Betfair dind't pay my won money!!! Sharapova first in green group.

**moses millsap** · 11-12-05, 04:41 PM

Wasnt't the Petrova/Sharapova match meaningless? There weren't even bonus points. The loser of Pierce/Momo was going to play Sharapova, meaning she was already first in her group. Sounds like you're trying to win on a technicality if she wasn't officially "announced".

**natrass** · 11-12-05, 05:00 PM

Call me cynical ... but I read the headline and thought "I bet this is a first time poster using the forum to blackmail a bookie again" (well, not literally, my thoughts probably werent so structured, but thats not important here). Sure enough ... you can usually tell by the aggressive derogative headline that their case is going to be a bit lightweight. As if shouting about it means no one will think whether there is another side to the story. I think Owned has called it right.

Sorry for the cynicism. What ever did happen to the motorbike betting mother by the way ... I keep asking and get no response. Did this poor lady get her money in the end? Bill? Illusion? Anyone? I have had trouble sleeping worrying about her. It was probably her pension money as well.

**Illusion** · 11-12-05, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by natrass

What ever did happen to the motorbike betting mother by the way ... I keep asking and get no response. Did this poor lady get her money in the end? Bill? Illusion? Anyone? I have had trouble sleeping worrying about her. It was probably her pension money as well.

I have no clue. I would like to know myself.

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 05:10 PM

Well, my friend you r right. However betfair is nob bookmaker office it is bet exchange... And at the same time I have placed my bet I could place it on Dementieva to be the winner of black group and now one would have canceld that bet, because everyone place bet on their own risk... The point is that if Sharapova would had beed disquolified, I woul loose my bet...

**natrass** · 11-12-05, 05:14 PM

Smasher, sorry because I was probably a bit harsh before because betfair is indeed an exchange so maybe they are not the ones to decide if the other guy was indeed reflecting the risk of Sharapova being disqualified. (I dont know the bet) What were the odds you got, out of interest.

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 05:27 PM

Sharapova to win the match was 1.3.. I have placed Sharapova to be the winner of the group 1.08. And after the match they have written that my bet was lost, and have credited my monney to someones account. If I play livebetting in some soccer match and the score is 1-0 I still can bet on score 0-0 on kf 1000.00 and they never cancel this bets.

**tacomax** · 11-12-05, 05:31 PM

Remember that Betfair is a manual system - the closing of lines is done by Betfair employees. Perhaps they just forgot to close the line on time - this tends to happen pretty often on the more obscure markets.

**tacomax** · 11-12-05, 05:33 PM

What is the actual story here. In the original post you stated that your bet was cancelled:

Originally posted by Smasher81

Betfair caceled my bet saying that the official result was anounced before I have placed it.

And in a later post, you say that the bet was graded as a loser:

Originally posted by Smasher81

I have placed Sharapova to be the winner of the group 1.08. And after the match they have written that my bet was lost, and have credited my monney to someones account.

Was it cancelled or was it graded a loser?

My spider-sense is starting to tingle here.

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 05:34 PM

Assume Sharapova was disquolified...

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 05:37 PM

First they have wrote that the bet was lost, but then they have returnd my placed money back to my account.

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 05:47 PM

I have placed a bet in betfair.com on Maria Sharapova to be the winner of green group. After the last match Sharapova vs Petrova I have logged in to my account and found out that my bet was counted as lost... After about an hour they have refuned the placed money and have said that the bet was canceld because the official result was given a day before - after the match Sharapova vs Devenpor. However the official result was given just after the last match in green group.

**tacomax** · 11-12-05, 06:16 PM

The Betfair rules for this market state "Who will win this tournament?". From what has been posted here, she had already won the green group before her final match. There are rules regarding retirements in matches, but these are specific to matches and not tournaments like this.

According to the rules they have disclosed, I think that Betfair are within their rights to grade your bet as they did however unfortunate it is to you personally.

**bigboydan** · 11-12-05, 06:25 PM

if you really feel you need some assistance, contact bill Assistance@SportsbookReview.com

**Max Levine** · 11-12-05, 07:03 PM

So somebody took your bet after Davenport's match despite the fact that Sharapova would be the winner whether she would have won or lost to Petrova.

