TheGreek cancels my bet after the start time!

Lucas · 02-25-07, 08:49 AM

omg kiwi,
i hope you will resolve it in your favor, but betting lines that already are in arb position 1.5 x 3.4 at the one bookie... what did you expect?
But I think they should honor it at -300 as minimum.

kiwi · 02-25-07, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Lucas

omg kiwi,
i hope you will resolve it in your favor, but betting lines that already are in arb position 1.5 x 3.4 at the one bookie... what did you expect?
But I think they should honor it at -300 as minimum.

But that is only because many bettors placed bets on Tokic. When I placed the bet the best odds for the opponent were only 3.10 (Centrebet). And yes it was an arb but not within one book.

Lucas · 02-25-07, 08:57 AM

sorry then!
i thought greek wrote: "Jorg Schlinchter vs. Bojan Tokic +240 and -200", so what were greek´s odds at the moment you bet? -200/+160?

kiwi · 02-25-07, 09:08 AM

I only remember the odds for Tokic at this time. They were 1.50. I am sure the odds for Schlichter were below 3 (otherwise I had noticed it - unfortunately in the screen shot of the bet one only sees the odds for the player one has placed a bet on). I think Intertops had similar odds like TheGreek at this time. Centrebet had odds of 3.10 for Schlichter.

Now I got a reply from TheGreek:

"Dear Mr. XXX,
Our odds maker for Tennis is based overseas, he sent me the information long before the event started but at the time when there no available representative in the Booking Department, unfortunately; however, I am not in the capacity to cancel the wager, so I had to wait until the Booking department was open to have them do it.
Sorry again for the inconvenience caused.
Kind regards,
Kenisha"

Great...

Lucas · 02-25-07, 09:13 AM

in that case they should honor it of course

kiwi · 02-25-07, 09:50 AM

Now the match has finished and of course I had won at TheGreek...

Lucas · 02-25-07, 10:04 AM

of couse, Jenx law

Yoshi · 02-25-07, 10:05 AM

If you place a big arb on exotic sports like table tennis you deserve to loose $$$ or accounts, i really cant feel sorry for that guy.

kiwi · 02-25-07, 10:12 AM

Please Yoshi, if you have something constructive to say just do that. Otherwise don't bother me with your useless comments.

I place big bets on table tennis since years without any problems. Seems you just have no clue about this sports, do you?

kiwi · 02-25-07, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Lucas

of couse, Jenx law

Yoshi · 02-25-07, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by kiwi

I place big bets on table tennis since years without any problems. Seems you just have no clue about this sports, do you?

You are prolly right, i dont even bother with table tennis because i dont want to lose my accounts at books like the greek while i hunt bad lines or lines that are close to that on non US sports.

Let me guess, thats one of the reasons you and your friends need multiple accounts?
People like you hurt books, why should anyone feel sorry for you?

And if you didnt realize it yet, iam just basically trying to warn you and change your scalping style.
Because sooner or later you will get really ****ed, and not just with losing an unmatched bet.
Peace

kiwi · 02-25-07, 10:26 AM

If you want to say something about another topic like arbing style do that elsewhere. I remember there was a thread about it. If you write something there and I have time to answer I will do that.

Arilou · 02-25-07, 10:45 AM

It's not that -200 was, in and of itself, a bad line. The issue is that the line was -200 / +240. There can be no question that at least one of those lines is in error, as there is a large negative vig on the line. They are acting in good faith here, in my view, and I can't fault them too much for canceling the bet. If they had -200 / +160, you would rightfully expect them to honor you wager. In general Greek has canceled many of my wagers, but not once did I look at them and think that it wasn't fair.

Justin7 · 02-25-07, 10:50 AM

Kiwi -

when did you place the bet? If you live in the US and placed the wager "last night", it must have been fairly close to start-time.

