It's been a joy...Goodbye everyone.

[crackerjack]

Blaming a gambling addiction on genetics is a bunch of hogwash. Certain personality traits (which may be genetic) might lead one towards gambling...I'll concede that much. But there are no "extreme genetic codes" that exclude people from the ability to overcome a gambling addiction. It's hogwash.

[Starion]

This could not be more false. I assume you are too stupid to know anything about something called genetics. Can you change your eye color? Can you make yourself a different race? A lot of people have genetic codes that make it almost impossible for them to quit drinking, smoking, gambling, etc. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with mental toughness. Can a schizophrenic will their way to mental stability? No. Its the same thing for people who get the extreme genetic code to drink or gamble. Maybe your family members who could just up and quit had very mild forms of these genes. There are varying levels to the disease of addiction. Some of the most mentally tough people in the world have genetic codes for addiction that no amount of will power can make them stop. Its why a lot of people turn to suicide. You think the alcoholic who kills himself wouldn't have given anything to not be an alcoholic?

Do yourself a favor and read about genetics and things we can control vs. things we can't.

This is feel good shit, plain and simple. People may have a genetic predisposition to certain things but it is an active choice. Nobody exits the womb addicted to alcohol or with a gambling problem. (with the rare exception being a crack baby)

I can tell you first hand I gamble probably more than is healthy. I make a conscious decision to make a bet and I don't blame my damn genes for it. I could become a heroin addict pretty fast too if I wanted to.

People WANT it to be a genetic problem so that they feel better about themselves for not correcting the problem. Your genes may make you more susceptible, but you ultimately make the final decision.

[vanzack]

I always get a kick out of these threads.

People love to project their shortcomings on others, "if Im a loser than everyone else is too..." type of stuff.

The truth is gambling is not for everyone, just like anything else in life - some like chicken and some like steak.

But to assume that the laundry list of your misfortunes applies to everyone else is absurd. There are LOTS of gamblers who make money, there are LOTS of gamblers who have solid stable family lives, there are LOTS of gamblers who are not addicted, there are LOTS of gamblers who have been able to make a living not working for a douchebag corporation, there are LOTS of gamblers who are not sad and lonely, and there are LOTS of gamblers who love every minute of every day.

You are not one of them. Move on. But dont make the easy mistake of saying everyone is like you.

[BuddyBear]

I always get a kick out of these threads.

People love to project their shortcomings on others, "if Im a loser than everyone else is too..." type of stuff.

The truth is gambling is not for everyone, just like anything else in life - some like chicken and some like steak.

But to assume that the laundry list of your misfortunes applies to everyone else is absurd. There are LOTS of gamblers who make money, there are LOTS of gamblers who have solid stable family lives, there are LOTS of gamblers who are not addicted, there are LOTS of gamblers who have been able to make a living not working for a douchebag corporation, there are LOTS of gamblers who are not sad and lonely, and there are LOTS of gamblers who love every minute of every day.

You are not one of them. Move on. But dont make the easy mistake of saying everyone is like you.

Sure there are LOTS of gamblers who make money nobody disputes that that is indeed an accurate description of reality but you would be remiss to note that relatively speaking there are LOTS MORE who don't make money. It is well documented that the majority of people who bet on sports or go to a casino and gamble are long-term losers.

Put it this way....if I showed you a picture of a guy who bets on sports or gave you a name of someone and asked you to guess whether this guy was a winner or a loser betting sports and you knew nothing about this guy....you would guess every single time that he was a loser because that choice would give you the greatest probability of being right with your answer every single time. Why would you guess everytime that he was a loser...because the vast majority of people are long-term losers. Vanzack...you are way too sharp to think otherwise.

And as far as projection goes.....you are right, it's not that simple. Just b/c something happens to me does not mean it will happen to others. Or something happens to you it will happen to someone else. That's what known as a "projection effect" in the social sciences (i.e. people tend to project their values and characteristics onto others). There is a lot variance in this world. But if we look at the aggregate of gamblers (i.e. let's say our target population under investigation is people who bet on sports) we can discover certain patterns that appear in this specific population and we can say with some confidence certain features about our target population when describing them. Research shows that gamblers tend to be more isolated, spend less time with family, they tend to be more stressed out, they tend to experience higher rates of depression, they are more likely to experience volatile mood swings, more likely to consider suicide as an option to solving problems, they tend to experience more remorse with their decisions, they are not as likely to have the same sexual urges that others who don't gamble do, they tend to have greater problems sleeping, they tend to see themselves as overly generous and philanthropic with their money as soon as they get the big win, etc....

