Sad story all around....I know she's hiding shit and I'm beginning to believe she was involved.
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A few additional thoughts.
Whether one attacker (100% disproven imo) or many, they all exited through the front door of the flat. What evidence on the inside of Meredith's door handle? The front door knob? The gate latch leaving the property? No blood or fingerprint evidence at all in these critical locations is very strong evidence of cleanup as they were heard running from the scene almost immediately after Meredith's last scream. A bloody handprint on the doorknob leaving the cottage - how could there Not be one? It had to have been cleaned up.
The two cell phones - they were not found with any fingerprints or DNA on them (that I have ever heard of, certainly they would have checked?) Rudy ran from the scene covered in blood, he would have left evidence on the phones as he had nowhere to clean himself up until he got back to his own home. This I think points to RS or AK taking the phones with them when they flee the cottage the first time, already having taken them away from Meredith before inflicting the fatal wound, then tossing them sometime later that evening during the cleanup phase.
Both RG and Kokomani mention seeing RS wearing the strange white cap with the red stripe later found to be a swim cap and located in the home of RS. This is an amazing piece of evidence tying together the witness, the culprits and some form of premeditation. It is too strange and specific to be coincidental and too bizarre to be irrelevant. To me it corroborates Kokomani's eyewitness testimony and shows that RS left home with some kind of plan in which he wished to be disguised.Comment -
The problem with Rudi's story is that the bruising around the victim's privates indicates that she was sexually assaulted, i.e., it was not consenual. Then there's also the question of how well he really knew Meredith and whether she would have invited him in. She gave none of her friends any indication that she had an interest in him or was planning to meet him (or anyone else) that night, and she had a boyfriend.
Also, if he truly were innocent of the murder, why did he not identify AK and RS initially as having been present, when he claimed that a mysterious Italian man had committed the crime.Comment -
this is funny
Sorry to be the new guy, but this case just amazes me... So, Amanda was caught with a mop and bucket. The day after the murder of her roommate. By police. Who showed up at the semi-cleaned up crime scene unexpectedly. Amanda claimed she was going to drag the mop and bucket to her boyfriend's apartment. To clean up a water spill. From the night before.
I'd like to see the eyeroll that would engender among detectives.Comment -
There were defensive knife wounds on one hand with bruises on that arm, I believe around the elbow, indicating that she did use it to try to ward off the attack. The other was not so injured and thus must've been restrained. So at least one hand was needed to pin her arm, one to stab her, one to sexually assault her, and one to bruise up her face and crush her hyoid bone. At least 2 people acting together, but probably 3, especially if another knife was involved or one of them was not that strong.Comment -
Milf
You should have been a lawyer or a judge, you seem to like this shitComment -
MILFY,
I was in the U.K. about the time that crap broke out for a short 3 day stint,very little was said about it on our side of the world but that story captivated all of Europe everyday for a whole month.I fallowed the case assiduously till they(Knox,her boyfriend and the repulsive African baboon killer) went to jail awaiting trail.Suffice to say MILFY in a few words that the filthy cunt is as guilty as the ***** and her puke boyfriendComment -
i am assuming she had water in the bucket with the mop?Comment -
guilty, I'm glad we talked about itComment -
Here is a crime scene video. Actual forensics team gathering shit.
Imho, they are rather crude in their effort. I'd equate it to washing your hands in toilet water. Some people just don't give a fvck. hell, some people don't even wash their hands after leaving the bathroom.
Btw, confirmed the TP in the toilet w/ the shit. The dude simply did not give a shit.Comment -
A lot to go over...
but blood on both sides of the door handles. and no match w/ Knox or the bf? to me that means it was the straight up gangsta who must've been the main player in the killing. how could amanda/bf leave all that blood on the handles... yet none of their own dna or anything?
and as careless as it was... had to be the Afr guy
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Here is a pick of the Afr guy's murderous dookie.
Imo, he shits like a girl. I fill the bowl up w/ powerful shits.Comment -
Amanda said that she saw it, thought it was disgusting, but decided not to flush it....
what a nasty slut.Comment -
this is just so chilling..... what a cunt
“I told him that life is full of choices and that these choices are not necessarily between good and evil, but between what’s better and what’s worse, and that what we all must do is that which we believe is best.”
Knox concluded: “It was a very long conversation but it happened and it must have happened while Meredith was being killed.”Comment -
THE LIES
When the prosecutors present the forensic evidence, the defence lawyers will do their level best to try and muddy the waters, by claiming that much of the damning forensic evidence is due to contamination.
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Well, good luck with that one. There is a FAR greater danger for them lurking…
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We have already described in among other places here and here how Amanda Knox has boxed herself in with her own words.