If a book is offering -200/+240 on the same event, it is obviously a bad line. Your real issue is with Greek's customer service. If you bet it two days earlier, and they waited until after the match was concluded to cancel, you would have a strong argument that they should have handled it better. In this case, it looks like they got back to you within an hour or so. This is reasonable, AS LONG AS there are not excessive complaints of "bad lines". To my knowledge, this is the first complaint I have heard about Oly cancelling a wager.

kiwi · 02-25-07, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Arilou

It's not that -200 was, in and of itself, a bad line. The issue is that the line was -200 / +240. There can be no question that at least one of those lines is in error, as there is a large negative vig on the line. They are acting in good faith here, in my view, and I can't fault them too much for canceling the bet. If they had -200 / +160, you would rightfully expect them to honor you wager. In general Greek has canceled many of my wagers, but not once did I look at them and think that it wasn't fair.

Yes, you are right if the odds really had been -200 / +240 it was a clear bad line and I never had played it. But I am sure I had noticed it if that had been the case. I looked for the best odds of both players and TheGreek had 1.50 for Tokic and Centrebet had 3.10 for Schlichter (I think TheGreek had about -200 / +180 in US odds but as I looked for the best odds I am not sure about the +180 anymore).

kiwi · 02-25-07, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

when did you place the bet?

If a book is offering -200/+240 on the same event

I placed the bet about 15 hours before the event started and got the e-mail after the start of the event.

Yes, I know that I should stay away if odds were really
-200/+240 within one book.

kiwi · 02-25-07, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

Kiwi -
This is reasonable, AS LONG AS there are not excessive complaints of "bad lines". To my knowledge, this is the first complaint I have heard about Oly cancelling a wager.

I should add that in the past I even reported bad lines to TheGreek in case I noticed them.
And it is true there are rare cases of cancelling bets from TheGreek. It is a good book without doubts but in this case I feel they acted in a wrong way.

noyb · 02-25-07, 11:03 AM

voiding a bet after the event has started and after having done nothing for sixteen hours before the event isn't worthy of an a+-sportsbook whatever other circumstances there may be. it would seem you would have a good case if you would contact sbr assistance. i'm not sure what you hope to gain by posting this story in the forum though.

kiwi · 02-25-07, 11:09 AM

Yes, Noyb, you are right.
After writing here I thought it would have been better just to send an e-mail to assistance@sportsbookreview.com . It did that already now.

Arilou · 02-25-07, 11:15 AM

Even more than canceling a bet, lying to you is certainly unworthy of an A+ book; if their email said they had +240 / -200 and they didn't, that is troublesome in the extreme.

Yoshi · 02-25-07, 11:29 AM

yep a very smart move to post it Kiwi, i guess you dont like your Greek account anymore after this "case".
I also guess someone like Kiwi is more thrustworthy than the Greek *lmao* have fun SBR.

kiwi · 02-25-07, 11:50 AM

Thanks as always for your constructive comments Yoshi.

Zerlinco · 02-25-07, 02:26 PM

It's a shame when a Book f*cks-up and don't take responsibility.

If in the other hand, you (player) make a mistake on a wager and contact them and state that you made a mistake, they could care-less.

magnavox · 02-26-07, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Zerlinco

If in the other hand, you (player) make a mistake on a wager and contact them and state that you made a mistake, they could care-less.

Actually, The Greek cares more.

Tchocky · 02-26-07, 04:00 PM

I didn't even know you could wager on table tennis.

Dark Horse · 02-26-07, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by kiwi

Yesterday night I found some great TableTennis odds at TheGreek and therefore placed some bets and also a bet in favour of Tokic against Schlichter (odds were 1.50, elsewhere the best odds were 1.40 or 1.45 - I am not sure anymore). The start date of the match was at 2 pm German time. At 2:17 pm I got the following e-mail from TheGreek:

"Dear Valued customers,
This e-mail serves to inform you that your wager taken on the Jorg Schlinchter vs. Bojan Tokic +240 and -200, Table Tennis match up, the correct line should have been +240 and -300. The Booking Department and Odds maker has confirmed this line to be an error.
Please be reminded that: The Greek Sports book reserves the right to refuse or limit any wager. This may include, but not limited to past-posted plays, obvious line errors, or exceeded bet limit amounts as stated on our website. Visit the link provided to view our rules http://www.thegreek.com/rulebook.asp.
Pardon us for the inconvenience caused by this situation.
Kind regards,
Kenisha"

I had no more possibility to play the bet elsewhere:
I answered to TheGreek:

"Hi, thanks for your e-mail. If you really made
an error I accept you cancel a bet. But in
this case you cancelled the bet after the start
of the game. Therefore I cannot accept the
cancellation of the bet.
I hope you will understand my point of view.
I placed the bet many hours before the start
time of the match and you had enough time
to inform me.
Best regards
..."

