Recent SBR upgrades and downgrades

jjgold · 08-15-05, 06:56 PM

777Rock - SBR initiates coverage at D+

I think that book should be a little higher, I would say C. I know a new book cannot get a real high grade but I think guys behind this have a pretty good credit back round with other shops.

Illusion · 08-15-05, 06:59 PM

I have heard alot of good things about them also jj.

raiders72001 · 08-15-05, 06:59 PM

That's why Coach's book ratings are still the best.

jjgold · 08-15-05, 07:04 PM

Raiders books have offered me big Money to give them good ratings but I am not into accepting cash from books. They all have good intentions.

my ratings are very good because I have dealt with over 150 books worldwide and have enough info on many of them to give them a rating.

My list does not go as deep as SBR's though.

I stick to 20-30 and rate them but can always give you a number with books not in my top 30.

marc · 08-15-05, 08:12 PM

Can we assume that they have the player database from dimebetting. If so, I wonder wether players who won at dime should be weary of going to 777rock

jjgold · 08-15-05, 08:32 PM

Marky I have no clue about that but what have been told this Rock777 book is ok even though it is new.

Brick Tamland · 08-15-05, 08:55 PM

So what has everyone "heard"? How do I get to "hear" things? I heard they will do book2book transfers. Can the SBR crew give us the details???

SBR_John · 08-15-05, 09:15 PM

FWIW (bill is going to hate this) I have heard they are solid too.

Bill, will any of the big names in CR give these guys a ringing endorsement? What does The Mick say?

jjgold · 08-15-05, 09:16 PM

SBR ask guys on credit side that have very respected shops about guys behind Rock777

I think they will give you a thumbs up

TheGuesser · 08-15-05, 10:41 PM

EVERY new book, unless they are FULLY backed by a CRIS, or an Oly, or another top outfit, should start out as a D and have to earn their way higher based on their own history as a post up. It doesn't matter what their rep on the credit side is, because too often failed shops claim that they are totally seperate entities from their credit side, so they should be treated as seperate entities.

Clip Joint · 08-15-05, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by TheGuesser

EVERY new book, unless they are FULLY backed by a CRIS, or an Oly, or another top outfit, should start out as a D and have to earn their way higher based on their own history as a post up. It doesn't matter what their rep on the credit side is, because too often failed shops claim that they are totally seperate entities from their credit side, so they should be treated as seperate entities.

I agree...basing ratings on potential/rumors/asking around would be a huge mistake. Can you say BetPanAm...

If a book is solid and has great backing, eventually they will earn the proper rating. But they should have to earn it over time.

SBR_John · 08-15-05, 11:30 PM

Thats pretty much what we do guys with new books.

I heard these guys are connected to "the circle" in CR so let's see. Bill does a great job but starting books accurately is like opening a new line on two teams who are in their first season.

I think Mansion started as a C and embarrassing as it is PanAm started as a B-. Those are the two highest starts that I can think of. Kind of drives Guesser's point home.

Bill Dozer · 08-16-05, 01:55 AM

777Rock may turn out to be a great post-up sportsbook. It certainly doesn't have the crazy model Dimebetting had.

Obviously we rather initiate a conservative grade leaving room for improvement instead of downgrading a book after players have joined up based on a generous rating. After speaking with 777’s staff I took note of a couple caution flags and chose to initiate their rating at D+. It is possible this rating will improve shortly.

-The folks from Dimebetting are involved.
I'm all for giving second chances and credit to those who manage to find a way to clean up their own messes but, it was odd speaking with the guys that have lied and avoided SBR and players for months. It reminded me of first speaking to Dimebetting while they were still loving life. Shortly after, they were creating conspiracy theories and blaming others for their problems. 777Rock is not the old Dimebetting and shouldn't be punished for saving players who would not have been paid otherwise. However, the choice to keep them on as reps and managers is a head scratcher.

-They stated that they "are calling every wiseguy and sharp they can find".
The track record for books that start off seeking sharp action and offering unique numbers is not good. 724Sportsbook tried to do the same with a gifted linesman but was unsuccessful. Most books open to servicing 'wiseguys' like to see some volume before betting against the best players.

The overhead and different type of player that comes with post-up makes it a different animal and a different challenge. A successful agent biz does not always translate into post-up success.

When SBR asks a new book how long they have been in business, 90% of the time the answer is: “We have been in business 5 yrs but just now came online”. Almost all of these shops claim to have healthy credit businesses. The 777 people may be one of the few that actually do.