Again, all this is well-documented in the research literature on gaming. The more you gamble the more likely you are to experience certain negative symptoms. Are these symptoms going to effect everyone who gambles...NO....but if you have 2 people, one who gambles and one who does not you would be right more times than not to ascribe these symtoms onto the person who gambles as opposed to the person who does not. Again...nothing controversial about what I am saying.

One important thing to note is that the consequences of gambling are not always financial. In fact, it is perfectly reasonable that someone who is a long-term winner could experience certain unintended effects from gambling like time-displacement (i.e. the time to gamble prevents you from doing other things that you value in your life like spending time with family and friends), health side effects (i.e. weight gain, lack of exercise, increased stress and blood pressure level, etc...), loss of time from work (i.e. losing out on a promotion, etc...) and what not.

There are indeed those for whom gambling is nothing more than a recreational activity that is integrated into many parts of their life. There are those who do it for a living and it causes no serious ill effects. However, there are those individuals many of whom who frequent gaming forums, where gambling dominates their lives and thoughts. It is those people who are most at risk for suffering many of things I mentioned.

If you do gamble you have to assess your situation and evaluate it honestly. Lot of people love gambling and experience certain thrills that they can't get from anywhere else. For other people they use at as an escape from their real life. Gambling serves different functions for people. In the end, people have to be honest with themselves and recognize that there is a high probability that they are going to experience some sort of financial and/or social setback as a result of their gambling. The loss can be modest (i.e. recrational gambler; person who goes out to Vegas once a year, guy who bets on the Super Bowl; person who buys a few lottery tickets with a real big jackpot, goes on a weekend trip to the casino, etc...) or it can be very severe (i.e. major debt; divorce from a spouse, loss of time from work, etc...).

Good luck to everyone with whatever you choose....

[BigBollocks]

Vanzack I know you love to drill these guys on covers and such, but I'll politely beg to differ while I've got a few minutes this afternoon. There's no doubt that you and I often stand to benefit by brushing guys like this off and having their stories not reach our congressman's desk, but I guess the socialist side of me also empathizes to a certain degree (maybe I spent too much time in Europe years back).

The two things I tend to disagree with you on are that there are LOTS of professional gamblers who lead well-rounded, well-adjusted, well-respected lives, and also that it is a wise career choice for most intelligent individuals. On the latter I strongly believe that those who have the discipline, intelligence, and tenacity to be successful long-term in gaming ventures would 95% of the time be far more well-to-do income-wise had they gone into industry. I can think of several MBA counterparts of mine who have far exceeded any gambler I know of, with three in particular having net worth's in the eight to nine figures range.

On the first point Van I have worked for casinos in Vegas and Mississippi, travelled worldwide for years playing poker, and am acquaintances with more handicappers and cardplayers than I could care to count, and the number of them who lead well-rounded and genuinely fulfilling lives are very few and far between. I could give you stories of successful and ultra-talented gamblers whose lives have gone to shit, and even many of the CEOs and high executives of gaming operations have their personal lives turned to shit over this lifestyle. Again I can see why you'd want to paint the lifestyle with a "happy" brush and won't interfere anymore as it's futile if not most certainly counterproductive, but unless St. Mary's has an unorthodox population comprised of well-adjusted punters my experience in many different places with quite a number of people successful in this business is far different from yours...

[austintx05]

Why not just pass over this thread and move on then? Not hard to spot the covers posters on here. I was active there from about 2001-2004, and that place has turned into such a shithole it's ridiculous. What once had Lou and was a hub of information has now turned into a haven for 16 year olds to "internet fight." Keep that shit there...

you don't like my jj gold impersonation? Covers huh, what gave it away?

point is, if you are going to leave then leave. Don't type up a sob story as to why anyone should sympathize. If your not good at wagering, then so be it. Get the sand out of our vagina and move on.

