FBI Freezes NETeller Funds

[Korchnoi]

I think the issue is that technically it wasnt stolen from A it was in transit , the money had left or was on its way to neteller and not with neteller

so if you send me cash in the mail and it never arrives, I have only the us postal service to blame?

or if you send me a check, but it doesn't arrive in time (for whatever reason) I'd charge you a late fee.

[bigloser]

If you request cash that is correct . If I insist on sending you cash that may different.

[bigloser]

I have an issue at the moment, with funds I was sending to Neteller. The money never arrived. I now suspect it may have been intercepted on its way.
The bank concerned (HSBC) is not being helpful, it doesnt even seem to realise that there is a problem with Neteller at the moment. They just keep telling me to recall the payment. They dont seem to realise no matter how simply I put it that the payment was never made.
Im not sure who I am going to blame for this. The bank sent it but it never arrived at Neteller, it sort of got caught 1/2 way. Neither the bank or neteller were in control of it when it disappeared.

[Korchnoi]

doublepost

[Korchnoi]

Use the check example, it's better. If the rent needs to be paid by the 5th and your check doesn't arrive until the 6th, is your landlord right to charge you a late fee?

[bigloser]

With a check the money has not left the tenants bank account so he has not yet paid. With EFT the money has gone

[Korchnoi]

With a check the money has not left the tenants bank account so he has not yet paid. With EFT the money has gone

If the landlord received the check in time, he can't argue the client didn't "pay" on time b/c the money hasn't "left the tenant's bank account."

[gotsteam]

I have an issue at the moment, with funds I was sending to Neteller. The money never arrived. I now suspect it may have been intercepted on its way.
The bank concerned (HSBC) is not being helpful, it doesnt even seem to realise that there is a problem with Neteller at the moment. They just keep telling me to recall the payment. They dont seem to realise no matter how simply I put it that the payment was never made.
Im not sure who I am going to blame for this. The bank sent it but it never arrived at Neteller, it sort of got caught 1/2 way. Neither the bank or neteller were in control of it when it disappeared.

Your problem should be an easy one to fix.

Generally speaking, what you need to do is:

1) go into your sending bank ( or call them ).
2) Advise them that the beneficiary of the transfer is claiming "non receipt"
3) Request that the recall the transfer, due to non receipt and post to your account.

They may ask you to pay some charges for this service, depending on your bank, and there is no guarantee they can recover the money, BUT you will then know for sure where the funds are, as your bank will either return the funds to you, or confirm receipt by the recipient.

[gotsteam]

If the landlord received the check in time, he can't argue the client didn't "pay" on time b/c the money hasn't "left the tenant's bank account."

I have to say, it seems to me many here are arguing ridiculous points and minutia.

The bottom line is, the USAO is preventing NETeller from doing anything regarding funds with US Citizens.

NETeller is NOT to blame here, although they could do more to provide returned funds.

In my experience it seems to me they are "carving out" US Citizen Funds, due to this action.

If in fact money has been seized or frozen by the USAO, this is the wisest strategy they could take, as those funds are then related directly to the case.

Unfortunately to most, it seems hardly fair, but neither is a fascist government attacking a foreign company licensed by the FSA and operating legally .

So once again anyone with money stuck in this mess has only their favorite uncle to thank. UNCLE SAM!

[pigsfly]

seems that our beloved u.s.a is taking away more and more freedoms from us, in about 20-50 years i wouldn't be surprised if the u.s. became communist. LOL

[gotsteam]

seems that our beloved u.s.a is taking away more and more freedoms from us, in about 20-50 years i wouldn't be surprised if the u.s. became communist. LOL

Became?

It already is socialist my friend, which in reality is not far from communism.

The illusion of democracy does not make a democracy.

[JoshW]

NETELLER Works to Return Funds to US Customers After US Withdrawal


8 February 2007 - NETELLER Plc (LSE: NLR), the leading global independent online money transfer business, today issued the following update with regard to its US business and criminal charges against two of its founders.