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Raffaele Sollecito has done precisely the same. Sollecito has also said things that are demonstrably untrue, and they now seriously haunt him and his team.
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There is no question that Raffaele Sollecito has deliberately and repeatedly lied. He even himself admitted that he told the police “un sacco di cazzate” (a load of rubbish), and the judges at the Italian Supreme Court noted that he had lied and was reluctant to cooperate.
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Lie one. Raffaele Sollecito first claimed in an interview with Kate Mansey from the Sunday Mirror that he and Amanda Knox were at a friend’s party on the night of the murder. It would have been obviously a tad difficult for Sollecito to find any witnesses who had attended an imaginary party to provide him and Knox with an alibi. This alibi was predictably abandoned very quickly.
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Lie two. Sollecito then claimed that he was his apartment with Amanda Knox. This alibi is flatly contradicted by a silent witness: forensic evidence. According to the scientific police, there are six separate pieces of forensic evidence, including an abundant amount of his DNA on Meredith’s bra clasp, that place him in the cottage on Via della Pergola on the night of the murder.
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Lie three. Sollecito then came up with a third alibi. He claimed that he was alone at his apartment and that Knox had gone out from 9pm to 1am. Both Sollecito and Knox gave completely different accounts of where they were, who they were with and what they doing on the night of the murder. These weren’t small inconsistencies, but huge, whopping lies.
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Lies four and five. Sollecito and Knox told the postal police that he had called the police before the postal police had turned up at the cottage and were waiting for them. Sollecito later admitted that this was not true and that he had lied because he had believed Amanda Knox’s version of what had happened.
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He said he went outside “to see if I could climb up to Meredith’s window” but could not. “I tried to force the door but couldn’t, and at that point I decided to call my sister for advice because she is a Carabinieri officer. She told me to dial 112 (the Italian emergency number) but at that moment the postal police arrived. He added: “In my former statement I told you a load of rubbish because I believed Amanda’s version of what happened and did not think about the inconsistencies.” (The Times, 7 November, 2007).
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Lie six. Knox and Sollecito said they couldn’t remember most of what happened on the night of the murder, because they had smoked cannabis.
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It is medically impossible for cannabis to cause such dramatic amnesia and there are no studies that have ever demonstrated that this is possible.
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Long term use of cannabis may affect short-term memory, which means that users might have difficulty recalling a telephone number. But it won’t wipe out whole chunks of an evening from their memory banks.
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Lie seven. Sollecito claimed that he had spoken to his father at 11pm. Phone records show that there was no telephone conversation at this time. Sollecito’s father called him a couple of hours earlier at 8.40pm.
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Lie eight. Sollecito claimed that he was surfing the Internet from 11pm to 1am. The Kercher’s lawyer, Franco Maresca, pointed out that credible witnesses had shattered Sollecito’s alibi for the night of the murder. Sollecito still maintains he was home that night, working on his computer, but computer specialists have testified that his computer was not used for an eight-hour period on the night of Meredith’s murder
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Lie nine. Sollecito claimed that he had slept until 10pm the next day. However, he used his computer at 5.32am and turned on his mobile phone at 6.02am. The Italian Supreme Court remarked that his night was “sleepless” to say the least.
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Lie ten. When Sollecito heard that the scientific police had found Meredith’s DNA on the double DNA knife in his apartment. He told a cock and bull story about accidentally pricking Meredith’s hand whilst cooking at his apartment.
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“The fact that Meredith’s DNA is on my kitchen knife is because once, when we were all cooking together, I accidentally pricked her hand.’’ Meredith had never been to Sollecito’s apartment. Sollecito could not have accidentally pricked her hand whilst cooking.
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It’s highly telling that Sollecito wasn’t surprised that the forensic police had found Meredith’s DNA on the double DNA knife in his apartment. He knew Meredith’s DNA was on the blade, which is why he made up the silly cock and bull story. He was attempting to explain the presence of Meredith’s DNA on the blade, but in doing so, he further incriminated himself and Amanda Knox.
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Manuela Comodi, the deputy prosecutor, explained during the hearings that the prosecution had not called either Knox or Sollecito as witnesses “because there is no point. Every time they were questioned during the pre-trial investigation they lied or tried to derail the inquiry.”
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Judge Paolo Micheli, who presided over Rudy Guede fast-track trial and sent Knox and Sollecito to trial, didn’t believe many of their claims. He noted that they had given triple alibis and had lied in attempt to cover for each other.
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Sollecito’s lawyers claim that he lied out of confusion and fear. However, Sollecito lied from the very first time he spoke to the police when he wasn’t a suspect. His lies cannot be attributed to confusion and fear.
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Like Amanda, he has boxed himself in.Comment -
Really, how stupid were they?
