Help with Canbet not paying 6K

tacomax · 04-14-07, 09:00 PM

Did you sign up using an Israeli address and they still auto-credited you with the bonus?

Hanale9 · 04-14-07, 09:03 PM

Yes, I register with my Israeli address and they accepted my registration and credit with me the bonus as instructed in their website, a coupon was advertised in the website and again at the promotion terms, I did not see anything mentioned about Israeli players.

This excuse came after they even ask for documentation as a proof of my identity and address and I sent them all they asked for

Dear H,

You may re-submit your withdrawal request upon sending us a fax / email
detailing the following:

1. Proof of ownership for the cards used on your account. This should be a
copy of the front and back of the card.

2. Photographic Identification. This should be a copy of either your Drivers
License or Passport.

If you have access to a scanner, you can scan and email the images to us.
This is our preferred method, as the images are readable the first time. If
you don't have a scanner, you can fax them to us on:

+61 3 9948 9885 - International
+44 208 996 5612 - UK
1 888 364 2610-USA

Please note that all the documents provided must be clear. It may help to
photocopy the image on the lightest setting.

Please refer to the Withdrawal Information section in the Members Area of
our site for the required bank details. Your request will be processed at
the first opportunity during normal business hours in England.

Kind Regards

Sarah
Canbet Customer Services Team
Canbet Sports Bookmakers UK Limited

tacomax · 04-14-07, 09:27 PM

If that's right, then that's wrong.

If they want to prevent Israeli people from claiming bonuses then that's their prerogative and they can do whatever they want with their business. But if they lack the basic skills to automatically prevent people from Israel from collecting bonuses (which is not very hard to do) and have to rely on something is in their T&Cs then that's poor form to say the least.

Send all details of this to assistance@SportsbookReview.com to try and see if SBR can assist you in this.

Hanale9 · 04-14-07, 10:04 PM

Thank you for the information tacomax.

I sent the email. I will update with any result.

Dark Horse · 04-14-07, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by Hanale9

Dear H,
I have contacted our fraud manager regarding the $5,900 that has been removed from your casino account and recieved the explanation that condition 16 of the Canbet terms and conditions prohibits Israeli clients from using our bonuses without prior consent due to the high levels of bonus abuse we recieve from your country, and that as this money was won with bonus funds it has been removed from your account accordingly.
If you wish, you can contact our risk manager directly at risk@canbet.com

The way I read it they had to make a special rule to avoid bonus abuse by Israelis. If that's in the rules, how did you get screwed?

Santo · 04-14-07, 10:43 PM

If it was a Casino case, I'd suggest you refer it to Casinomeister. SBR may be able to help, but CM will have more expertise in dealing with casinos.

Just a moment...

http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php

Dark Horse · 04-14-07, 10:53 PM

Because of my experience with Canbet as a first class book with a very high integrity, I may not be entirely neutral. That said, if Israelis, generally very well informed about financial matters, have earned that reputation in the bookmaker world, surely they would be aware of that. I have a hard time believing this guy would have been taken by surprise by this. It's comparable (not the same!) to Americans claiming they didn't know they weren't welcome at a book.

On the other hand, I've never understood how books could determine what winnings were won with bonus money. This seems to be very arbitrary. I feel that winnings won with bonus money should be in exact proportion to the initial deposit and bonus. So if 1000 deposit and 200 bonus, then 20% of winnings were from bonus money.

Hanale9 · 04-14-07, 11:22 PM

I checked the terms and condition of the bonus and don't remember Israel was mentioned as a prohibited country. Even now after they added the term Israelis are not prohibited but have to negotiate prior to playing.

I think they will still let u register and claim the bonus without any warning email... or any other thing to prevent cases like that.

Moreover, I came to play after an Israeli player recommended them, I heard about Canbet from a friend.

My friend was paid without any problem.

They added that term AFTER I played. Because I have no proof, you have to trust me on that. I trusted Canbet and by no means abused their bonus.

I played at few other casinos and had no problem to get paid. None of them used such a tactic.

To say I knew I might not get paid is totally not the case.

I was 100% sure I am going to get paid with or without a bonus. I didn't play for the bonus or trying to take advantage of the bonus.

I played risky , risking my funds and that is why I reached a large balance from a small deposit

tacomax · 04-14-07, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

That said, if Israelis, generally very well informed about financial matters, have earned that reputation in the bookmaker world, surely they would be aware of that. I have a hard time believing this guy would have been taken by surprise by this.

Just take the scenario that the guy didn't know that point 58 subsection i) 3) a) forbid Israeli bettors. Heck, I don't pay attention to most of the T&Cs on any sites I sign up with. The fact is that if they want to restrict bonuses from people in Israel then they should implement that in their software rather than expect players to read through x pages of garbage.

Originally posted by Dark Horse

It's comparable (not the same!) to Americans claiming they didn't know they weren't welcome at a book.

I see your point there, but that is assuming that the American bettor reads the forums and knows for a fact that American bettors aren't welcome at a lot of books. Most bettors aren't aware of betting forums.

And incidentally, I think that Canbet is a very good sportsbook.

