AMANDA KNOX -- guilty or innocent???

MilfDriller · 12-11-09, 10:15 PM

more ...

Let me get this clear.

You would throw out the witnesses. You would throw out the statements. You would throw out the DNA evidence. You would throw out the physical evidence. You would throw out the faked burglary. You would throw out the moved body. You would throw out the locked bedroom door. You would throw out the lies about the police calls. You would throw out the footprints. You would throw out the luminol evidence. You would throw out the murder weapon. You would throw out the JUL 2009 'dream sequence' testimony. (I could go on of course).

What exactly would you *keep*?

This goes for MB, too. You'd throw out almost everything that a normal run-of-the-mill murder investigation would include. There are thousands of cases like this every week all over the world and you'd each throw out all the evidence every single time.

MilfDriller · 12-11-09, 10:18 PM

I believe all 3 were involved... but I just can't pull the trigger on it.

With the Afr guy the evidence is an absolute slam dunk. W/ access to what the jury saw I guess I could convict her...

MilfDriller · 12-11-09, 10:21 PM

Below is a theory that I do not buy at all...

Seeing that a witness placed all 4 together, I would even go further and say that I can easily see that perhaps MK and Guede were on a double date with AK and RS a day or two before the murder. Guede was attracted to MK, MK not to Guede (this is why she begged off when AK tried to get her to hang out with them the night of the murder). AK became incensed by MK's refusal and decided to "teach her a lesson." MK comes home from her friend's. AK/RS restrain MK and hold a knife to her throat while RG has his way with her. RG uses the restroom at some point, leaving AK and RS alone with MK. He hears the screams and bolts without flushing. Meanwhile, AK and RS had the knife to MK's throat - maybe she began struggling harder with RG gone, whatever it was, this is the point where it went terribly wrong. AK might not have intended to slit MK's throat - but once it had happened, that was all she wrote. At that point, AK and RS panicked and attempted to cover up their tracks - hence multiple stab wounds from an as-of-yet unfound knife, the extreme cleanup, etc.

Do I think it was planned? No. But given the testimonies, timeline, and evidence I find this to be an incredibly plausible theory on what happened in the apartment that night.

MilfDriller · 12-11-09, 10:23 PM

The Afr guy was in the blood. His finger print, palm print, he had contact w/ the blood.... so him just going to take a dump and then they slit her throat while he's dropping down a deuce... and he goes 'oh shit' and runs out of there w/o flushing?

I think not. Also, had he simply assaulted her, he could say, 'I did not kill her'... and he would be much for the better and have a greatly reduced sentence.

MilfDriller · 12-11-09, 10:25 PM

I also believe that it was the Afr guy's knife as he was in the habit of taking his knife w/ him on his criminal enterprises.

MilfDriller · 12-11-09, 10:44 PM

would like to see this video if anybody can pull it....

Now, this was a good one on Focus TV (Pro7). Very balanced (but with the undertone of guilt) and with info i didn't know yet.
Strange was that they said that the true victim easily is forgotten and showed Mez's videeovlip (part of it) and pictures but the everything else of the report was all about Amanda again. She seems to fascinate the media.
They also mentioned RS and RG though but only seconds in relation...

But what shocked me was that they showed Merediths corpse. Only the private part was shadowed but one could see her laying on the back and one could see that she was naked. They also showed Merediths throath with all the blood. I thought they are not allowed to do that?

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 12:47 AM

finally a US media w/ some presentation of the facts

Promo Of New Book By Knox Groupie Anne Bremner Stands Corrected{/exp:channel:titles}

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/jeanine_pirro_a_former_powerhouse_prosecutor_weighs_in_accurately_on_the_c/

Ravy Pacer · 12-12-09, 02:07 AM

Milf

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 03:59 AM

This may sound crazy, but this clip from 0:00 to 0:08 is perhaps the whole reason why this case fascinates me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gW67Fj9RWY

Check out the laugh. What, who me? On trial for murder? Pass the potato chips.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 04:02 AM

Guede does not have the same forces behind him, but even with him I have read that he was a drug dealer: yet he has no convictions. I have read that he was a "drifter"; but he lived in Perugia from the age of 5 and did not leave it for extended periods. I have read that he was caught sleeping in a nursery in Milan and that despite having stolen goods and a knife he was not arrested; but I have also read that he was arrested and charged on that occasion. And we know that the police had his fingerprints, whether from that incident or another I cannot say.

