Debunking Canadian health care myths

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  • betplom
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 09-20-06
    • 13444

    #1
    Debunking Canadian health care myths



    As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.

    Often I'll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner's nationality. To choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion of each one's merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.

    Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.

    Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system. Opponents of such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of America's health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.

    As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.

    Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.
    In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

    Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.
    The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn't when everybody is covered.

    Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.Ten percent of Canada's GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have inadequate coverage. In essence, the U.S. system is considerably more expensive than Canada's. Part of the reason for this is uninsured and underinsured people in the U.S. still get sick and eventually seek care. People who cannot afford care wait until advanced stages of an illness to see a doctor and then do so through emergency rooms, which cost considerably more than primary care services.
    What the American taxpayer may not realize is that such care costs about $45 billion per year, and someone has to pay it. This is why insurance premiums increase every year for insured patients while co-pays and deductibles also rise rapidly.

    Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.
    There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don't get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost.

    Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists' care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs.

    Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

    Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt says single-payer systems are not "socialized medicine" but "social insurance" systems because doctors work in the private sector while their pay comes from a public source. Most physicians in Canada are self-employed. They are not employees of the government nor are they accountable to the government. Doctors are accountable to their patients only. More than 90 percent of physicians in Canada are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Claims are submitted to a single provincial health care plan for reimbursement, whereas in the U.S., claims are submitted to a multitude of insurance providers. Moreover, Canadian hospitals are controlled by private boards and/or regional health authorities rather than being part of or run by the government.

    Myth: There aren't enough doctors in Canada.
    From a purely statistical standpoint, there are enough physicians in Canada to meet the health care needs of its people. But most doctors practice in large urban areas, leaving rural areas with bona fide shortages. This situation is no different than that being experienced in the U.S. Simply training and employing more doctors is not likely to have any significant impact on this specific problem. Whatever issues there are with having an adequate number of doctors in any one geographical area, they have nothing to do with the single-payer system.
    And these are just some of the myths about the Canadian health care system. While emulating the Canadian system will likely not fix U.S. health care, it probably isn't the big bad "socialist" bogeyman it has been made out to be.
    It is not a perfect system, but it has its merits. For people like my 55-year-old Aunt Betty, who has been waiting for 14 months for knee-replacement surgery due to a long history of arthritis, it is the superior system. Her $35,000-plus surgery is finally scheduled for next month. She has been in pain, and her quality of life has been compromised. However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Aunt Betty — who lives on a fixed income and could never afford private health insurance, much less the cost of the surgery and requisite follow-up care — will soon sport a new, high-tech knee. Waiting 14 months for the procedure is easy when the alternative is living in pain for the rest of your life. Rhonda Hackett of Castle Rock is a clinical psychologist.


    Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci...#ixzz0aUEKg0Lq
  • betplom
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 09-20-06
    • 13444

    #2
    Originally posted by dogcity
    If the US emulates the Canadian health system, patients will be truly f***ed. Yes the 'rumors' of wait times are very true. How many Americans with health coverage would respectfully wait 3-12 months or more for an MRI or referral to a specialist? Here in Atlantic Canada the wait time for orthopedic surgery is 2-3 years, unless it is an emergency situation or you have 'connections'. If you plan on blowing your knee out on the ski hill or in your weekly pick-up game...you will be hobbled for a very, very, very long time.

    People are literally having their lives ruined by the pathetic state of affairs in Canada. Check out the huge number of American facilities that are now tapping this market. The catch 22 is that Canadians don't have private plans-so they may be forced go to the States-pay out of pocket-then return to subsidize the 'vapor-world' Canadian system through huge taxes.

    You should read the article.
    Comment
    • betplom
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 09-20-06
      • 13444

      #3
      Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.

      Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments.

      If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care.

      Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.
      Comment
      • Brock Landers
        SBR Aristocracy
        • 06-30-08
        • 45359

        #4
        When i went to Canada in Late september/early October i was SHOCKED by how expensive everything was, the prices on EVERYTHING are higher, just plain higher than the equivalent in the US.

        For example, go to Wendy's, get a value meal, the meal is just more expensive, flat out higher all around, and i know canadians don't make that much more cash per hour, or in equivalent jobs to make up for that difference.

        Its always been an oddity, a magazine for example is 8 bux in the US, but the same thing is 10 bux in Canada. And the exchange rate is almost even, about 94/95 cents to the dollar, so we barely saved anything by using our US bank card there.
        Comment
        • betplom
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 09-20-06
          • 13444

          #5
          Originally posted by Brock Landers
          When i went to Canada in Late september/early October i was SHOCKED by how expensive everything was, the prices on EVERYTHING are higher, just plain higher than the equivalent in the US.

