filing a complaint agianst Neteller

[marc]

Guys,

It's clear Neteller won't pay any US resdients until they cut a deal with the DOJ. It's not because they can't pay us, rather they are using us as leverage. Every day that goes by, they earn interest on our money. Based on thier last interim report, it is fair to assume that over the last 2 weeks they have earned about $200,000 in interest on our money. Time is clearly on thier side.

The ISle of Man actually deos have strict regulations. If enough of us complain, they might do something. Neteller's biggest fear is losing thier license. If enough of us complain, Neteller might feel pressure to bring this to a swifter resolution.

Send emails of complaints to gaming@gov.im

[bigloser]

This is just not correct. If it were Neteller would accept deposits in $US from none US residents, they wont do this, I have tried.
The Isle of Man regulatory authorities will do nothing, because Neteller have done nothing wrong.
If you want to waste your own time go ahead.
You realise you are currently doing the US governments work for them, they have always said everything offshore is corrupt, the way you are behaving only aids their case. Neteller is not corrupt, it is a legitimate business that has been screwed by the US.

[marc]

Bigloser,

Neteller refuses to pay US customers. How does that make them a legit business. I';m not doing the DOJ's work for them. Neteller is doing a perfectly good job on thier own demonstrating how currpt thier management is.

If you are such a defender of Neteller, why don't you provide 1 legitamate reason as to why Neteller won't send us a check.

As for the Isle of Man, I don't think they want the repuation taht Costa Rica and Antigua have of allowing thier operators to screw thier customers. If the Isle of Man pulls neteller's license, than Neteller is finished.

[azkid]

Yeah great idea Marc. Not. If the Isle of Man pulls Neteller's license, then guess who else is finished? WE ARE! Why would Neteller have any incentive to give us our money then?

[GPC]

Since Neteller is a financial services company, not a gaming company, I think a better organization to make the complaint to is the Isle of Man financial ombudsman as I posted in the thread

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/25092-neteller-payments-could-take-6-months.html

[bigloser]

,
Neteller refuses to pay US customers.

No, they are not refusing to pay US customers. There is a big difference between refusing to do something and being unable to do something.

If you hadnt been around the board for so long I would definately had you down as one of them.

[bigloser]

And what do you think I of Ms view of the US interferring in their economy is likely to be. I reckon any complaints might just make their day, will certainly lead to amusement.

[marc]

Bigloser,

You are 100% correct. There is a big difference between unwilling and unable. If Neteller were unable to pay us, that would be one thing. But the fact that they can send checks in US dollars to candians means that this is a situation where Neteller is UNWILLING to pay us. I'd even fly out to the ISle of Man if Neteller would give us a check.

GPC,

The problem with the ombudsman is that you can't submit a complaint until you have filed a formal complaint with neteller and give neteller 8 weeks to respond.

[new2betting]

Why blame Neteller? They were doing just fine...until the DOJ and the US government started their usual bullying tactics.

How can Neteller pay when funds are frozen by the DOJ?

Blame the DOJ.

[marc]

New2betting,

No one has frozen Neteller's funds. If Neteller's funds were frozen, no one would be getting paid. DOJ never told Neteller they couldn't pay US customers.

The banks won't allow Neteller to send eft's anymore, but nothing is preventing Neteller from mailing out checks.

Here is a good analogy. Imagine you walk into astor to buy a lottery ticket. AFter you walk in, an armed robber comes in . The woner of the stre, grabs you, and uses you as a human shield. The armed robber then shoots you, grabs the money and runs away.

Who do you blame for getting shot. Do you blame the robber, the store owner or both. Personally, I'd blame boht. I may not like what the DOJ is doing, but no one is forcing Neteller not to pay us. The fact that the DOJ is putting pressure on Neteller, doesn't give Neteller the right to screw us.

[nosuzieno]

call me old fashioned but I have long since had a rule against doing gambling business with those under federal indictment. Hope all goes well for all who are still dealing with Net teller but certainly one assumes huge risk for leaving any substantail amount of funds there...