The bf was a comp sci major... and he didn't realize they could examine his computer and verify his lies? What is he a moron?
And to stage a break-in thru a window in which it would be impossible to scale.. and then to do the rummaging in that same room AFTER you break the window?
And how hard is it to make an alibi of... well, we were both at RS's place. Watched an OLD movie, smoked out, went to sleep, that's it. How hard an alibi is that? Yet they couldn't even do that.
And what is the likelihood of being sitting out front of your house with a bucket and a mop... on the same very morning your roommate will be found dead and that same crime scene has been cleaned....
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The only thing that keeps me interested in this case is Amanda's performance in court... she is simply AMAZING. The best performance I have seen ... EVER!!!
Going to go back and watch those videos.Comment -
Her performance couldnt have been that good.Comment -
I respectfully disagree, nobs.
The only reason she was convicted was b/c of her lies and the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence. If you go by her performance in court, you would never in a million years feel she's guilty. In fact, even tho she's a cold-blooded killer, she managed to garner the sympathy of many people in the court room... smiles, handshakes, friendly salutations. It wasn't your ordinary affair.
But what makes it even more amazing is that she has that presence, that act in court AFTER having nearly pulled off such a vicious crime. Her heart is as black as the darkest night.
The performance of the century.Comment -
Ted Bundy put on quite a show in court too. AK is a narcissistic sociopath.Comment -
A truly bizarre story. No coverage of it here in Canada.Comment -
That whores GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!Comment -
I have never seen court testimony of Bundy. I'll have to look that up. I don't know if there'd be anything available, but it'd be interesting.
Judge Micheli explains that blood evidence proves that Meredith was wearing her bra when she was killed. Nor is it just the blood on her bra which demonstrates this. It’s also where the blood isn’t on her body. He says that Meredith was wearing her bra normally when she laid in the position in which she died, and she was still wearing it for quite some time after she was dead. Her bra strap marks and the position of her shoulder are imprinted in the pool of blood in that position. Meredith’s shoulder also shows the signs that she lay in that position for quite some time.
He asks the question: Who came back, cut off Meredith’s bra and moved her body some time later? It wasn’t Rudy Guede. He went home, cleaned himself up and went out on the town with his friends. Judge Micheli reasons in his report that it could only have been done by someone who knew about Meredith’s death and had an interest in arranging the scene in Meredith’s room. Seemingly who else but Amanda Knox?
She was apparently the only person in Perugia that night who could gain entry to the cottage. And the clasp which was cut with a knife when Meredith’s bra was removed was found on November 2nd when Meredith’s body was moved by the investigators. It was right under the pillow which was placed under Meredith when she was moved by someone from the position in which she died. On that clasp and its inch of fabric is the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox. Micheli reasons in his report that Raffaele and Amanda seemed to have returned to the cottage some time after Meredith was dead, cut off her bra, moved her body, and staged the scene in Meredith’s room."
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Dr Coline Covington is a highly experienced psychotherapist who has studied at Princeton University, Cambridge University and the London School of Economics. She was the former Editor of the Journal of Analytical Psychology as well as the former Chair of the British Psychoanalytic Council. She has also worked for the Metropolitan Police.
Dr Covington has written an intelligent and brave piece on Amanda Knox in the First Post. Click the picture above for the link. In the article she describes Amanda’s behaviour in court:“Knox’s narcissistic pleasure at catching the eye of the media and her apparent nonchalant attitude during most of the proceedings show the signs of a psychopathic personality. Her behaviour is hauntingly reminiscent of Eichmann’s arrogance during his trial for war crimes in Jerusalem in 1961 and most recently of Karadzic’s preening before the International Criminal Court at the Hague.
The psychopath is someone who has no concern or empathy for others, no awareness of right and wrong, and who takes extreme pleasure in having power over others. The psychopath has no moral conscience and therefore does not experience guilt or remorse.
Most psychopaths are highly skilled at fooling those around them that they are normal by imitating the emotions that are expected of them in different circumstances. They are consummate at charming people and convincing them they are in the right. It is only when they reveal a discrepancy in their emotional response that they let slip that something may be wrong with them.
The psychopath is the conman, or in the case of Amanda Knox, the con-woman par excellence. Her nickname ‘Foxy Knoxy’, given to her as a young girl for her skills at football, takes on a new meaning.
Whether or not Knox, who is appealing her verdict, is ultimately found guilty, her chilling performance remains an indictment against her. Her family’s disbelief in the outcome of the trial can only be double-edged”
This is not the first time a suggestion has been made that Amanda has displayed behaviour which is often associated with psychopathy. It is a view that I have also supported in the past.
