your pain, but You were playing the middle, which is technically not ethical, Im guessing the other site didnt cancel your bet, and you lost that and pushed the other, thats the risk you take when playing the middle

**Senator7** · 12-02-05, 02:02 AM

My wait to hear something positive about Nine.com continues...

**ihaiha** · 12-02-05, 02:08 AM

Can you please explain what exactly is "unethical" about attempting a middle after there is line movement on your origianl bet? And as far as "the risk you take when playing a middle", as far as i know there is no risk besides the vig, you either win both, win one and lose one, or win one and push the other, not lose one and push the other unless of course you take into the account the risk that the sportsbook you are playing at reserves the right to declare "no action" on a game well after it has already begun. Then and only then can you lose one and push the other. That was the only risk i took.

**pags11** · 12-02-05, 04:38 AM

glad you got this straightened out...

**InSpades** · 12-02-05, 10:36 AM

I wonder if anyone has had a LOSING wager cancelled because of a situation like this? NOT.

IS

**BuddyBear** · 12-02-05, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by ihaiha

Can you please explain what exactly is "unethical" about attempting a middle after there is line movement on your origianl bet? And as far as "the risk you take when playing a middle", as far as i know there is no risk besides the vig, you either win both, win one and lose one, or win one and push the other, not lose one and push the other unless of course you take into the account the risk that the sportsbook you are playing at reserves the right to declare "no action" on a game well after it has already begun. Then and only then can you lose one and push the other. That was the only risk i took.

good post...what's unethical is sportsbooks cancelling wagers after the game has started.