Hello. I'm new here and this will be my first post

The state had Rudy Guede's fingerprints on file from his Identity card application. All immigrants to Italy have to put their fingerprints on file once they reach 18. It was the print off of the pillow that was run through the database and came up as a match with that record. Rudy's DNA was also matched while he was still in Germany. After matching his fingerprints they pulled his address and raided his apartment and got his DNA sample from his tooth brush. That was what they were able to use as a reference for DNA results coming in from the forensics lab in Rome.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 04:07 AM

Here's a problem I have w/ this. The Afr dude has markers everywhere. As noted above, they took his print off the pillow and made the match. Plus he was everywhere else. Anyways, if this was a spontaneous act.... I SINCERELY DOUBT that Amanda + bf will jump into the activity w/ gloves on and other protection to eliminate the transfer of prints/dna.

Would the Afr guy participate in this murder slashing totally out in the open while his 2 accomplices were protected w/ gear? Doesn't make sense.

This is important b/c they stated it was a highly involved trio...

Anyways, supposing they completed the murder unprotected as was the case w/ the Afr guy... they then decide to clean up everything and one of the main goals will be to systematically eliminate their dna/prints from the girl's body and basically everywhere? Jesus Christ couldn't even do that even if he pulled a favor from God himself.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 04:21 AM

Read the summaries of facts on TJMK , read everything on the FOA website for comparison, review the timeline of events, read AK's trial testimony, view Kermit's detailed powerpoints about the evidence. Others here may disagree with me, but this is my list of the absolute minimum reading you can do to be entitled to present an opinion about whether the trial was a barbaric miscarriage of justice.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 04:26 AM

AK: Amanda Knox, born July 9, 1987, Seattle, Washington.

GCM: Avvocato, please begin.

CP: Good morning, Miss Amanda, I am Carlo Pacelli, I am the defense lawyer for
Patrick Diya Lumumba. A little remark: I will try to keep my questions in
simpler Italian. May I start?

AK: Thank you, yes.

CP: You know Rudy Hermann Guede?

AK: Not much.

CP: In what circumstances did you meet him?

AK: I was in the center, near the church. It was during an evening when I met
the guys that lived underneath in the apartment underneath us, and while I
was mingling with them, they introduced me to Rudy.

CP: So it was on the occasion of a party at the house of the neighbors
downstairs?

AK: Yes. What we did is, they introduced me to him downtown just to say
"This is Rudy, this is Amanda", and then I spent most of my time with Meredith,
but we all went back to the house together.

CP: Did you also know him, or at least see him, in the pub "Le Chic", Rudy?

AK: I think I saw him there once.

CP: Listen, this party at the neighbors, it took place in the second half of
October? What period, end of October? 2007?

AK: I think it was more in the middle of October.

[An interlude in which the judge Massei asks the interpreter to not do
a simultaneous translation in which her voice is heard at the same time as
Amanda's, but to translate short phrases consecutively. Because everyone
wants to hear the answer in English, and it is being recorded. He advises
Amanda to speak in very short phrases.]

CP: On the occasion of this party, Miss, was hashish smoked?

AK: There was a spinello that was smoked, yes.

CP: At that time, in October 2007, did you use drugs?

AK: Every once in a while with friends.

CP: Which substances were they?

AK: Marijuana.

CP: Now, when did you first meet Diya Patrick Lumumba?

AK: I was at the Universita per Stranieri, but I met him through a friend
of Laura.

CP: Did you work at the pub "Le Chic" run by Mr. Patrick?

AK: Yes.

CP: Since when had you been working at the pub?

....

the rest can be found

This Page Does Not Exist

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

Oops, looks like the page is lost.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 04:32 AM

You read this testimony and it is really good.

She is just a fantastic liar.... or I don't know what. I don't know how she does it.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 04:37 AM

I told her,
look, everything seemed to be there, not as if someone entered and took
things away, because my computer was still in my room, I saw that the television
was still in the living room. For me, I hadn't even thought that there was
a robbery. I thought maybe someone went in and out really quickly, because
if someone leaves faeces in the toilet, maybe something had happened and they
had had to leave really really fast. Maybe.

That doesn't make any sense to me. I have seen a turd left in a toilet on various occasions and it has never occurred to me that 'Wow, hey, someone must've been in a hurry and they went in and out really quickly. They had to leave really, really fast'

That just doesn't fly at all.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 05:31 AM

Watch this video.

I have never seen a hard-core, stone-cold murderer so calm, casual... I don't know, it's just amazing.