Dark Horse · 04-14-07, 11:35 PM

Looks like their position is that if it's in the rules you're playing at your own risk. It certainly seems disproportionate to withhold 6K on a deposit of only 300. How much was the bonus?

Dark Horse · 04-14-07, 11:38 PM

I hear you, Taco.

But it looks like our new friend is very well aware of the forums.

LT Profits · 04-14-07, 11:43 PM

I think the whole key here is, as this guy claims,"They added that term AFTER I played." If that is indeed the case, and he didn't break any other rules (which I don't think he did), then he should get paid, PERIOD.

However, if that term was already on the website BEFORE he registered, then Canbet has a case.

Dark Horse · 04-14-07, 11:48 PM

Exactly, LT. I gave that one to Canbet. To me this isn't a book that makes up rules after the fact. But I've been wrong before.

In any case, it's up to SBR and Canbet to come up with the best solution. Whatever that may be, it will be instructive to read. Tough one.

Hanale9 · 04-15-07, 12:07 AM

I am aware of online forums. I found some great casinos and got paid with no problems at online forums.

I do aware of terms and condition of bonuses, and I checked the terms before I play.

I registered there at February, when I register I don't remember any rule mentioning Israel. I have no proof, it is the casino word against my word.

Even if it was there, why do they let me redeem the coupon ?

Why do they send an email after you cashout asking for documents ?

They mentioned in the email rule 16 while now it is rule 17 at the webiste. Websites upgrade their terms, sometimes they do it occasionally, maybe they changed it after I played but didn't check deep and just follow their new terms, who knows ? innocent they are not.

These kind of behaviour is misleading and dishonest.

U don't put an obstacle, a tarp, and wait for people to make a mistake like that.

I did check the terms and played by the rules.

Santo · 04-15-07, 12:11 AM

Well it's easy to check.. let's see..

Rules are here: http://www.canbet.com/casino/promotions.aspx

Same rule was there Sep 20, 2006, just a different number:

Canbet.com - Canbet Casino Promotions

http://web.archive.org/web/20060920083046/http://www.canbet.com/casino/promotions.aspx

Ok so let's say they're right to forfeit the bonus, how much of your deposit was the bonus?

marc · 04-15-07, 12:17 AM

i just went thorugh canbets rules here is what i saw

"Players from the following countries are not eligible to receive Canbet bonuses:

China."

China is the only country listed. I see no mention of Israel. I think the player is right.

Hanale9 · 04-15-07, 12:19 AM

Something is wrong with this archive website.

Let me check into it.

Dark Horse · 04-15-07, 12:20 AM

You're a genius Santo.

So it was there all the time. And it's not one of those collections of legalities that nobody ever reads. Just a few rules.

(I'm seeing Israel too, Marc).

Hanale9 · 04-15-07, 12:25 AM

Santo is right, it was probably there and i missed it.

The deposit was 300, I am almost sure the bonus was 300 as well, I am 99% sure.

I reached $5900

Dark Horse · 04-15-07, 12:30 AM

You may still have a case in that 50% of the amount could be negotiated, since you could claim you made half with your own money (if the bonus was 100%).

jjgold · 04-15-07, 10:58 AM

another fraud 1st time poster claiming foul

Why do guys that post regularly ever have issues?

I bet a ghost poster

increasedodds · 04-15-07, 11:13 AM

Canbet does some screwy things. I know several people they pulled baloney rules on, but only over a few hundred dollars and the people just said screw it.

If they took an israeli address on the registration form and gave the guy the bonus, they owe the full amount.

Sean

slash · 04-15-07, 12:48 PM

agreed increasedodds. He should be paid in full. The only question is if he should have the $300 bonus too. They might have a case that they can take back his bonus, but they cannot steal his winnings.

Dark Horse · 04-15-07, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by increasedodds

If they took an israeli address on the registration form and gave the guy the bonus, they owe the full amount.

If it says in the rules that an Israeli address is only eligible for bonus after prior consent, that is pretty obvious, and clearly shifts the responsibility to ensure this condition is met to the client. Unlike what some suggest, Canbet does not have to police the clients to make sure they oblige with this rule at the time of initial deposit. Nor does it need to have the software in place to recognize an Israeli address. Those things would be nice, but are not required from Canbet.

This is casino bonus money, which here is 100%. So the bonus doubled his bankroll at the book. If this were me, I would remain friendly with Canbet, admit I made a mistake, and try to get half of my money because I won that half with my own money. The folks at Canbet are some of the most easy-going I've come around in this business, so I would be surprised if they wouldn't meet me halfway. To insist instead on getting the full amount minus the bonus has a high likelihood of both parties digging in their heels. In which case I may as well forget my money. My first priority is the keep the communication lines open and positive. And I can only do that if I recognize that Canbet does have a point. That in turn will increase my chances of them seeing my point. If you treat them like friends, they'll treat you like friends. If you treat them like enemies, guess what...

Hanale9 · 04-15-07, 04:19 PM

I was always nice to them, I can't even email them anymore.

They marked me as spam, it means everytime I send an email it comes back as spam.

A friend of mine who recommended them played way after Spetember 2006 and got paid in full.