[MrX]

There is one thing reassuring about Neteller that I've noticed in the last few days, and that is their response to the mass peer-to-peer transactions from Americans to non-Americans.

As many of you know, there was a large movement of funds from American Neteller to non-American to gaming sites, mostly Pokerstars that was facilitated by a thread on another forum.

This forced Neteller to make a decision on these transfers, and I totally expected them to disable peer-to-peer for Americans. Instead they temporarily froze the non-American accounts that were doing this and told everyone that facilitating American -> non-American -> gaming site transfers was not cool, but that American -> non-American -> bank account was fine.

If Neteller's prime motivation was to hold on to our funds, allowing us to do that would be last thing they'd want. Also, if they just wanted fees, they would let the money flow into the merchant accounts as it was doing.

So anyway, I hate the way Neteller is handling this overall, and in particular, the communication has been HORRIBLE, but I think there are some signs that, despite some incompetence, they really do intend to get us our money.

[marc]

MR. X

If neteller wanted to get us our money, but didn't want to mail checks to US addresses, they could do a couple of things.

1)Under the circumstances peer - peer transfers from americans to non americans should be free. Neteller should not use this as a last oppurtunity to profit off of us

2) Instead of me sending my money to a friend in canada, and that person withdrawing fdunds in his name, why won't neteller just mail a check in my name to a candian address.
SOme of us have friends in canda who would be more than willing to foward us a check. WHat they don't feel comfortable doing is despoiting a check for 5 figures into thier bank account and then send us a check writen on thier account.

3) eft's are gone for good. Why doens't neteller take the money out of pending, and put it back in our accounts, so we could do peer-peer if we so choose, and not have to go to the hassle of trying to find a clerk willing to cancel the eft requests for us.

there is so much that neteller could be doing that they aren't, that it's clear to me they are happy to let this drag out.

[MrX]

Marc,

I 100% agree with every point.

I was only saying that there was a sliver of evidence that this is just gross incompetence on NT's part, and not a sinister plan.

[jason]

Marc,
You have read this situation perfectly. Neteller can show their true colors - since we know they have options to pay. NOTHING stops them from issuing checks, etc. Even they can't claim it does.

This is US players being used as pawns in a hopeless battle to cut a deal with the Department of Justice.

Not sure what the Isle of Man will do, but if it will put pressure on Neteller to stop CHOOSING our money as their bargaining chip, it might be the right move.

[gotsteam]

Guys,

It's clear Neteller won't pay any US resdients until they cut a deal with the DOJ. It's not because they can't pay us, rather they are using us as leverage. Every day that goes by, they earn interest on our money. Based on thier last interim report, it is fair to assume that over the last 2 weeks they have earned about $200,000 in interest on our money. Time is clearly on thier side.

The ISle of Man actually deos have strict regulations. If enough of us complain, they might do something. Neteller's biggest fear is losing thier license. If enough of us complain, Neteller might feel pressure to bring this to a swifter resolution.

Send emails of complaints to gaming@gov.im

What a ridiculous post.

#1) NETeller are not and never were a gaming business, nor licensed by the Isle of Man gaming authority. As such complaining to them, accomplished absolutely nothing other than wasting your own time.

#2) I believe NETeller cannot pay, and that is the problem.
In order to write a USD check, they must hold accounts in USD, and with the DOJ action, no bank is going to risk their correspondent relationships in order to provide a USD check writing facility to NETeller. - it is a matter of simple common sense.

#3) The thought that NETeller or any other company is using US Players as pawns is completely and utterly ridiculous, as it implies that the US Government actually gives a shit about anyone or anything other than unlawfully seizing monies which do not belong to them. Dont fool yourself for a minute, the US government doesn't give a flying **** about or any other players, they care about STEALING NETellers monies and/or trying to tax a business that is not doing business in, or based in the US Borders.

Telling yourself otherwise in regards to the above points is nothing more than deluding yourself!

[Seattle Slew]

Gotsteam, I think you are 100 percent correct. I find it hard to believe some posters, and even the people running these boards, have theorized the US cares one bit about player's funds and are trying to oust stiff books. They don't care about the book's customer service, only if they can arrest someone or force them to leave the US market.