I checked Betfair rules.

RESULTS (including participation/non-participation)

* Where relevant, podium positions will count as the official result regardless of any subsequent disqualification or amendment to the result. If there is no podium ceremony, outcomes will be determined in accordance with the official result of the relevant governing body known at the time of market settlement, regardless of any subsequent disqualification or amendment to the result. If no official result of an event is available, the result will be determined by Betfair with reference to the available evidence known at the time of market settlement.

The question, in this particular instance, is whether the official result comes after the last match or when it is mathematically assured. I guess Betfair point would be: a team/player at first position is declared the winner of the division when it is mathematically impossible for any other team/player to pass them. And that could be before the end of the season/tournament. You could try to debate the fact that it is only official after the last match because of potential disqualifications but I think your case would be difficult to win as this is only to win the division.

Good luck anyway.

Max

**natrass** · 11-12-05, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Max Levine

So somebody took your bet after Davenport's match despite the fact that Sharapova would be the winner whether she would have won or lost to Petrova.

I checked Betfair rules.

RESULTS (including participation/non-participation)

* Where relevant, podium positions will count as the official result regardless of any subsequent disqualification or amendment to the result. If there is no podium ceremony, outcomes will be determined in accordance with the official result of the relevant governing body known at the time of market settlement, regardless of any subsequent disqualification or amendment to the result. If no official result of an event is available, the result will be determined by Betfair with reference to the available evidence known at the time of market settlement.

The question, in this particular instance, is whether the official result comes after the last match or when it is mathematically assured. I guess Betfair point would be: a team/player at first position is declared the winner of the division when it is mathematically impossible for any other team/player to pass them. And that could be before the end of the season/tournament. You could try to debate the fact that it is only official after the last match because of potential disqualifications but I think your case would be difficult to win as this is only to win the division.

Good luck anyway.

Max

So, it would seem that far from betfair being out of order ... they have in fact moved quickly to rectify a (perhaps blatently obvious) error in possibly the fairest manner possible. They could have said, ah well, stiff the other player. If only half the books were so dilligent and fair to ALL their customers ...

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 08:07 PM

If Sharapova won the last match they would count me this stake as a winning... And no canceled bets for player who would had lost...

**freebie** · 11-12-05, 09:05 PM

Another motorbike scammer

**natrass** · 11-12-05, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Smasher81

If I play livebetting in some soccer match and the score is 1-0 I still can bet on score 0-0 on kf 1000.00 and they never cancel this bets.

What??? A match has the score of 1-0 and then you go and bet 1000kf on 0-0?

Forget betfair, can I be your bookie?

**tacomax** · 11-12-05, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Smasher81

If Sharapova won the last match they would count me this stake as a winning... And no canceled bets for player who would had lost...

You should contact Betfair initially and get a written response regarding your wager. If you're not happy with that then you can contact Bill to see what he can do.

Remember that Betfair is an exchange, not a bookmaker. They have nothing to gain financially from voiding your bet.

**kiwi** · 11-12-05, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

You should contact Betfair initially and get a written response regarding your wager. If you're not happy with that then you can contact Bill to see what he can do.

Remember that Betfair is an exchange, not a bookmaker. They have nothing to gain financially from voiding your bet.

That's not so clear - maybe they play theirselves...

**Smasher81** · 11-12-05, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

Remember that Betfair is an exchange, not a bookmaker. They have nothing to gain financially from voiding your bet.

They have nothin to gain I agree, but they payed the money to players who had placed on Devenport to be the winner of the group after the match... it was their error... Probably they don't have that monney on their accounts already, so betfair should had pay that money twice.

**aceking** · 11-13-05, 04:13 AM

you should get help from IBAS or other agency in England.

**LGBoots** · 11-13-05, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by natrass

What??? A match has the score of 1-0 and then you go and bet 1000kf on 0-0?

Forget betfair, can I be your bookie?

I think Smasher meant a 'lay' of 0-0 on the game.

Yes you can sometimes get odds of 1.01 on a lay of a 0-0 soccer game after the 1st goal has been scored.

Punters Trading on these matches sometimes offer it as they want to free up their cash for other trades rather then having to wait until the end of the game for Betfair to settle it.