[vanzack]

Sure there are LOTS of gamblers who make money nobody disputes that that is indeed an accurate description of reality but you would be remiss to note that relatively speaking there are LOTS MORE who don't make money. It is well documented that the majority of people who bet on sports or go to a casino and gamble are long-term losers.

Put it this way....if I showed you a picture of a guy who bets on sports or gave you a name of someone and asked you to guess whether this guy was a winner or a loser betting sports and you knew nothing about this guy....you would guess every single time that he was a loser because that choice would give you the greatest probability of being right with your answer every single time. Why would you guess everytime that he was a loser...because the vast majority of people are long-term losers. Vanzack...you are way too sharp to think otherwise.

And as far as projection goes.....you are right, it's not that simple. Just b/c something happens to me does not mean it will happen to others. Or something happens to you it will happen to someone else. That's what known as a "projection effect" in the social sciences (i.e. people tend to project their values and characteristics onto others). There is a lot variance in this world. But if we look at the aggregate of gamblers (i.e. let's say our target population under investigation is people who bet on sports) we can discover certain patterns that appear in this specific population and we can say with some confidence certain features about our target population when describing them. Research shows that gamblers tend to be more isolated, spend less time with family, they tend to be more stressed out, they tend to experience higher rates of depression, they are more likely to experience volatile mood swings, more likely to consider suicide as an option to solving problems, they tend to experience more remorse with their decisions, they are not as likely to have the same sexual urges that others who don't gamble do, they tend to have greater problems sleeping, they tend to see themselves as overly generous and philanthropic with their money as soon as they get the big win, etc....

Again, all this is well-documented in the research literature on gaming. The more you gamble the more likely you are to experience certain negative symptoms. Are these symptoms going to effect everyone who gambles...NO....but if you have 2 people, one who gambles and one who does not you would be right more times than not to ascribe these symtoms onto the person who gambles as opposed to the person who does not. Again...nothing controversial about what I am saying.

One important thing to note is that the consequences of gambling are not always financial. In fact, it is perfectly reasonable that someone who is a long-term winner could experience certain unintended effects from gambling like time-displacement (i.e. the time to gamble prevents you from doing other things that you value in your life like spending time with family and friends), health side effects (i.e. weight gain, lack of exercise, increased stress and blood pressure level, etc...), loss of time from work (i.e. losing out on a promotion, etc...) and what not.

There are indeed those for whom gambling is nothing more than a recreational activity that is integrated into many parts of their life. There are those who do it for a living and it causes no serious ill effects. However, there are those individuals many of whom who frequent gaming forums, where gambling dominates their lives and thoughts. It is those people who are most at risk for suffering many of things I mentioned.

If you do gamble you have to assess your situation and evaluate it honestly. Lot of people love gambling and experience certain thrills that they can't get from anywhere else. For other people they use at as an escape from their real life. Gambling serves different functions for people. In the end, people have to be honest with themselves and recognize that there is a high probability that they are going to experience some sort of financial and/or social setback as a result of their gambling. The loss can be modest (i.e. recrational gambler; person who goes out to Vegas once a year, guy who bets on the Super Bowl; person who buys a few lottery tickets with a real big jackpot, goes on a weekend trip to the casino, etc...) or it can be very severe (i.e. major debt; divorce from a spouse, loss of time from work, etc...).

Good luck to everyone with whatever you choose....

I agree with this, this is a much more accurate assessment of the overall picture.

There are definitely 2 types of people when it comes to gambling as you describe. My point is simply that the first group should not forget the second group, and as you point out the second should not forget the first.

[vanzack]

Vanzack I know you love to drill these guys on covers and such, but I'll politely beg to differ while I've got a few minutes this afternoon. There's no doubt that you and I often stand to benefit by brushing guys like this off and having their stories not reach our congressman's desk, but I guess the socialist side of me also empathizes to a certain degree (maybe I spent too much time in Europe years back).

The two things I tend to disagree with you on are that there are LOTS of professional gamblers who lead well-rounded, well-adjusted, well-respected lives, and also that it is a wise career choice for most intelligent individuals. On the latter I strongly believe that those who have the discipline, intelligence, and tenacity to be successful long-term in gaming ventures would 95% of the time be far more well-to-do income-wise had they gone into industry. I can think of several MBA counterparts of mine who have far exceeded any gambler I know of, with three in particular having net worth's in the eight to nine figures range.

