Carrying Cash in the airport

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  • tltaylor89
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 06-19-09
    • 19610

    #1
    Carrying Cash in the airport
    Its about time somebody sued the TSA for detaining people for having a stack of money under 10 A Constitutional Case in a Box of Cash
    Published: Tuesday, 17 Nov 2009 | 12:58 PM ET Text Size
    By: Joe Sharkey
    The New York Times
    Steve Bierfeldt had a little tin box, packed in plain view in his carry-on bag, when he went through airport security in St. Louis last March. He often carried the little box, he later told me. But this time, the box would become a big deal.

    Security screeners had a problem, not with the box but with the cash inside it, about $4,700. They demanded he explain where he got it. Trouble ensued when he politely declined to do so. He thought he was within his rights, he told me.

    “Am I being detained?” he asked after the regular checkpoint security search had been completed.


    Stephen Bierfeldt

    Yes, he was being detained.

    Transportation Security Administration officers escorted Mr. Bierfeldt to a nearby interview room, where he was interrogated for more than 20 minutes by screeners and then by the police officers who were soon summoned.

    “What do you do for a living?” a T.S.A. officer named Ron Bardmass asked Mr. Bierfeldt.

    “Am I legally required to tell you that?” asked Mr. Bierfeldt, who lives in Virginia and was flying home.

    And then, according to a transcript of the encounter that was later released as part of a lawsuit, Mr. Bardmass persisted, “You may not be legally required to tell me that, but you will be legally required to tell it to the police officer who comes to talk to you.” He added, “I’m just trying to ask some questions to figure out what this is about so I can get you on your plane.” But, he went on, using an expletive, Mr. Bierfeldt seemed to want to play games “and I’m not going to play.”


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    Mr. Bardmass later said in court papers that Mr. Bierfeldt’s “evasive behavior” led him to call the airport police to help sort out “possible evidence of criminal activity.”

    Unfortunately for the interrogators, Mr. Bierfeldt was carrying an audio recorder. “As I was being led into the room, I thought, ‘This is going to be a bigger deal than I thought,’ so I took out my iPhone in plain sight, played a little with it, pushed record and put it back in my pocket,” Mr. Bierfeldt said.

    The transcript of Mr. Bierfeldt’s recording shows that the officers, evidently unaware that Mr. Bierfeldt was recording the session, threatened Mr. Bierfeldt with federal arrest for declining to account for the cash. Mr. Bierfeldt kept asking politely whether he was legally required to answer. This intransigence irritated the officers.

    It is not illegal, by the way, to carry a large amount of cash while traveling. (The law does require cash amounts over $10,000 to be declared on international trips.) And as the American Civil Liberties Union argued in a lawsuit filed in June against the T.S.A. in the Bierfeldt case, screeners exceeded their authority in detaining him and demanding explanations once Mr. Bierfeldt had cleared standard checkpoint security inspection.

    Last week, the A.C.L.U. said it dropped its suit after the T.S.A. clarified its policies in late September. The agency told screeners that, while they were encouraged to refer any suspected criminal activity or illegal contraband discovered in a checkpoint search to law enforcement officials, their job was to screen for weapons and verify passenger identities. “Traveling with large amounts of currency is not illegal,” the T.S.A. added in an internal directive on Oct. 29.


    MORE FROM NYTIMES.COM
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    Mr. Bierfeldt, it turns out, was carrying the money because he was returning home from a regional conference of Campaign for Liberty, a group that supports Ron Paul, the former presidential candidate. Mr. Bierfeldt, the group‘s development director, said he often traveled from political events with donations and money from the sale of T-shirts and bumper stickers.

    The T.S.A. said it was “pleased with the outcome of this lawsuit.” In an e-mail message, Sterling Payne, an agency spokeswoman, said that “currency alone is not a threat.” She added that the agency “will continue to work closely” with local, state and federal law enforcement officials to refer “potential evidence of criminal wrongdoing.”

    Ben Wizner, an A.C.L.U. lawyer for national security issues, said the organization did not object to aggressive security enforcement by screeners. The crucial issue, he said, is the threat to Fourth Amendment guarantees against unreasonable searches by screeners who overstep their limited authority.

    “This is important because the encounter Americans have with T.S.A. screeners is the most common Fourth Amendment event in American life,” he said.