I think it is not correct to cancel a bet after the start date... I will inform you about their answer.

They can cancel a bet after the completion of a game, if the line was bad. Many books do. That's the risk of taking a shot at a book. So Oly did the right thing by informing you shortly into the game.

kiwi · 02-26-07, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

They can cancel a bet after the completion of a game, if the line was bad. Many books do. That's the risk of taking a shot at a book. So Oly did the right thing by informing you shortly into the game.

I disagree. If a bookmaker has many hours to cancel a bet he should do that before the game starts.

Also it was not my intention to take a shot against the book. I placed 5 other table tennis bets at the same evening (most of them arbs with even a higher winning percentage than the one which got cancelled). I didn't feel this one would be a suspicious one. As I said TheGreek had 1.50 for Tokic and I balanced the bet with 3.10 from Centrebet for Schlichter. I am nearly sure the odds of TheGreek for Schlichter must have been below 3.00 - if I am wrong here I must have been completely blind in the moment where I placed the bet because normally I enter all odds of every bookmaker in a table and at the end of the process I have the best odds for every player together with the book which offers the odds.

Dark Horse · 02-26-07, 05:05 PM

I'm sorry you lost the bet, but on paper it doesn't matter what your intention was. If you bet on a bad line, you bet at your own risk. That risk is that either your bet loses, or will be canceled if it wins. You can't win. Greek caught the mistake right after the match started. Which actually speaks well for them, IMO.

When a line is obviously off, it's better to contact the book about it.

Lucas · 02-26-07, 05:07 PM

DH,
omg what is bad with line -200/+160 when other bookies have -220/+180... -250/+210???
IMO -200/+160 is correct then. Kiwi claims right this.

Dark Horse · 02-26-07, 05:09 PM

That's certainly true. I wish there was a clear definition of what a bad line was. An exact percentage off the average line out there, accepted by all reputable books.

kiwi · 02-26-07, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

I'm sorry you lost the bet, but on paper it doesn't matter what your intention was. If you bet on a bad line, you bet at your own risk. That risk is that either your bet loses, or will be canceled if it wins. You can't win. Greek caught the mistake right after the match started. Which actually speaks well for them, IMO.

When a line is obviously off, it's better to contact the book about it.

I know for my complaint it doesn't matter what my intention was. I just told it to you and others because I think it is not fair to get the reputation of playing bad lines intentionally. The reason why it happens to me from time to time is the huge number of bets I play every month so of course the probability for me to pick a bad line now and then is higher than it is for a person who maybe plays 20 bets per month.

But the other point to cancel the bet after the start of the game matters in my opinion. Why does it speak for TheGreek? This I don't understand. This prevented me to play the bet again with 'correct' odds at TheGreek or elsewhere.

Dark Horse · 02-26-07, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by kiwi

But the other point to cancel the bet after the start of the game matters in my opinion. Why does it speaks for TheGreek? This I don't understand. This prevented me to play the bet again with 'correct' odds at TheGreek or elsewhere.

Many books would simply await the outcome of the game, and then grade the wager either a loss or cancel it.

kiwi · 02-26-07, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

Many books would simply await the outcome of the game, and then grade the wager either a loss or cancel it.

While I accept your point of view I still see things completely different: anyway it is a disadvantage for the bettor compared to the books that he can never cancel a bet if he did any mistake, the bookmaker can. Even if this is not fair I (must) accept it. But if a bookmaker still can void a bet after or during an event this is from my point of view absolutely unacceptable and betting becomes completely insecure and unpredictable.

Dark Horse · 02-26-07, 05:49 PM

It really isn't my point of view. A bookmaker can void a bet before, during, or after a game if the line was bad. That's just the way things are. I wish it was different, but it's not. GL today.