Sportsbook Checks Bouncing

[TLD]

I’ve deposited quite a few sportsbook checks in the last couple months as I’ve pulled the bulk of my money out of my offshore accounts.

I just received notification from my bank that three of those checks have already bounced. They say I’ll get further information in the mail along with copies of the checks themselves. All they can tell me now is the amounts of the checks (from which I can at least take educated guesses which books they were from) and that the notation in the computer for one is “account closed” and for another is “insufficient funds” (and apparently nothing noted for the third).

If they are the three I’ve been able to infer they probably are, then at least two and possibly all three are from the same processor. I’ve subsequently deposited two more checks from that processor, so presumably those will bounce as well.

I asked them if they could tell me which of my earlier check deposits had cleared and which were still being processed, and they said no. Customer service is only told about checks that bounced. In effect all they can say about any other check from the day you opened your account until the present is that it hasn’t bounced yet. (Which is insane. Obviously the bank knows if they’ve collected on a given check or not. But for whatever reason they have a policy of keeping that information secret from their customers.)

So now I have a sizable amount that’s bounced, some more I’m sure I’ll be notified shortly also bounced, and a much bigger amount that I can only take an educated guess is fine because of how much time has passed, but I don’t know for sure won’t bounce.

I spoke with both books that I think the checks are from. They both said they will of course make good on anything that bounced like that. I’ll have to wait until I get the checks or copies of the checks in the mail, then I have to mail it to them, and then they’ll reissue payment. They said they’d cover the cost of mailing the checks back to them and such. (I would certainly hope to also get reimbursed for the fees I’m being charged by my bank for depositing all these bad checks. I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to negotiate that.)

So best case scenario we’re talking about considerable delay and inconvenience.

As far as why they’re bouncing, the best I’ve been able to piece together so far is that the processors are shutting down and reopening accounts, moving from bank to bank to somehow stay under the radar. And my checks that are bouncing are the ones from the closed accounts. So it has nothing to do with the book not having the funds or not wanting to pay me, and for that matter it’s not even that the processor lacks the funds or is screwing me; it’s that the funds are in one of the processor’s other pockets instead by now.

Hopefully I’ll know more shortly. But it’s worth a reminder that even if your bank accepts a sportsbook check and releases the funds to you, it doesn’t mean they won’t retroactively take that money right back out of your account some time down the road. (There was no hold on any of my checks that have bounced so far.)

[marc]

which processor sent you a bounced check

[JDK192]

Happened to me only once. 2 years ago a check from WWTS for $8k bounced. WWTS accounting dept called me before the bank did though and told me it was going to bounce and reissued the check. They told me that their bank accounts get closed frequently without warning when the banks find out they are a gambling related company and all the checks they've sent that haven't cleared will bounce.

[increasedodds]

Betmill bounced a check to me years ago, (Changed banks) but sent me a new one and gave me $200 for the trouble...

Sean

[TLD]

I believe two and possibly all three were processed by SolidPay, Marc.

When I called one of the books, they said the processor had probably already shifted to another bank and closed the account my checks were drawn on. So when I send them confirmation, they’ll instruct the processor to write me a new check, or pay me some other way.

[Catsfan]

Happened to me only once. 2 years ago a check from WWTS for $8k bounced. WWTS accounting dept called me before the bank did though and told me it was going to bounce and reissued the check. They told me that their bank accounts get closed frequently without warning when the banks find out they are a gambling related company and all the checks they've sent that haven't cleared will bounce.

The same thing happened to me a few years ago with WWTS. They handled the situation in the same way. It seemed to be an honest mistake.

[marc]

I believe two and possibly all three were processed by SolidPay, Marc.

When I called one of the books, they said the processor had probably already shifted to another bank and closed the account my checks were drawn on. So when I send them confirmation, they’ll instruct the processor to write me a new check, or pay me some other way.

Thanks. That's good to know

[Catsfan]

How long does it usually take for one of these checks to clear?
Is there any way to find out when they do clear? I don't think you really want to be calling your bank and brining any unnecessary attention to them do you?

[TLD]

How long does it usually take for one of these checks to clear?
Is there any way to find out when they do clear? I don't think you really want to be calling your bank and brining any unnecessary attention to them do you?

That’s what was most bizarre to me. I spoke to someone at my branch, and then to three different people—including a supervisor—by phone, and they all said they do not ever tell a customer if a check has cleared. All they can ever say is either they were unable to collect on it, or they have not been informed of any problem with it yet. The holds they will sometimes put on checks are based on guesses, e.g., this type of check generally clears in five business days or less, it’s already been eight business days and we haven’t gotten any bad news about it, so let’s let the customer have access to the funds. So they’re just inferring that it’s probably cleared; they don’t actually know. (That is, the people deciding how long a hold to put on your check don’t know; presumably someone higher up in the company must know which checks they’ve collected on and which ones they haven’t.) If their guess is wrong and a problem develops later after they released the funds to you, you have to pay the money back.