    This story originally appeared in the The New York Times
  • poker_dummy101
    Restricted User
    • 11-03-08
    • 6395

    #2
    guy was just tryin to make a name for himself.. unreal
    Comment
    • tltaylor89
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 06-19-09
      • 19610

      #3
      lol 10k rule they were harrasing this man for under half that
      Comment
      • poker_dummy101
        Restricted User
        • 11-03-08
        • 6395

        #4
        all the guy had to do was say why he had it.. wouldve taken 20 seconds.. but no he wanted all this bs attention so everyone could make a big deal about it
        Comment
        • tltaylor89
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 06-19-09
          • 19610

          #5
          lol he got a large cash settlement
          Comment
          • LVHerbie
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 09-15-05
            • 6344

            #6
            Originally posted by poker_dummy101
            guy was just tryin to make a name for himself.. unreal
            The guy was standing up for his rights against arrogant rent-a-cops on a power trip and invading his privacy... unreal...
            Comment
            • tullamore
              SBR MVP
              • 07-17-07
              • 3586

              #7
              I carried 9k once in a fanny pack under my shirt.

              There was no way I was taking that fanny pack off, and losing it from my sight.
              Comment
              • poker_dummy101
                Restricted User
                • 11-03-08
                • 6395

                #8
                the guy knew a quick way to make money and take advantage of the system
                Comment
                • LVHerbie
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 09-15-05
                  • 6344

                  #9
                  Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                  all the guy had to do was say why he had it.. wouldve taken 20 seconds.. but no he wanted all this bs attention so everyone could make a big deal about it
                  Or the airport rent-a-cops could learn their jobs and know that you can carry less then 10k of cash on you and don't have to declare it... The guy did the right thing IMO and him getting a settlement after unnecessarily being harassed sounds more then fair...
                  Comment
                  • urge2kill
                    SBR MVP
                    • 10-27-09
                    • 1722

                    #10
                    The TSA is a joke.
                    Comment
                    • tltaylor89
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 06-19-09
                      • 19610

                      #11
                      If you were in that postion poker you would ride the TSAs ass all the way to the bank.(I know I would)
                      Comment
                      • pavyracer
                        SBR Aristocracy
                        • 04-12-07
                        • 82900

                        #12
                        Actually if he was flying a domestic flight he can carry as much as he wants. $10,000 rule only applies to inbound international flights and not outbound.
                        Comment
                        • Doug
                          SBR Hall of Famer
                          • 08-10-05
                          • 6324

                          #13
                          Originally posted by LVHerbie
                          Or the airport rent-a-cops could learn their jobs and know that you can carry less then 10k of cash on you and don't have to declare it... The guy did the right thing IMO and him getting a settlement after unnecessarily being harassed sounds more then fair...
                          agree !

                          5k ain't exactly big money, might get you 40% of a new Hyundai.
                          Comment
                          • wtf
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 08-22-08
                            • 12983

                            #14
                            ten k rule ONLY applies if you leave the country

                            they must be very aggressive now, about four years ago i had about 50k on me they saw it and just let me through on a domestic flight
                            Comment
                            • LVHerbie
                              SBR Hall of Famer
                              • 09-15-05
                              • 6344

                              #15
                              Originally posted by tullamore
                              I carried 9k once in a fanny pack under my shirt.

                              There was no way I was taking that fanny pack off, and losing it from my sight.
                              Wouldn't it be noticable? The few times I've carried significant cash on planes (always less then 10 dimes) I just split it up between my empty front pockets and rubber-banded it... You can carry under the limit and don't have to worry about pulling any money out and creating issues at screening...
                              Comment
                              • poker_dummy101
                                Restricted User
                                • 11-03-08
                                • 6395

                                #16
                                1. Steve Bierfeldt had a little tin box
                                2. He often carried the little box
                                3. Mr. Bierfeldt was carrying an audio recorder.
                                4. Mr. Bierfeldt, it turns out, was carrying the money because he was returning home from a regional conference of Campaign for Liberty, a group that supports Ron Paul

                                The guy was waiting for someone to take advantage
                                Comment
                                • poker_dummy101
                                  Restricted User
                                  • 11-03-08
                                  • 6395

                                  #17
                                  I am not saying to give up all your rights. Anybody could easily carry cash with them though and never be suspected of it. This guy went above and beyond his way to find something.
                                  Comment
                                  • GELATINOUS CUBE
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 08-09-09
                                    • 4534

                                    #18
                                    The guy wasn't trying to make a name for himself. He didn't feel like telling the airport pigs his personal business.