On the first point Van I have worked for casinos in Vegas and Mississippi, travelled worldwide for years playing poker, and am acquaintances with more handicappers and cardplayers than I could care to count, and the number of them who lead well-rounded and genuinely fulfilling lives are very few and far between. I could give you stories of successful and ultra-talented gamblers whose lives have gone to shit, and even many of the CEOs and high executives of gaming operations have their personal lives turned to shit over this lifestyle. Again I can see why you'd want to paint the lifestyle with a "happy" brush and won't interfere anymore as it's futile if not most certainly counterproductive, but unless St. Mary's has an unorthodox population comprised of well-adjusted punters my experience in many different places with quite a number of people successful in this business is far different from yours...

I dont disagree with you here at all.

One note, I never said or even meaned to imply that "this was a wise career choice for intelligent individuals..."

Im not sure of the exact number that falls in to the 2 different categories of gamblers but I am sure you are right that the majority do not gamble responsibly.

My original point was that there is a group of gamblers that do indeed lead perfectly productive and normal lives, and the original post and several subsequent posts seemed to exclude that as a possibility by using global inferences about the typical gambler.

[BigBollocks]

Cheers Van, great to have you around these parts...

[BigBollocks]

lol Austin, that's the first thing I learned over here is that if you don't cater to JJ's whims you don't stand a prayer. GL and I hope you stay hot this way as well

[capitalist pig]

Best of luck to you sir. Me Ive been able to keep at as a hobby only. I dont make a wager unless its a game im going to watch on tv. IMO, this keeps it from getting to serious.

I realize, by doing this, I get the sucker odds, alot of the time, but its just for fun here. Ive never had any aspirations to become a pro gambler.

later

[WileOut]

Blaming a gambling addiction on genetics is a bunch of hogwash. Certain personality traits (which may be genetic) might lead one towards gambling...I'll concede that much. But there are no "extreme genetic codes" that exclude people from the ability to overcome a gambling addiction. It's hogwash.

I never said there are genetic codes that exclude people from the ability to overcome gambling addiction. I said there are codes that make it nearly impossible. Ultimately you can force yourself not to bet but there are those who are programmed to be severely addicted to things.

People like you think, "I can do (whatever) so others must have the ability to do the same thing". Its not true. What applies to you does not apply to anyone else.

They have done countless studies on addiction and genetics with identical twins seperated at birth. Addiction is genetic. There is no debate, its scientific fact.

Just like there are varying forms of viruses and infections, there are varying forms of addictive genes. Trillions of different ways a person can be addicted. To say everyone can just up and stop is rediculous. If that was the case then wouldn't everyone wanting to stop just stop?

[WileOut]

It is well documented that the majority of people who bet on sports or go to a casino and gamble are long-term losers.

It is true that the majority are losers, but it is a very very small majority. Like 1-2% more people lose than win. Evidence by the reports put out by the sports books in vegas. The amount of money they make over the 10% vig is like 1-2%.

This means that the amount of squares out there are far less than people think.

People tend to forget that a sports wager is in essence a coin flip situation. If you randomly pick a side, taking out the vigorish you have a 50% chance of being a long term winner.

[WileOut]

Nobody exits the womb addicted to alcohol or with a gambling problem. (with the rare exception being a crack baby)

I can tell you first hand I gamble probably more than is healthy. I make a conscious decision to make a bet and I don't blame my damn genes for it. I could become a heroin addict pretty fast too if I wanted to.

People WANT it to be a genetic problem so that they feel better about themselves for not correcting the problem. Your genes may make you more susceptible, but you ultimately make the final decision.

Everything you posted here has been proven false by researchers over and over again. Nobody exits the womb addicted to alcohol but they exit the womb with a genetic predisposition to be unable to control drinking after they start drinking. Once the drinking starts, some people have a much harder time controlling it. Don't ask me, ask any doctor on the planet.

I dont WANT it to be a genetic problem, IT IS A FACT THAT IT IS A GENETIC PROBLEM. 100% SCIENTIFIC FACT.

How do you explain how alcoholism and addiction runs in families? JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, IT IS GENETIC.

Take some biology classes then come talk.