The reason I kept asking different people about this is it just seemed so ludicrous. When I ultimately discussed it with a supervisor, and I tried to explain why it seemed nonsensical to me, she said she understood exactly what I was saying, and told me a story to illustrate it.

She said, “I just recently had to deal with a gentleman who was very upset about this very thing. He had received a check in the mail that was supposedly some sweepstakes winnings. He thought it looked like a probable scam, but just in case it wasn’t he deposited it into his account, telling the people at the branch that rather than wanting them to waive whatever usual hold there would be, he preferred that they not release the funds until we knew the check was good and had collected on it. Well, the branch held it for at least twice as long as they normally would, never heard back that there was a problem, and released the funds to him. Shortly after that, they were informed the check had bounced, and they took the money back out of his account, which left him with a negative balance, because he had used some of the money in the meantime. So no matter how long a hold is put on, or no matter how long you wait to withdraw the money, with a check there is never a guarantee it is good. You’ll never know until there’s bad news.”

I reiterated that I thought this was insane, and she insisted all banks follow this policy, that even if they say, “That check cleared” all they really mean is, “Enough time has passed that we are assuming that check cleared and we are not restricting your access to those funds,” but you’re still stuck if it ever comes back. She said she had heard years ago that there might be some smaller banks that would actually find out for you if your deposit cleared rather than guessing, but she wasn’t aware of any nowadays that would.

She said, “I don’t know who this is that’s bouncing all these checks to you, but I would see if they could wire the money into your account instead. Then there’s no uncertainty, because when a bank wire is credited to your account it means we’ve actually been paid, so it’s not like a check where we just assume it’s probably cleared after a certain number of days. But you might even then want to close your account and reopen another with a different number, because to have the money wired to you, you have to give them your account number and all your information, and if these are people who are bouncing checks I don’t know how safe I’d feel with them having that information. So give it to them so they can pay you, but then once they’ve paid you, change accounts.”

[Catsfan]

TLD
Very interesting. Thanks for the info.
My bank always gives me the cash immediately as long as I have funds in my account to cover the check.

[pags11]

TLD,

only time I've had a problem with cashier's checks from books is when I deposited them into the ATM...my bank (Wells Fargo) makes you deposit/ cash checks at a branch...a while back they put a hold on one of them, but haven't had any of them bounce...

[Korchnoi]

It seems pretty tough to believe that you can *never* assume the funds are yours? What if the lottery guy spent all the money? Is he legally on the hook for his negative checking acct balance?

[TLD]

What if the lottery guy spent all the money? Is he legally on the hook for his negative checking acct balance?

Yes. That's in fact what happened (though I don't know that "all" the money was gone, but at least some was).

But that's just what one supervisor at one bank told me. I still have trouble buying it myself. There must be some way you can raise a big enough stink to where they have to tell you if your deposit cleared or not, rather than just "Given how much time has passed, it's probably cleared, but if it turns out later that that's not the case then you still have to give us back the money."

[Doug]

TLD
Very interesting. Thanks for the info.
My bank always gives me the cash immediately as long as I have funds in my account to cover the check.

Then they are giving your old good money, not the new money.

Wouldn't the check be permanently cleared after maybe a couple of weeks max ? Where could it possibly need to go beyond that ?

[TLD]

Here’s the latest on this situation.

1. Check deposited March 20 from Greek (processor: SolidPay): Bounced. I received a copy in the mail. Greek instructed me to Fed Ex it to SolidPay which I have now done.

2. Check deposited March 22 from Greek (processor: SolidPay): Bounced. Copy of check is supposedly in the mail now from my bank to me, but I don’t have it yet.

3. Check deposited March 15 from Greek (processor: SolidPay): Will bounce. I received a letter from the bank telling me the account the check was drawn on is closed. However, they have still not taken the money back out of my account (it remains on hold—in my balance but not in my available balance) and don’t claim to have sent a copy of the check to me yet, in spite of the fact that this transaction was a week earlier than the two they’ve already formally rejected. Many hours on the phone with many people has not gotten me any information on why this one is taking so much longer, or when, if ever, they’ll send me a copy of the check, which I need in order to seek reissued payment from SolidPay.