404 | Sky TG24

http://tg24.sky.it/tg24/cronaca/2009/06/13/Meredith_Amanda_quella_sera_ho_fumato_uno_spinello.html

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 05:40 AM

Don't know why it didn't occur to me previously, but maybe she did slash the girl's neck... and it so overwhelmed her mind that it was almost as if it was erased from her memory or something to that effect. That such a reality could not be possible...

This would explain her masterful performances in court. No fvcking Oscar-winning actor could pull off what she does in court. Not even close. She is just too good.

She did not do it b/c it has not been reconciled in her mind... and thus it has been completely eliminated.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 05:56 AM

Watch the sequence from 6:45 on.

404 | Sky TG24

http://tg24.sky.it/tg24/cronaca/2009/06/13/Meredith_Amanda_in_via_della_Pergola_.html

This is the questioning regarding when she was back in the house in the bathroom... regarding the blood and so forth. Her acting here is rather poor... and I can't give her her 5* performance. This looks like shit and lies.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 06:28 AM

Reading all of her testimony... the bitch just doesn't make sense. And I'm not talking about from the point of, 'Well, yes, she's lying and trying to cover her tracks'.

I'm talking about her ability to simply answer a yes or no question. In the mind of a young woman if you ask her if the sky is blue or aqua blue.... well, you'll get a long-winded response w/ illogical babble that never ends. Ask this same question to a woman in her mid-30's and beyond.. and you'll get hysterics. Bitches are simply crazy.

Anyways, she is asked question after question in court and all of her answers fly out of her mouth on a wild tangent yet all make sense in her mind. Then the prosecutor has to repeatedly clarify and clarify and clarify to get a simple answer.

So this is either pure genius on the part of Amanda.... (b/c she does it so well and w/o artifice) ... or she is just a little smart but dumb as a rock and as normal as any non-linear young woman.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 06:29 AM

And she is so good at this.... that, goddammit, it could all be true. She could be telling the truth...

Yet all of the information just simply doesn't bear out. That's why I'd have to say that she could have potentially slit the throat and then LITERALLY washed all of those memories from her mind...

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 06:33 AM

I'm sorry, but this following testimony just does not fvcking fly. This is absolutely ridiculous.... even from the standpoint that it's coming out of the mouth of a crazy, bobble-minded young woman.

AK: I needed time to think. I don't know the precise moment where bing! but
it was this continuous evolution of asking myself: So, what did I actually do?
If I didn't do these things with him, then he's probably innocent, but I
only know the things that I actually do know, about what I myself did.
About what I actually said about him, it was not true. It was a mistake.
But -- I don't know -- I don't know anything any more [this is what Amanda
says, but I think it's a grammatical mistake for past tense: "I didn't know
anything any more."] In fact, the thing that was important for me was to know
whether I myself was there or not, and when I remembered that I wasn't,
that was the important thing which I wanted to say, and also the fact that
what I had said about him was a mistake.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 06:37 AM

This just sounds so farfetched. How the fvck can you not know whether you were there or not?

Oh yeah... and 'Then when I remembered that I wasn't (there)... (I realized that) what I had said about him was a mistake' .... that she had falsely accused him.

This rings so true of arguing w/ one's wife. They make absolutely no fvcking sense, there is no logic, and yet they're fvcking right each time. Presto. Magic.

And the crazy thing is.... I believe this bitch. I don't thinks she's lying.... b/c she actually believes the fvcking lies that are coming out of her mouth.

MilfDriller · 12-12-09, 06:41 AM

This whore gets busy..

FM: You say that you met Raffaele Sollecito on October 25.

AK: Yes, at that concert.

FM: Okay. Six days before the murder of Mez.

AK: Okay.

FM: When did you first have sexual relations with Sollecito?

AK: On the first day.

FM: On the night of the 25th?

AK: Yes.

This is really inconsequential... except for the fact that she fvcked some random old man in a train bathroom while her little sister was on the train... and then, purportedly, went back to his place after getting off the train.

eastvan09 · 12-12-09, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by MilfDriller

I believe all 3 were involved... but I just can't pull the trigger on it. With the Afr guy the evidence is an absolute slam dunk. W/ access to what the jury saw I guess I could convict her...

Bingo! Thanks Milf for all your updates. I went to the True Justice for Meredith Kercher site and it is nice to see some balanced journalism. I love Jeannie crushing Geraldo.

At some point I want to focus on a tangent examining AK's relationship with all the other involved players, especially Amanda & Meredith, and Amanda & Rudy. AK is the bond within this puzzle!