I have the feeling they decided to take a ride on me because they probably need the money to pay US players after they got out of the US market.

They didn't apply this rule with my friend. I have proof that he got paid when this rule was there, according to the archive website. I can show that he got paid.

They paid him, probably because they knew what they did was not nice.

I looked at the terms and probably missed that one, everything went smoothly and I had no slim idea I might not get paid from any reason.

I understand it was my mistake, and after we got into this point, half of the amount is fine with me.

But, how can I even email them ? How can I let them know ?

They don't want to hear a word from me.

Santo · 04-15-07, 04:49 PM

Perhaps post it in the Casinomeister forum and see what opinions you get there. Someone there may be able to get in contact with them.

sportsfanatic · 04-16-07, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by increasedodds

Canbet does some screwy things. I know several people they pulled baloney rules on, but only over a few hundred dollars and the people just said screw it.

If they took an israeli address on the registration form and gave the guy the bonus, they owe the full amount.

Sean

I agree. None of this after the fact, at withdrawal time, read the fine print s**t, oops we made a mistake, no bonus for you, did you read the part about no Israel, blah blah blah...

Considering OP's not going to get his e-mails answered, chances of him getting paid ain't good.

Then again, I would never play at online casinos, bonus or no bonus. I also never take bonuses at all because of the rollover conditions and whatever other requirements sites may have if I accept the bonus. I say f*** it. Keep it simple. I withdraw when I want. Sites can't use any excuses.

wack · 04-16-07, 02:22 AM

My opinion.

I had an argument with canbet a while back. They voided a bet on me in a -120, -105 book, saying that it was a palp. At the time the -105 was not best price, but i chose to place the bet there.

It won but they had claimed the palpable error rule. It wasn't for a large sum of money compared to the wagers i often played with them at the time. My account was losing several thousand dollars there. They refused to pay (and i only found out about the palp after the event, not that they hadn't palped it before it started but they had neglected to inform me). I told them I would never play there again until they did the right thing.

To this day I still don't play there. To void a bet under such circumstances is not something I find acceptable.

The moral of the above is that, whilst many find them to be a good book, they are very pigheaded and stubborn when the feel they are right, and most likely won't budge an inch. Good luck but I am not hopeful.

Hanale9 · 04-20-07, 12:04 AM

No answer to date from assistance@sportsbookreview

Is their a way to PM the admin

I still believe what Canbet has done is not acceptible, they let me go all the way and then came with that term. A friend of mine got paid way after September 2006 and part of the reason I came to play is because he won and got paid.

slash · 04-20-07, 02:28 AM

Hanale, they are screwing you. You should go to casino message boards and warn others of using Canbet.

Hanale9 · 04-21-07, 01:39 AM

I thought Canbet is mainly a sportsbetting. I think more players will be warned here at the forums.

Today it is me tomorrow it is a Player that they got the bad mood and screwed him as well or maybe an affiliate who knows ?

I also warned players at winneronline.com

I will try casinomeister. I justed wanted to wait first for a reply from assistance, after all I just want to get paid and not to give Canbet the bad publicity.

Dark Horse · 04-21-07, 01:54 AM

Well, normally SBR is more than willing to help out. In this case they seem to ignore you. The question is why.

First you say Israel was never mentioned in the rules, and that it's your word against the book. Then we find out that Israel was included, so now you say you have a friend who got paid while Israel was mentioned in the rules.

Canbet doesn't want to deal with you, and so far SBR hasn't reached out to you. Is there something you're not saying? There has to be more to this story.

operaman · 04-21-07, 08:00 AM

Running the total up so high would be an indicator that he is familiar with the proper way to approach many of the exploitable casino bonuses out there.

It would also be a slight indicator that he has several accounts.

I wouldn't be suprised if this is the xth or so try for a big target number.

Just guessing here, but it seems the guy maybe should have known about the clause mentioning israel.

On the other side of the coin, isn't canbet taking a shot at the guy who did nothing against the terms of the site? Voiding all his winnings means, he didn't break any of the rules of the site ,but has been put into a no win situation. He breaks even or loses all his money.

Hanale9 · 04-23-07, 08:44 PM

There is a lot of scam going on online in both parts, gambling systems in one hand and player fraud on the other hand.

I understand your suspicion, but if I had known the term about Israel, why would I play there ?

If I was such a pro having many accounts, wouldn't I know the archive website and look there myself to see Israel was there ? Would not I take a screenshot of the terms as most pro is doing after they cashout from what I can see in forums ?

A pro will read the terms take screenshot obey them 100%.

I made a honest mistake, when I say a friend of mine got paid and he played during that time, then that's what happened.

I relied on my memeory and I never denied that it might have been wrong, but the story with the friend is 100% since I know he got paid.

I have only one account at Canbet, I got the signup bonus and played risky, no one came to take advantage of them

Canbet casino did not do the minimal effot to warn me.

They have a live chat. they could call, they could send an email... they could warn me in some point and remove the bonus

They just let me go all the way, requesting documents, get them and then telling me I am breaching their terms, They could avoid that.

Yes, I made a mistake, but is this a reason to void all winnings ?