[Flamingo Kid]

The worst thing that can happen to a person who's destined to be a losing lifetime gambler is to win that first bet. When you win your first play, a little switch goes on in the brain that says, "you won that bet because you were smart and really REALLY know a lot about the sport you wagered on".

The little switch in the brain does NOT say, "you don't have any talent at handicapping this particular sport. Your win was just a random win that will eventually happen to the worst handicapper in the world at some point"

Get it in your head that you didn't win b/c you were smart, you won because the blind squirrel always finds a nut once in a while.

[JBrown1045]

The worst thing that can happen to a person who's destined to be a losing lifetime gambler is to win that first bet. When you win your first play, a little switch goes on in the brain that says, "you won that bet because you were smart and really REALLY know a lot about the sport you wagered on".

The little switch in the brain does NOT say, "you don't have any talent at handicapping this particular sport. Your win was just a random win that will eventually happen to the worst handicapper in the world at some point"

Get it in your head that you didn't win b/c you were smart, you won because the blind squirrel always finds a nut once in a while.

Thats what happened to me. I first started at BetUS in 2004 and my first play was a parlay of NFL preseason. I took 4 games and all teams were +. Some were even +200. I knew nothing about gambling. I watched all games on NFL.com and could not believe I won. It was $230+. At that time I was only betting $10-$15 a game/parlay. Now I go as much as $300 just in AFL. Its gotten out of hand, but the money I use is money I can afford. Well most of the time anyway.

[imgv94]

Vanzack,

What % of gamblers would you assume are comfortably ahead in their gambling lives?

[phenixaz]

I feel you bro. Everything you said resonates with me. Most everyone who bets online is a life-long/long-term loser so the sooner you recognize this the better. Most guys on here will never admit that rather instead they'll continue with this macho facade about "how books are their personal ATM machines" and "how they destroy their bookie day in and day out" and all their other fantasies and hallucinations about sports betting. Don't get me wrong, there are winners and they do exist, but the vast majority are losers despite the image that many on gaming forums project. Most of the "sensible guys" will rationalize that sports betting is like investing. This is basically what is known as a dissonance reduction technique. Rather than admit that gambling is nothing more than anti-social activity that is likely to produce a long-term negative financial result they tell themselves that sports betting is no different than guys who do this on Wall Street. While in some respect true, it is more false than true.

There are a lot of other things to enjoy in your life besides gambling such as music, relationships, reading, writing, volunteering, family & friends, etc.... I wish I could find something to interest me but I can't. Even watching sports w/o money on them is boring to me now. I've tried hard trust me but once you've started gambling it's very difficult to stop. I've basically ruined my life with online gambling.....I am actually pretty decent at it and have done well the past 2 years.....but the time displacement effect it has had on my life can't be measured in dollar terms. I am 27 years old, I have basically no friends anymore, all I do is think about games all day and night, I sit on the computer watching game cast and listening to MLB games and in the fall I'll watch obscure NCAAF/NCAAB games on gamecast. It's just not a lifestyle that anyone should lead. Sure a small bet on the Super Bowl or championship game is fine but once you start betting on teams in the Sun Belt and stuff it's gone way too far.

Best thing is to stop and enjoy your life. You really want to be in your 40s and be doing this everyday and risking the important things in life like your family?

Good luck...

Well said buddybear! And good luck Hit.

[raiders72002]

What % of gamblers would you assume are comfortably ahead in their gambling lives?

Less than 1 % and and you're in the 99% group.

[imgv94]

^^^ right there with you 72002..

[vanzack]

Less than 1 % and and you're in the 99% group.

I put it more at 90/10

but those 10 are up far more than the individual 90 are down.

[crackerjack]

Everything you posted here has been proven false by researchers over and over again. Nobody exits the womb addicted to alcohol but they exit the womb with a genetic predisposition to be unable to control drinking after they start drinking. Once the drinking starts, some people have a much harder time controlling it. Don't ask me, ask any doctor on the planet.

I dont WANT it to be a genetic problem, IT IS A FACT THAT IT IS A GENETIC PROBLEM. 100% SCIENTIFIC FACT.

How do you explain how alcoholism and addiction runs in families? JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, IT IS GENETIC.

Take some biology classes then come talk.