AK and Meredith: Was AK jealous of Meredith as an individual, or of Meredith's friendships with their mutual friends. Amongst the "4" most involved parties, the longest friendship is that of AK + Meredith (I think).

AK and Rudy

AK and RS -->AK uses sex to control RS. If they only met a week before the murder, RS may have had way more sex in that one week with Amanda than he was accustomed to in a year. RS worhsipped serial killers, a macabre coincidence?)

AK and Filomena / Filomena + Meredith. (Previous roommates as well) This tangent is based upon speculation on my part that Amanda is the bond tieing the entire case together. I want to look at whether AK was jealous of Meredith. Perhaps Meredith disapproved of AK's promiscuity. Perhaps Meredith saw signs of AK's dark side. Maybe Filomena or the guys downstairs noticed something odd in AK's previous behaviour. Often there are signs someone is crazy before the behaviour manifests itself in a criminal manner.

Examining the women in AK's life may shed more light on the true nature of things. I think a lot of the men were distracted by the opportunity to have sex with AK (perhaps guys who were not sexually lacking were level headed re AK). To paraphrase Austin Powers "She is like the town bicycle, everybody had a ride." The single men/ cheating men may have tried to stay near the town bike incase they were offered a ride. Presumably the women were hetero and not interested in lesbian sex with AK.

JoshW · 12-12-09, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by MilfDriller

This may sound crazy, but this clip from 0:00 to 0:08 is perhaps the whole reason why this case fascinates me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gW67Fj9RWY

Check out the laugh. What, who me? On trial for murder? Pass the potato chips.

I agree with you. That isn't normal behavior for a girl her age. There is something off about her, but I am not sure what it is. She isn't savvy enough to be a psychopath. A psychopath would have shown the seriousness of the situation, or at least NOT BEEN GIDDY.

losturmarbles · 12-12-09, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by eastvan09

Bingo! Thanks Milf for all your updates. I went to the True Justice for Meredith Kercher site and it is nice to see some balanced journalism. I love Jeannie crushing Geraldo.

At some point I want to focus on a tangent examining AK's relationship with all the other involved players, especially Amanda & Meredith, and Amanda & Rudy. AK is the bond within this puzzle!

AK and Meredith: Was AK jealous of Meredith as an individual, or of Meredith's friendships with their mutual friends. Amongst the "4" most involved parties, the longest friendship is that of AK + Meredith (I think).

AK and Rudy

AK and RS -->AK uses sex to control RS. If they only met a week before the murder, RS may have had way more sex in that one week with Amanda than he was accustomed to in a year. RS worhsipped serial killers, a macabre coincidence?)

AK and Filomena / Filomena + Meredith. (Previous roommates as well) This tangent is based upon speculation on my part that Amanda is the bond tieing the entire case together. I want to look at whether AK was jealous of Meredith. Perhaps Meredith disapproved of AK's promiscuity. Perhaps Meredith saw signs of AK's dark side. Maybe Filomena or the guys downstairs noticed something odd in AK's previous behaviour. Often there are signs someone is crazy before the behaviour manifests itself in a criminal manner.

Examining the women in AK's life may shed more light on the true nature of things. I think a lot of the men were distracted by the opportunity to have sex with AK (perhaps guys who were not sexually lacking were level headed re AK). To paraphrase Austin Powers "She is like the town bicycle, everybody had a ride." The single men/ cheating men may have tried to stay near the town bike incase they were offered a ride. Presumably the women were hetero and not interested in lesbian sex with AK.

nice, more theories

what, do you work for the prosecution?

wtf is "balanced journalism"? journalism is journalism, there's nothing to balance unless you inject opinion. but opinion isn't journalism and Jeanine Pirro isn't a journalist.

please tell me where Van Sant gets it wrong:

eastvan09 · 12-13-09, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by losturmarbles

nice, more theories

what, do you work for the prosecution? wtf is "balanced journalism"? journalism is journalism, there's nothing to balance unless you inject opinion. but opinion isn't journalism and Jeanine Pirro isn't a journalist. please tell me where Van Sant gets it wrong:

I will settle for two people expressing views. I mainly watch American TV for entertainment, not for balanced journalism lol!

Talk shows like Nancy Grace and Larry King invite journalists and various experts and personalities to pontificate.

This forum is an excellent sounding block for feedback on our ideas. The puzzle surrounding Meredith Kercher's tragic murder is a sordid affair. I hope more facts come out about the motive for the murder. The guilty have been convicted and we may never learn the motive for the murder.

MilfDriller · 12-13-09, 07:40 AM

I have watched this piece as well as many others in the media yet after reviewing the case it becomes clear that it is 'slanted' as it leaves out numerous details which are damning.