          For example, go to Wendy's, get a value meal, the meal is just more expensive, flat out higher all around, and i know canadians don't make that much more cash per hour, or in equivalent jobs to make up for that difference.

          Its always been an oddity, a magazine for example is 8 bux in the US, but the same thing is 10 bux in Canada. And the exchange rate is almost even, about 94/95 cents to the dollar, so we barely saved anything by using our US bank card there.
          Canadians are well aware of this.

          For a long time the price differences were justified because one Canadian Dollar = $0.65 - $0.80 US Dollars, lately however the Canadian Dollar has gotten much closer to parity with the US greenback - I think it's about $0.94 right now.

          Alot of items are higher priced here in Canada, that is a fact, the most noticeable difference is on products that are heavily taxed, ie tobacco, alcohol and fuel.

          The US dwarfs Canada population wise, this country is sparsely populated compared to the US, prices are also higher here because of the extra cost associated with the geography of Canada.

          As far as I'm aware wages here are very good compared to similar jobs in the USA.

          For example, transit bus drivers here make $27 hourly, construction workers make $30 and more per hour.
          Unionized trades people - plumbers electricians etc make $70K -$100K per year easily.

          Doctors in the US can make far more than a doctor in Canada - I think the average wage of a Canadian doctor is in the $250K range -depending on type of practise. I've heard American doctors that make triple this.
          Comment
          • Brock Landers
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 06-30-08
            • 45359

            #6
            Originally posted by betplom
            Canadians are well aware of this. For a long time the price differences were justified because one Canadian Dollar = $0.65 - $0.80 US Dollars, lately however the Canadian Dollar has gotten much closer to parity with the US greenback - I think it's about $0.94 right now. Alot of items are higher priced here in Canada, that is a fact, the most noticeable difference is on products that are heavily taxed, ie tobacco, alcohol and fuel. The US dwarfs Canada population wise, this country is sparsely populated compared to the US, costs are also higher here because of the extra costs associated with getting items shipped etc.
            I had my brother in law and some friends down here a while back, they said beer was so cheap in the US it was like Coke or Pepsi prices compared, they get NAILED on Alcohol there.
            Comment
            • betplom
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 09-20-06
              • 13444

              #7
              Originally posted by Brock Landers
              I had my brother in law and some friends down here a while back, they said beer was so cheap in the US it was like Coke or Pepsi prices compared, they get NAILED on Alcohol there.
              Like I said, many items are cheaper in the US, no argument there, alot of items are similarly priced and some items are cheaper.

              Prescription drugs are much cheaper here. (The Pharmaceutical industry here is made up of the same companies you have in the USA - don't believe for a second that "Canadian" prescription drugs are inferior to ones produced in the USA this is pure fiction)
              Comment
              • dogcity
                SBR High Roller
                • 09-13-09
                • 181

                #8
                Originally posted by betplom
                You should read the article.
                Unfortunately the author's information is very out of date...things have changed a bit (ahem) in 17 years.

                The facts (as opposed to opinion) are indisputable. Even Workmans Comp has thrown in the towel. They are sending patients to the US for diagnostic tests when the wait times in Canada make the lost-work costs untenable. Strictly a dollars/cents proposition from their perspective.

                I have a bro-in-law who is a gastroenterologist in NY state. The number of Canadian patients he sees (mostly people waiting months on scopes to check for cancer) is up 500% or more in the last 3-4 years...his estimate not mine. He says Canadians are now a small but significant part of the client base at his clinic.

                The Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic now have Canadian offices established to expedite the cross border medical traffic. Every major city in Canada has private MRI/CT businesses for those that can afford to jump start the diagnostic process. People in Canada who are in dire medical circumstances are now spending life savings, remortgaging property, etc, to go elsewhere for medical treatment. This is becoming common.

                There is a famous surgeon in Ottawa who does the Arod type of hip scopes...this is still quite an unusual procedure for Canada. He's returned from the UCLA medical centre recently. He's presently scheduling his 2007 patients for surgery...and that's not counting referral and appointment/consult time.

                Don't take my word for it...phone the offices of a few local orthopods...tell them you're considering asking your GP for a referral (knee/shoulder/elbow/whatever)...inquire about the wait times for surgery. I'd guess the average would be at least 18 months.
                Comment
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