BetAtlantic
In regards to post-up, I am told that 777 was part of the ASAP/BetAtlantic group that was bailed out by CRIS “All PlayASAP and BetAtlantic customers will be merged into one company under PlayASAP. BetCRIS will guarantee all customer balances. PlayASAP will be under BetCRIS management but will provide its own separate lines and odds. BetCRIS has taken a pro-active approach in acquiring struggling companies and turning them around in the interest of protecting the offshore gaming industry's reputation.” -BetCris.com

I was not informed of this until after initially speaking with 777’s GM and will follow up ASAP (no pun intended). Like John said, initial assessments are challenging and each evaluation is an on-going process. We owe it to each bookmaker to gather all available information but at this time I believe D+ is a fair rating.

jjgold · 08-16-05, 06:03 AM

I would think sorting through some of this stuff with books is like a maze and you do not know who to beleive or trust.

A healthy credit business before they come online has to be some sort of positive thing.

I think when Bet PCI came online they had a solid credit side and have been holding their own every since

Clip Joint · 08-16-05, 09:23 AM

After reading what Bill Dozer just wrote, how could anyone feel comfortable playing at that book???

SBR_John · 08-16-05, 09:47 AM

Well I stand corrected. the D+ seems to be spot on considering Bill's points and might even be high...

I will just say one important point and it is very worthy of highlighting: This book did come in and not just bailout Dimebetting but paid in cash (no rollover) all of the Dimebetting players. This just never happens so I think their intentions are good.

THE SHRINK · 08-16-05, 09:57 AM

I have often said that your sports book ratings are second to no one in this industry. I know that many gamblers and sports books that I speak with really appreciate all of the hard work you guys put into them...

One thing that cracks me up is when you try and distinguish between a D minus, F plus, etc.

It's bad enough to receive such a low grade and it reminds me of a certain time when I was in High School many moons ago...

I wrote a History paper that was graded an F MINUS of all things. I often wondered why this Teacher went out of his way to not only FLUNK ME as an F would have been sufficient, but he had to rub it in by giving me an F MINUS...

Oh, those were the days...

THE SHRINK

marc · 08-16-05, 10:53 AM

The problem with some of these credit shopes is taht they don't fully appreciate all the issue involved in running a postup shop. For instance you don't have players constantly withdrawing and redepositing. So you have higher transaction costs involved, plus you need to properly fund your neteller account. The problem taht some of these credit shops have is that theri neteller accounts often run dry. Also when it comes to bonuses, these credit shops have no experience in dealing with bonus abuse. Before they know it, they've losts thousands upon thousands of dollars. Also when you are dealing with credit players, you have an agent who is vouching for the person, so you know you're getting a good player. With post up players, you have no idea who these guys are.

I hope these 777 rock guys know what they are getting into

Rainbow · 08-16-05, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Clip Joint

After reading what Bill Dozer just wrote, how could anyone feel comfortable playing at that book???

Clip, sometimes people dont get all the details before they start down grading a book, one thing my Dad told me when I was a kid, if you believe everything you hear you will never get no where in life, so MANY people exagerate so much that its pathetic. 777 ROCK is solid, if you think different call Spiro.

jjgold · 08-16-05, 11:41 AM

I will agree here with Kenny about SBR's ratings

No one can touch them, most other sites you just pay owner and he says they are excellent

Also no other site even knows where CR is, SBR crew there all the time and that is so important

SBR_John · 08-16-05, 11:57 AM

The Costa Rica office is very important. Many of the books were already weary of SBR because we do not fit the mold to what they are used to.

Being able to meet them for lunch or even just having them call on the local line is important. I make fun of Costa Rica but we like it there and we can do our job better there.

777rock · 08-16-05, 12:13 PM

BetAtlantic
In regards to post-up, I am told that 777 was part of the ASAP/BetAtlantic group that was bailed out by CRIS “All PlayASAP and BetAtlantic customers will be merged into one company under PlayASAP. BetCRIS will guarantee all customer balances. PlayASAP will be under BetCRIS management but will provide its own separate lines and odds. BetCRIS has taken a pro-active approach in acquiring struggling companies and turning them around in the interest of protecting the offshore gaming industry's reputation.” -BetCris.com

I was not informed of this until after initially speaking with 777’s GM and will follow up ASAP (no pun intended). Like John said, initial assessments are challenging and each evaluation is an on-going process. We owe it to each bookmaker to gather all available information but at this time I believe D+ is a fair rating

I believe whoever told you that I was bailed out by cris has no idea what they are talking about. When I was with betatlantic we paid out like clock work. Shortly after the ncaa tournament I closed it down, and instead of firing guys that I promised jobs I made a deal with asap. They get the customers and they take the employees. Maybe somebody ought to call Mickey to find out what really happened. And at the sametime call Spiro ask him if I paid him out every Monday morning, which by no means small figures.