Many of those details can be found throughout this thread. There are posts in this thread that answer your specific inquiry, namely #211.

I am having a hard time understanding how the only dna/print evidence of AK or bf at the crime scene is linked to a bra strap. I am not wholly sold on the strap, the questionable knife, the bloody foot prints. The staged break-in, the finding of Amanda's lamp in the dead girl's room, the moving and covering of the body, the tracks of the body on the floor, the coronor's report of how lividity had set in one side of her body before hit was moved... suggesting that it was moved a fair amount of time after the death... could go on and on and on.

MilfDriller · 12-13-09, 07:44 AM

here is a foto of the bathroom (chemically treated) and another foto inside the girl's room

MilfDriller · 12-13-09, 07:54 AM

the bathroom did not look like the picture above. I'll have to dig up the video of the bathroom taken by the Italians. the coloring should not be interpreted to be blood

Amanda returned to the cottage and used this bathroom to take a shower... so states her testimony. if u see the video, you'll see that none of that was visible.

also, behind the faucet is Meredith's room. and in this same bathroom (above) the Afr guy took and left his shit. the taking of the shit had to be before the murder... b/c the Afr guy was 'on top' of the crime scene. he couldn't have been covered in blood and then left a spotless shit in the toilet

I am still struggling w/ the shit and the lamp. Just bad hygiene? huh?

And in her testimony Amanda says, 'and when I went to take my shower I noticed a shit in the toilet... and whoever took it must've been in a real hurry to simply leave it there'

I have seen shits left in a toilet but it has never occurred to me that that person must have been in a real hurry...

losturmarbles · 12-13-09, 11:24 AM

milf, it's all circumstantial. there is no evidence that ak commited murder. the whole prosecution resembles a witch hunt.

poker_dummy101 · 12-13-09, 11:26 AM

a key question:

was the shit taken before or after he killed her

Chuck Sims · 12-13-09, 12:02 PM

I keep reading its all "circumstantial". What do you think convicts murder suspects, testimony from the victim? Of course not. Circumstantial evidence is the strongest evidence, and usually the best evidence. DNA is pretty strong circumstantial eveidence when used to convict a suspect of murder.

"please tell me where Van Sant gets it wrong:" He gets it wrong by being a biased reporter. I watched his report and I came away with the thought AK was being railroaded. But knowing how slanted CBS reporting can be, I went on the internet and looked at evidence presented at trial. My god, this f-u-c-k Van Sant left out damning evidence against AK in his reporting. Not only that, he misrepresented the facts.

bettilimbroke999 · 12-13-09, 12:21 PM

Sharp post Chuck, ppl have this idea that DNA now IS law enforcement, there's still a puzzle to piece together whether it was found or not (like what role did AK play in this murder, did she just not care that her roommate was getting raped/murdered in the next room), in truth if Amanda's DNA were found in the apartment she lived in it would mean absolutely nothing, theres no DNA timeline that shows exactly when DNA was placed

I'm actually amazed that her DNA wasn't found in the room bc hell she lived with Meredith, I mean how at some point in their living together did she not leave DNA in her own apartment? Was she just not allowed in Meredith's room or something? Something tells me these two roommates absolutely hated each other

losturmarbles · 12-13-09, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Chuck Sims

My god, this f-u-c-k Van Sant left out damning evidence against AK in his reporting. Not only that, he misrepresented the facts.

like what?!?!

what damning evidence? what misrepresentation?

i don't know whether or not ak is guilty of murder, but according to the evidence that i've seen so far, she's not guilty no matter what makes and doesn't make sense.

the dna evidence doesn't meet acceptable standards.

the knife, which doesn't match the outline of the murder weapon on the bed, contained trace amounts of dna. that could have easily been cross contaminated or even planted. the dna didn't return high enough RFUs to even be considered evidence worthly. on top of that there was NO blood evidence on the knife. zilch.

the bra clasp was left laying on the ground at the crime scene for weeks, until they realized that they didn't have any dna evidence against ak and rs. they went back, mishandled the clasp and found a mixture of ak, rs, and rg's dna. but no other part of the bra had ak and rs's dna, just rg's. ak and rs's dna wasn't found on kercher's clothing, objects collected from kercher's room, or in samples from her body – although rg's dna was found everywhere. don't you find that the least bit suspicious that they find NO dna evidence of ak and rs, but only after they go back looking for it, they mysteriously find dna a clasp that was left before, and that somehow is damning?