On 19 January 2007, at the request of the Group, the Group’s legal advisers met with representatives of the United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York (“USAO”) to clarify the Group’s position with respect to the complaints brought on 16 January 2007 against two of the Group’s founders, Mr. Stephen Lawrence and Mr. John Lefebvre. Neither are current employees or directors of NETELLER. In that meeting, the Group pledged to cooperate with the USAO, indicated it was prepared to begin document production promptly and discussed a potential mechanism for arranging an orderly repayment of funds to US customers.

The discussions between the Group’s legal advisers and the USAO are ongoing. The Group is, under advice of its legal advisers, commencing production of documents and intends to cooperate with the USAO in its investigation.

Following upon the complaints dated 16 January 2007, banks in the US began declining to permit transactions involving the Group through accounts maintained at one or more automated clearinghouses in the United States. Additionally, the Group has been advised that the USAO has obtained court-ordered seizure warrants seizing funds pertaining to the Group’s transactions. To the best of the Group’s knowledge, it believes that the amount of funds seized by the USAO or otherwise restricted by third parties does not exceed US$ 55 million. These funds were largely in the process of being transferred from the Group to its US customers or vice versa.
As a result of the restrictions placed by third parties, court-ordered seizures, and related legal concerns, the Group is currently unable to make payments to US customers. Nevertheless, the Group is in discussions with the USAO to manage an orderly return of funds to US customers. As part of these discussions, it is contemplated that the USAO will engage a forensic accounting firm, at the Group’s expense, to assist in this process and to examine the Group’s financial position. “The return of funds to our US customers is a top priority for NETELLER” said Ron Martin, Group President and CEO. US customers wishing to withdraw funds from their NETELLER e-wallet accounts will experience ongoing delays while these discussions continue, and a further update will be provided by the Group once effective repayment mechanisms are determined.

To the Group’s knowledge, no criminal action or proceeding has been brought against the Group, its current officers or directors by the USAO. Nevertheless, there can be no assurance that the Group will not be charged in a criminal action at some subsequent time. The Group intends to work with the USAO to seek a negotiated resolution of any allegations relating to its US activities. Any resolution of this matter may lead to potential sanctions against the Group including material financial penalties, fines and forfeitures.

It is emphasized that in line with the Group’s standard business practices for all customers, funds held by the Group for US customers are held in segregated trust accounts. The Group’s own cash position remains strong and the Group currently has sufficient working capital to fund all its customers’ balances as well as ongoing requirements of the business.

NETELLER remains committed to developing its business in line with its stated strategic objectives including geographical and product diversification for all markets. The Group will focus on its continuing business and the opportunities available in the growing markets of Europe, Asia and the Americas outside of the United States. Since the Group’s withdrawal from the US market on 18 January 2007, average daily new account sign-ups of new customers from non-US markets has been around 1,400. This compares to average daily sign ups of 3,303 for the year to 31 December 2006. Daily fee revenue since 18 January 2007 has averaged over US$ 200,000 per day (excluding any revenues from Netbanx, 1-Pay and interest income). These metrics demonstrate the resilience of the Group's ongoing business. NETELLER customers not resident in the US continue to be minimally affected by this withdrawal from the US market.

In view of the continuing uncertainty, the Group's shares will continue to be suspended from trading on AIM for the time being. Further announcements will be made as appropriate.

[JoshW]

55 Million. That isn't a small amount. I imagine Neteller has at least a billion worldwide, but still.

[pags11]

it's not looking good...

[azkid]

I don't understand. Does this mean we're likely to get our money back eventually or not?

[increasedodds]

You'll probably get your money back years down the road.

Sean

[azkid]

but...

what makes you so sure of this. What precedent is there for something like this? Neteller makes it sound like they're trying to work out a payment plan as quickly as possible. At least it sounds like the money is safe and we WILL get it eventually...