                                    The border pigs are the worst. Formerly US Protect and now Paragon. They've grabbed me, called me a piece of shit, pulled out their guns on me, sat me in the room for minutes, etc.

                                    Of course, I bring a lot of cash up from Mex. But hey, I'm just reclaiming US Currency, what's wrong with that.

                                    Fed Law; No, you don't need to claim any amount at airports, state lines, ports, etc.
                                    Yes, you need to declare over $7,000 cash brough in from Mex, Canada, or abroad. But you can just tell them, it's your money, you earned it legally, and are in lawful possession of it, and you can bring in $10K, $30K, even $100K. But be ready for a long day.
                                    blog '09-'10: 37-16: +$31,900
                                    mlb 2010; 16-12: +$4,540
                                    gellyhoops 2010: 10-6 +$3,150
                                    overall: 63-34 +$40,290
                                    Comment
                                    • pavyracer
                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                      • 04-12-07
                                      • 82900

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by wtf
                                      ten k rule ONLY applies if you leave the country

                                      they must be very aggressive now, about four years ago i had about 50k on me they saw it and just let me through on a domestic flight
                                      Actually is the other way. It's only when you try to enter the country.
                                      Comment
                                      • poker_dummy101
                                        Restricted User
                                        • 11-03-08
                                        • 6395

                                        #20
                                        And if this went to court, obviously I would have to side with the guy..but in my opinion I think what he did was shady
                                        Comment
                                        • LVHerbie
                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                          • 09-15-05
                                          • 6344

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by wtf
                                          ten k rule ONLY applies if you leave the country

                                          they must be very aggressive now, about four years ago i had about 50k on me they saw it and just let me through on a domestic flight
                                          I believe this is the actual law but I also read on twoplustwo that some guy getting stopped in the airport flying domestically for carrying cash and having it taken from him (along with an expensive watch)... I believe they accused him of it being drug money or some bs like that... Not sure how that ended up coming out...

                                          In our 9/11 No Rights Patriot Act America I personally would be leery of bringing anything over 10k on me on a plane without declaring it... According to this story even this might be too much...
                                          Comment
                                          • Indecent
                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                            • 09-08-09
                                            • 758

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                                            1. Steve Bierfeldt had a little tin box
                                            2. He often carried the little box
                                            3. Mr. Bierfeldt was carrying an audio recorder.
                                            4. Mr. Bierfeldt, it turns out, was carrying the money because he was returning home from a regional conference of Campaign for Liberty, a group that supports Ron Paul

                                            The guy was waiting for someone to take advantage
                                            You read minds so well, what am I thinking right now?
                                            Comment
                                            • Sam Odom
                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                              • 10-30-05
                                              • 58063

                                              #23
                                              No need to carry cash.

                                              However , I understand the WTF -- but that is the way it is in today's world
                                              Comment
                                              • Preston09
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 05-19-09
                                                • 1834

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by tullamore
                                                I carried 9k once in a fanny pack under my shirt.

                                                There was no way I was taking that fanny pack off, and losing it from my sight.
                                                Lol, you have a fanny pack?
                                                Comment
                                                • poker_dummy101
                                                  Restricted User
                                                  • 11-03-08
                                                  • 6395

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Indecent
                                                  You read minds so well, what am I thinking right now?
                                                  You are too dumb to be thinking
                                                  Comment
                                                  • GELATINOUS CUBE
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 08-09-09
                                                    • 4534

                                                    #26
                                                    The Patriot Act allows NSA to download and read all our phone conversations and internet/computer activity, but it doesn't allow for search of mandatory declaration on any amount of cash within the U.S.

                                                    Homie works in U.S. Customs. Cash over $7,000 must be declared upon ENTERING the US, not $10,000 and not when leaving. Maybe it is 10K, but they demand anything over 7k to be declared. So bring in 5k at a time.
                                                    blog '09-'10: 37-16: +$31,900
                                                    mlb 2010; 16-12: +$4,540
                                                    gellyhoops 2010: 10-6 +$3,150
                                                    overall: 63-34 +$40,290
                                                    Comment
                                                    • topgame85
                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                      • 03-30-08
                                                      • 12325

                                                      #27
                                                      This is BS and they should be forced to pay A LOT for this harrassment and threats, bankrup those fcks and then fly around the US with a briefcase with 500k in it, agreed carrying cash not a good idea or neccesary but it is his right, I personally would transfer the money to prepaid cards like ******** and ******** etc
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Indecent
                                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                                        • 09-08-09
                                                        • 758

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                                                        You are too dumb to be thinking
                                                        Wrong, I was thinking you could haven't possibly picked a better name. But thanks for missing the point.