Professor David Wilson
Professor David Wilson is one of Britain’s leading criminologists and is the author of ‘A History of British Serial Killing, 1888-2008’. He writes for the Guardian and is a regular feature on the BBC. He is also Professor of Criminology at the Centre for Criminal Justice Policy and Research at the University of Central England.
Professor Wilson expressed the following comments in an editorial in the Express on Monday:“This is a woman clearly involved with an older, more experienced boyfriend who introduced her to a lifestyle that allowed her to bend the rules of morality that had guided her in the US,” he says.
“She was rather like a gap-year Rose West. I believe she was naive and got caught up in a very different world, which she embraced enthusiastically.”
So can he pinpoint the real woman behind the masks? He insists she should be judged on evidence alone.
“In truth she’s neither angel nor she-devil but a complex human being who sits somewhere in between. I do believe, though, that we are going to hear a lot more from Amanda Knox.”
Professor David Canter
Professor David Canter is an internationally renowned applied social researcher and world-leading crime psychologist, but is perhaps most widely known as one of the pioneers of ‘Offender Profiling’ being the first to introduce its use to the UK.
In comments made in The Times, he stated:“Most bizarre murders, particularly those with a lot of sexual activity and if there are drugs involved, come out of a lifestyle that’s pretty dysfunctional in which there’s some build-up. So it’s unusual for apparently capable and functioning youngsters to get caught up in all this.”
This particular quote is already being used by a number of journalists and bloggers in support of Amanda’s innocence. I think it’s important to understand Professor Canter’s actual comment before making assumptions about what his particular opinions about the conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are.
Professor Canter is diplomatically stating that Amanda’s profile in a young killer is unusual, which nobody can deny, he is not saying that Amanda Knox couldn’t have committed this crime simply because she doesn’t fit the typical profile.
Indeed a comment made by forensic psychiatrist Dr Michael Welner on this blog a few months ago illustrates the point perfectly:“All of my academic background and experience in this area of tragedy reinforces my impression that anyone is capable of anything, so long as they have the physical wherewithal. So many times have I seen cases that “never happened before.” And then I saw them happen.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself.Comment -
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true” DemosthenesComment -
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
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Originally posted by MilfDriller
I thought you thought she was innocentComment -
i still think she's innocent. even if she is psycho, raffe isn't. why would he continue to lie for her?
i have a hard time with the evidence also. all the evidence against them (e.g. bra clasp, bloody footprint, eye witness seeing them run away) was mysteriously not found on the initial investigation, only weeks and months later after they revisited the crime scene.
how did meredith get so drunk in 2.5-3 hours before she was murdered? she had enough alcohol in her blood, that she would've had to drink 9 shots of liquor. that's not something people tend to do by themselves.
there's lot of scenarios of what could have happen involving amanda that night and in a maryjane-induced paranoia state, could have given her reasons to act sketchy and abnormal.Comment -
I'm not sure if she's guilty or innocent, but I do think the Italian legal system had it in for her either way. If they somehow managed ot prove she was out of the country at the time, the courts would have still found her guilty. She was doomed.Comment -
This is a good thread to read concerning the circumstantial evidence. It also has a few posters who arrive to the case w/ the impression/feeling that Amanda is innocent (much in the same manner I did) but then change their minds.
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"Over the course of six crime scene inspections, 228 pieces of evidence and 460 traces of genetic material were found. Stefanoni, who sat on the witness stand for 10 hours, presented slides and graphs describing the complicated science behind DNA analysis and defending her team's protocol.
Friday's key evidence focused on mixed genetic traces of Knox and Kercher found throughout the house. That's something, Knox's defense lawyers said, that was normal given that they lived together.
But mixed blood samples were found as well. Specifically, mixed blood of Knox and Kercher was found on the drain of the bidet, on a box of Q-tips sitting on the sink and the sink ledge.
A drop of Knox's blood was identified on the sink faucet. Kercher's blood was also found on the toilet lid and the bathroom light switch, on the part that would have been touched to turn on the lights. Elsewhere in the house, luminol-enhanced footprints were analyzed and found to be mixed genetic material of Knox and Kercher.
Tests on a spot of luminol-enhanced blood in roommate Filomena Romanelli's room (where the window had been broken with a large rock) revealed mixed DNA of Kercher and Knox."Comment -
I must point out that on the above-mentioned site there is a poster who comes off quite like an arrogant prick who posts at this site and who believes that his shit is of solid gold. Pay no mind to that posters manner.Comment -
The Afr guy went thru his appeal. Apparently his sentence was reduced to 24.5 years... and there may be a possibility of early release in 16 years.
I can't speak to the accuracy of that information, but if he is released in just 16 years... shit, he'll still be a young man. Roughly 38 to 40 years old.
That is not justice.Comment