[increasedodds]

I'm not sure - no one is.

Precedent says the FBI usually does not steal individual money.

With Paypal, paypal paid a fine, but people were given their money.

With BOS, the fed court ordered them to pay back Americans (They chose not to do so)

The FBI has said they will hold the Neteller money as evidence.

Years from now when the court thing is done, you'll prob get back your money.

It is possible Neteller could strike a deal like paypal and avoid time delays.

It is a ****ed up country we live in.

Sean

[azkid]

neteller

If nobody knows, then why speculate that it could take years?
While Neteller and the government may be really coldhearted, they must also know that people's life savings are tied up in this and people need access to their cash badly. I know that I am having liquidity problems at this point and really need my 8K.

Not that her word really matters, but I talked to a netller rep today and she claims it will not take years. She says she knows higher ups are working hard to resolve this and give us our money.

Everybody has been giving neteller shit for this, but jesus christ, 55 million was seized by the FBI. It's completely unprecedented and neteller is doing its best to get us our money. I really believe that. And I am sure we are going to get our money soon. At least I hope so...

[pags11]

like I said before, I just wish neteller was more honest with us as to why we couldn't get our funds, instead of making up like three stories before the truth came out...

[JoshW]

az - I don't think anyone knows at this point. But I would say we are talking about months instead of weeks at this point.

[rolemand]

At this point I'll take months vs the other alternative

[marc]

If nobody knows, then why speculate that it could take years?
While Neteller and the government may be really coldhearted, they must also know that people's life savings are tied up in this and people need access to their cash badly. I know that I am having liquidity problems at this point and really need my 8K.

Not that her word really matters, but I talked to a netller rep today and she claims it will not take years. She says she knows higher ups are working hard to resolve this and give us our money.

Everybody has been giving neteller shit for this, but jesus christ, 55 million was seized by the FBI. It's completely unprecedented and neteller is doing its best to get us our money. I really believe that. And I am sure we are going to get our money soon. At least I hope so...

Neteller reps know nothing. I had one moron tell me "don't believe anything you read in the forums. Only trust what you read at updates.neteller.com" Meanwhile, many of the forum posts were dead on the money, while Neteller was spewing out lies about delays due to volume.

These reps are located in vancouver. The execs are in the isle of man. There is no way the reps could know what the exces are doing about getting us our money. They could be out on a golf outing for all these phone reps know.

I will tell you this. Getting us paid IS NOT a top priority right now. Top priority is getting the DOJ to agree not to indict any current Netelelr executives. Second Priority, id getting the DOJ not to indict Neteller. 3rd priority is to negotiate the smallest fine posibble for Neteller. 4th priority is making sure the DOJ can't get access to Merchant funds. THe fifth priortiy is getting US cusomters paid. But since Neteller continues to earn interest on our money, if the DOJ wants to take thier time with that one, Neteller won't press the issue.

[pags11]

"don't believe what you read in the forums"...that's funny...neteller was so full of crap for so long I don't trust a word they say...

[The Judge]

Personally, I think that NETeller has been very upfront about their dilemma. It's not like they created this problem and I hardly blame them for treading lightly.

[increasedodds]

Nothing is preventing neteller from paying.

They have 700+employees. Each opens 5 bank accounts,that's3500 UK bank accounts. Each writes 100 checks on UK accts and all US players are paid.

Neteller's goals:

1. Avoid indictment.
2. Avoid indictment.
3. Hold interest.


Sean

[Santo]

Most of their employees are in Canada.

[bigloser]

Nothing is preventing neteller from paying.

They have 700+employees. Each opens 5 bank accounts,that's3500 UK bank accounts. Each writes 100 checks on UK accts and all US players are paid.

Why would an employee want to expose themselves to possible arrest in the US for their employer?

[pags11]

I like how when you call their 800 number it hangs up on you now...