Yes I do want every wise guy. I already have most of them why not take all of them? I have dealt with wise guys and I know how to use them. Thats why I am in the office 13 hours a day, because you have to be on top of things when you deal with wise guys. And thats the reason I pulled the plug with betatlantic I could not commit full time, And I would stress out, that things would not be done right.

Yes I have been around as long as I say, maybe not as 777rock.com but you can verify it by calling Wagerweb, Olympic or Delmar. And dimebetting is under my control, John the owner is our tech guy, and his other two employees are supervisors as I run the lines, and every major decision. If I was a credit risk would I be able to do transfers with all these books? Would I be able to leave big balances in offices, and not ask for payouts?

SBR_John · 08-16-05, 12:16 PM

Good post 777.

And good luck with the new book. We are a bit tough on new joints because of the high failure rate.

But I wanted to thank you for paying the Dimeplayer players and assure you we will do our best to get you an accurate rating.

Clip Joint · 08-16-05, 12:18 PM

I think it was Dimebetting...not Dimeplayer.

Luke and the guys at Legendz would NEVER need any help paying players.

why · 08-16-05, 12:53 PM

I have never heard of Las Vegas Sportsbook, if possible could you provide a brief history?

Bill Dozer · 08-16-05, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by THE SHRINK

I have often said that your sports book ratings are second to no one in this industry. I know that many gamblers and sports books that I speak with really appreciate all of the hard work you guys put into them...

One thing that cracks me up is when you try and distinguish between a D minus, F plus, etc.

It's bad enough to receive such a low grade and it reminds me of a certain time when I was in High School many moons ago...

I wrote a History paper that was graded an F MINUS of all things. I often wondered why this Teacher went out of his way to not only FLUNK ME as an F would have been sufficient, but he had to rub it in by giving me an F MINUS...

Oh, those were the days...

THE SHRINK

I had a teacher like that. She scored everything to the exact number. A 50 was an F+, a 30 was an F and if you didn't hand in anything you got the F bomb, F-. I never got an F- on something I turned in though. Maybe we can thank that teacher for turning you into a numbers guy?? =D

The veteran readers are often confused by what makes an F- or F+ book. Obviously we are not grading these books for people who are looking to deposit money. (Although, you would be surprised to see how many bettors think a D is safe because it has not been given an F

).

I see these grades a lot like my teacher, who handed out different shades of failing, did. The goal was not to show who sucks worse, but to show how close the student was to actually earning a passing grade.

Most players who are interested in these problem book ratings have already deposited. Unfortunately, they are using SBR's search feature to see how screwed they are, not to gauge the risk of a future investment. For example, players who had money at Dimebetting which looked hopeless saw an F+ while players who have money at WagerFree, BML and ESB see an F-.

Illusion · 08-16-05, 03:14 PM

BetBBB - SBR initiates coverage at C+

SBR_John · 08-16-05, 03:48 PM

Ahh my apologies!

Its Dimebetting not Dimeplayer.

TheGuesser · 08-16-05, 09:25 PM

It's great that 777rock is bailing out the Dimebetting players. But it doesn't mean much as far as their long term health. I believe Gamblers Avenue made their entrance into the post up business by bailing out Wagers Paradise players(I was one). A few months later, Gamblers Avenue players had to be bailed out by the Royal takeover. The D grade or thereabouts is warranted for any new post up book, unless they are part of the umbrella of a previously proven post up entity.

Illusion · 08-18-05, 01:23 AM

SportsbettingFootball upgraded from C+ to B-

jjgold · 08-18-05, 06:18 AM

I love this upgrade/downgrade thread but I think it should be a new thread when it happens , easier to read through

Illusion · 08-18-05, 01:20 PM

I will start a new thread next time jj.

jjgold · 08-18-05, 01:48 PM

Thanks Illusion I take this shit very serious

Illusion · 08-18-05, 01:50 PM

I know you do bud.