                                                        Hows this? I'll bet you any amount of money you can't prove what you are saying. Yet you state it with so much conviction you have to be correct, right?

                                                        You have no basis for stating this as fact, yet you do... Why?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • poker_dummy101
                                                          Restricted User
                                                          • 11-03-08
                                                          • 6395

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Indecent
                                                          Wrong, I was thinking you could haven't possibly picked a better name. But thanks for missing the point.

                                                          Hows this? I'll bet you any amount of money you can't prove what you are saying. Yet you state it with so much conviction you have to be correct, right?

                                                          You have no basis for stating this as fact, yet you do... Why?
                                                          Probably because I have a brain that processes information and can form realistic conclusions based on the facts given. I do not need beyond a reasonable doubt.

                                                          I already said I would've paid the guy in court.. but you cannot tell me:

                                                          1. Carrying a tin box ALONG WITH his carry on is not suspicious and TRYING to draw attention to himself
                                                          2. He just so happened to think to turn on his voice recorder before this began

                                                          Oh.. lets not forget what type of event he was coming from.

                                                          Guy should've gotten paid like I already said, but I believe he premeditated it all hoping this would happen somewhere and he knew exactly what to do so he could get some cash.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • LVHerbie
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 09-15-05
                                                            • 6344

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                                                            1. Steve Bierfeldt had a little tin box
                                                            2. He often carried the little box
                                                            3. Mr. Bierfeldt was carrying an audio recorder.
                                                            4. Mr. Bierfeldt, it turns out, was carrying the money because he was returning home from a regional conference of Campaign for Liberty, a group that supports Ron Paul

                                                            The guy was waiting for someone to take advantage
                                                            I don't see anything weird about 1 or 2 although, like I said, I would have the money in my pocket so I didn't leave a bag laying around somewhere and didn't have to take it out... On 3 it said he used his iphone which has a app that anyone would have who has an iphone and smart enough to click it on when he was being detained... Not like the guy was wired or mic up to record it the shit... 4 just shows that he (probably) knows his rights and actually cares about elimination of privacy that has and taken place as we continue to give up more liberty in exchange for government promised security... Not sure how any of the above shows that he was trying to take advantage of a situation... All I see is a guy who doesn't think he should have to discuss with people who are getting paid 12 bucks an hour to keep bombs and weapons off planes why is has a couple dimes of money on him...

                                                            They were in the wrong and if, after he told them it wasn't any their business what the money was for, they detained him and harassed him he deserves a settlement.. Maybe next time these guys will be a little better trained and, hopefully, more focused on their real job of making sure airports are safe from real threats...
                                                            Comment
                                                            • urge2kill
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 10-27-09
                                                              • 1722

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by poker_dummy101
                                                              3. Mr. Bierfeldt was carrying an audio recorder.
                                                              It was an iphone.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • tltaylor89
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 06-19-09
                                                                • 19610

                                                                #32
                                                                The audio recorder was an Iphone
                                                                Comment
                                                                • poker_dummy101
                                                                  Restricted User
                                                                  • 11-03-08
                                                                  • 6395

                                                                  #33


                                                                  This is like someone mopping a floor in a store. The person watches them do it (is an advocate for only sweeping floors not mopping) and then walks down the wet aisle to fall. Sure give him the settlement because there wasn't a sign but the guy knew what he was doing.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • poker_dummy101
                                                                    Restricted User
                                                                    • 11-03-08
                                                                    • 6395

                                                                    #34
                                                                    no its not suspicious at all you have a carry on.. but you also carry a tin box instead of just putting it in your bag..give me a fukkin break


                                                                    .. if the majority of people got detained by police they would be thinking i did nothing wrong, i want out of this situation, and its no big deal.... not, let me grap my IPHONE to turn on the voice recorder
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • tltaylor89
                                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                                      • 06-19-09
                                                                      • 19610

                                                                      #35
                                                                      I would so I could get some free cash to gamble with
                                                                      Comment
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