Good thing they are mapping DNA. Once they identify that gene that causes your gambling addiction, there will be help for you yet...

[Seattle Slew]

I think you can be a losing gambler and still have fun as long as it's money you can afford to lose. I'm way down gambling (mostly on horses) but never bet more than I can afford to lose and have enough winning days to keep playing.

I don't lose any more money gambling in a year than some people spend on a country club golf membership, or a DVD movie collector, or someone who travels to Europe or other expensive vacations a couple of times a year. It's all about how you spend your recreational money.

I used to play golf a lot, but the big crowds and the cost became too much. Now whenever I hit a losing streak, I still know I'm losing less than a year's worth of golf fees.

[smallon]

hit,nothing in life is better than gambling,i wish you the best though,good luck

I was about to say there's nothing better than winning but winning is only a small part of it. It's knowing that I've chose the winners and paid my bills from it. I've been lucky picking winners in boxing - but I use the rule of never betting more than 1-5% and I stick to it. So far my loses have been minimal.

Anyhow - Hitz...good luck, I know what you mean and for some, the way out is to leave it behind.

[Hulu]

Good luck Hit. I am thinking about doing the same thing myself.

I once had designs on being a pro gambler as I'm sure many people here did when they started out. But when I look back on the past 2 years and see that I am up a grand total of $77 its really just been a waste of my life. I have scaled back quite a bit and its only had a minimal effect on my personal relationships but just the ridiculous time I've spent pouring over information and watching games simply can't be justified.

[InSpades]

Good for you. I wish I would never have started. Nothing but negative feelings for me about this industry.

IS

[JBC77]

I haven't been posting on this forum for that long, but after thinking about this for a week or two, I've decided to retire from online gambling.

I've been gambling for about 8 years, and I've had ups and downs. I started off small, then my bets increased progresively, like everyone does. A few years ago I had some losing streaks and was bailed out about 5k - sounds like its no big deal- but I was very close to ruining my career. Since then I haven't gotten myself in any trouble, and Ive actually been doing decent. But I can't stand the fact that I waste so much time on this shit. I think about all the lost opportunties over the years. It's not the money thats the biggest problem - I'm up for the past few yrs, it's the impact this shit has on all other areas of my life, and the interest i have lost in everyday activities.

I hate the fact that I spent all my holidays in front of the TV more worried about the outcome of the scores than I was spending quality time with my family.

It sucks that I've ruined a lot of relationships with GF's due to my mood swings.

It sucks when I play hookie from work to gamble and get behind.

It sucks when I sit there, go up 4-5K, feel numb, and attempt to turn it into 10K to change my feelings, and lose it all.

There are very few people out there that feel are genuinely happy...people resort to sex, drugs, alcohol, money, fame, you name it...external solutions to achieve a temporary and fake happy feeling. I'm sick of using gambling as an external solution. My life was so much better before I ever made a sports bet, and I want it back.

I miss the quality time I used to spend with family and friends, the charity events I used to partake in, and I miss watching sporting events for the fun of it. i miss waking up on a weekend and thinking of all the good stuff i'm going to do, not thinking of what games to bet on.

It's sick to think that I see sports fans and think "wow these guys are morons, why do they even care? they have no $ on it"...funny to see that I'm the idiot wagering 1,000 on the outcome of the game, and they are the pefectly sane person watching the game for entertainment purposes only.

I'm not going to get into the gambling disease, I'm sure most people on here have researched it at some point. Quiting isnt easy. But i'm ready. I've done it before, before i started back up because i thought i was "OK". there's no control in this game, it's either you're in or out...i want out.

good luck to everyone, I'm signing off.

one last thing - i'm not doing this because i'm on a losing streak. i actually had a great weekend. it didn't make me happy, it made me numb to everything else.

Your a good man. I wish you the best.

[CFitz]

Good luck,

Try to live within the parameters of your financial circumstances. There you will find life to be exciting and enjoyable regardless of your hobbies/gambling.

Living within your means = happiness.

[THE HITMAN]

From one Hit to another................best of luck to you in any future endeavors

[SBR_John]

Isn't the first step to fixing a problem realizing you have one? Or as my pappy says; Boy, the first thing you got to do to get out of a hole is to STOP digging.