4. Check deposited March 29 from Bodog (processor: SolidPay): Will bounce. I haven’t received any notification in writing, but they’ve already told me by phone that this too is drawn on a closed account and so will be returned, and eventually, hopefully, I’ll get a copy of it. This one is particularly irritating because when I found out the others were bouncing I hadn’t yet deposited this one. So I called Bodog to ask them if I should bother. They supposedly looked up the check number to compare it with a list of those issued from the SolidPay account that had been closed, determined it was from a different more recent account that was fine, and told me to go ahead and deposit it. They were wrong.

5. Check deposited March 29 from Greek (processor: SolidPay): Same as previous item, except Greek, unlike Bodog, told me when I asked that they had no way of knowing if this check was from the SolidPay batch that was drawn on a closed bank account so they didn’t know if it was any good or not.

6. The mystery was figuring out the other check on hold. The bank told me there was a sixth check, and they told me the amount, but were unable or unwilling to tell me the payer or the date of deposit or anything else that would enable me to ascertain which check it was. But from the amount, I was able to narrow it down to two possibilities. But both were deposited way back in February and neither was from SolidPay, so it concerned me that someone else was bouncing checks and that it would take this long for it to come to light, meaning various other checks I’d deposited in the interim were presumably now in question.

After countless hours on the phone stretching over a week, and a long meeting in person at my branch, we finally determined that this was simply a clerical error. Someone in the bowels of the bank had evidently moved the amount of one of the problem checks to hold twice, creating the illusion it was two separate checks for the same amount. They apologized and reinstated the amount back into my available balance.

So the (hopefully final) tally is five sportsbook checks bounced, four from Greek and one from Bodog, all processed by SolidPay. What I’m supposed to do is provide SolidPay the copies of the checks as I receive them (as I noted above, one I’ve already gotten and Fed Exed on to them), and they will reissue payment. Greek and Bodog both assure me that they take responsibility if somehow I don’t get paid by the processor, and promise that I will be reimbursed for all bank fees, Fed Ex charges, etc. that occur as a result of this fiasco, either by them or SolidPay.

So I’m out five figures for now. Best case scenario, I eventually get reimbursed in full after a month or more delay from when I initially deposited the checks, and all expenses get reimbursed as promised. Even in that case, this has cost me many, many hours of labor trying to get to the bottom of all this, plus I’m losing the interest and such that I’d be earning on that money during this period, plus I’ve ruined my relationship with my bank bouncing five checks.

[ShamsWoof10]

I'll say this TLD you may have had to go through a lot but from all the guys at the thread from sboo withdraw delays and I for one thank you for going through this... I also think that is the most informative and constructive thing yet including customer service reps at these books... Thanks for the interesting info. and do keep us updated as I will be checking this thread more...

[Bill Dozer]

Yes, thanks TLD. You are on a bumpy ride but it sounds like it will work out...eventually. I wouldn't feel bad asking for some comps either. Time is money.

Your theory in your first post is on target. The processor lost the service of a bank and in some cases told the books to contact players but it's a mess any way you look at it.

[NeedProtection]

TLD, Did these checks say "SolidPay" at the top or did they say "XXXXXX, Inc."? Sounds like you are going to be made whole here, just a temporary PIA. Don't want to mention the XXXXXX in public, just curious the company name on the check.

[TLD]

As I recall, all but one said SolidPay at the top. The last one just had a series of numbers for their company name. (It was the same bank and same account number though, so I knew it was from them.) None mentioned a sportsbook name (unlike another check I got—from a different processor—that said “Bet CRIS” right on it.)

[TLD]

Update:

Fed Ex just showed up with a replacement check from SolidPay for the one I sent back. It included reimbursement for the bank fee I was charged. I also intend to get the Fed Ex charges reimbursed either from the book or the processor, but I put it on a credit card and when I called Fed Ex just now they said it takes a week or so for them to put the charge through, and for now they could only give me an estimate of what it’ll be. When I get the actual figure, I’ll seek reimbursement.

I’ll deposit this new check today.

I can’t do much about the other four checks until my bank returns them to me. One I should get any day, because they claim they mailed it already. The other three I have no idea.

[sportsfanatic]

Thanks for the heads up TLD. I was going to request a check. Confirmed it would be from SolidPay. Going to hold off for now till I hear that checks have stopped bouncing and that SolidPay has fixed their problems.

Seems like getting the check back from the bank and mailing it to the processor is a real pain. Plus all those fees for the bounced checks. Even if you get reimbursed, all the inconvenience and lost time is unacceptable.

This has thread lots of useful information. You might want to rename it to something other than "Sportsbook checks bouncing".

I ignored this thread at first because I thought you were talking just about sportsbook.com. But you also mention the Greek and Bodog and the Solidpay issues.

This thread would be better titled "checks bouncing from various sportsbooks".