Likewise you see it on the over/under 2.5 goal markets for the same reasons.

**noyb** · 11-13-05, 05:22 PM

i must say i think, if smasher tells his story correct, i find this to be a strange decision from betfair.
as a regular betfair-user i know first-hand, as already mentioned (live-betting being the perfect example), someones trades on this exchange are pretty much someones own responsibility. If you offer to lay 0-0 when the score is 1-0 (therefore the 0-0 being an impossibility) there's no one to stop you, and there's no one to stop someone matching your order. I've seen these bets being made against odds like 1.01 not just once (just think of the situation where someone thinks he is watching live sports on this tv, while it is actually 15 seconds delayed) and Betfair, as far as I know, never ever interferes in any way.

I can even remember a soccer-match some time ago, which was pretty much proven to be fixed (which was enough for almost every bookmaker to void all bets), where Betfair decided not to.
Betfair hardly ever voids, this situation does not offer one exception why their policy this time should be different (but problably they can back the decision up with their somewhat vague rules which can be used in every possible way in every possible situation), in which you there is really nothing you can do about it except feel sorry for yourself. I must admit I am curious about what would be the real reason that caused Betfair to void though.

**Smasher81** · 11-13-05, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by noyb

I must admit I am curious about what would be the real reason that caused Betfair to void though.

Here are the letters I have recieved from betfair:
"One or more of your bets, placed on the Green Group, Group Winner market has been voided by Betfair. Whilst these bets were all placed in good faith, in order to be fair to all users we have had to void them."

"Thank you for your email. I have spoken to our Market Operations
Department and this market was originally settled as Lindsay
Davenport in line with the information available at the time.
However, it turns out that there were several misunderstandings
across the official sites and M. Sharapova was actually the winner
and had been so since the conclusion of her game with Davenport the
previous day.

As per our Rules, we had to void bets that were matched after there
was an official result. We had the market re-instated and then voided
all bets from 06:26:20 UKT on 11/11/05 which was the time of
settlement on the Davenport v Sharapova match."

**Smasher81** · 11-13-05, 07:18 PM

And one more thing to be added: right after the match Sharapova - Petrova betfair payd everyone as Davenport was first in green group. This is important! And they gave my placed money as a refund just after few hours... I assume that betfair dosn't want to pay twise for one result.

**moses millsap** · 11-13-05, 07:57 PM

What's wrong with their explanation? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me and looks like they got the money back they gave out to Davenport backers too.

**Smasher81** · 11-13-05, 08:56 PM

Their explanation is that they dind't know the official result after the match Sharapova vs Devenport. That is because there was no official result after this match. The official result who was the winner of the group came only after the match Sharapova - Petrova...

**moses millsap** · 11-13-05, 08:59 PM

"M. Sharapova was actually the winner and had been so since the conclusion of her game with Davenport the previous day."

I don't know if it was "official" per se, but everything was already settled, so that seems pretty official to me. Give it up.

**Smasher81** · 11-13-05, 09:39 PM

/

**pags11** · 11-14-05, 01:53 AM

sounds bush league to me...

**Smasher81** · 11-20-05, 07:00 PM

The same situation in China....

After the match Coria vs Nalbandian I have laid against Federed to be first in his group, however he already was first... And betfair counted my lay as lost one but not void... The same situation but now I've lost my money... And this company has rating A+...

**JoshW** · 11-20-05, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by LGBoots

I think Smasher meant a 'lay' of 0-0 on the game.

Yes you can sometimes get odds of 1.01 on a lay of a 0-0 soccer game after the 1st goal has been scored.

Punters Trading on these matches sometimes offer it as they want to free up their cash for other trades rather then having to wait until the end of the game for Betfair to settle it.

Likewise you see it on the over/under 2.5 goal markets for the same reasons.

That is really intersting LGBoots, hadn't heard of that. But with commissions, isn't it costing players a lot to free up cash?

**Smasher81** · 11-20-05, 09:10 PM

After the match Coria vs Nalbandian I have laid against Federed to be first in his group, however he already was first... And betfair counted my lay as lost one but not void... The same situation but now I've lost my money... And this company has rating A+...