The BetonSports arrests were motivated simply by the fact they were in the US, not because they had player complaints. They were busted because they entered the US. Plain and simple. Just like Neteller guys were busted because they entered the US, same as the Sportingbet guy. Just like any other top-notch book owner would be busted if he entered the US, even if he runs an honest shop.

If the US really cared about player funds, REALLY CARED, they would have made a deal with Betonsports to refund all US money, drop US customers, and we'll drop the case. If that happened, US players would have gotten their money in days. Same thing with Neteller. The US could have allowed the banks/money processors to process these transactions to clear the problem, then drop all books in the future, tell the Neteller guys they can't live in the US off their profits.

The thought that NETeller or any other company is using US Players as pawns is completely and utterly ridiculous, as it implies that the US Government actually gives a shit about anyone or anything other than unlawfully seizing monies which do not belong to them. Dont fool yourself for a minute, the US government doesn't give a flying **** about or any other players, they care about STEALING NETellers monies and/or trying to tax a business that is not doing business in, or based in the US Borders.

Telling yourself otherwise in regards to the above points is nothing more than deluding yourself!

[jason]

I'm sorry to say, my friends, that I believe the last two posts are mistaken. The theory that Neteller is using American accounts as pawns is not premised on the fact that the DOJ cares about US player funds; instead it is premised on the fact that a desperate company is trying to think of SOMETHING that might give them some bargaining power with the DOJ.

As most of us can specualte, Neteller is wrong and making the worng move. But that doesn't mean that they're not tyinrg.

[marc]

Gotsteam,

Perhaps you can offer an explanation as to why Neteller has been able to send USD checks to Canadians.

Perhaps you can explain why Merchnats have thier chocie of whihc currency to recive thier funds in, But Neteller is unwilling to send US cusomters in a currency other than dollars. Many of us would be quite happy to recieve a check in dollars

Perhaps you can explain what is preventing Neteller from going to thier bank and have them cut Bank checks, and mail out Bank checks, instead of checks written against Neteller's account.

Perhaps you can explain why Neteller won't outsource the payments to anohter processor.

I'm afraid you are the one who is deluding yourself. If neteller wanted to pay, they could pay. No one is stopping them. No one has frozen thier funds. The only plausible reason for the no pay, is either they are in no rush to pay, or they are trying to find the most cost effective way of paying.

But I am sure Netelelr is quite happy to see so many people paying them 1.9% to transfer the money to a friend overseas or in Canada. The fact that Neteller won't waive the perr-peer transfer fees, is the clearest proof that Neteller wanst to screw us one last time.

[Seattle Slew]

I should clarify I agreed with gotsteam's theory on the US not giving a rat's rear about player funds or what books they bust up, whether they are honest books or not.

I do think Neteller is out of line and should send checks, and might be holding funds to secure a deal with DOJ on no further prosecutiion for current owners of Neteller.

[gotsteam]

Gotsteam,

Perhaps you can offer an explanation as to why Neteller has been able to send USD checks to Canadians.

Perhaps you can explain why Merchnats have their choice of which currency to receive their funds in, But Neteller is unwilling to send US customers in a currency other than dollars. Many of us would be quite happy to receive a check in dollars

Perhaps you can explain what is preventing Neteller from going to their bank and have them cut Bank checks, and mail out Bank checks, instead of checks written against Neteller's account.

Perhaps you can explain why Neteller won't outsource the payments to anohter processor.

I'm afraid you are the one who is deluding yourself. If neteller wanted to pay, they could pay. No one is stopping them. No one has frozen thier funds. The only plausible reason for the no pay, is either they are in no rush to pay, or they are trying to find the most cost effective way of paying.

But I am sure Netelelr is quite happy to see so many people paying them 1.9% to transfer the money to a friend overseas or in Canada. The fact that Neteller won't waive the perr-peer transfer fees, is the clearest proof that Neteller wants to screw us one last time.

NETeller settles with Canadian Players in CAD$
Merchants were forced to select a currency OTHER THAN USD months ago before all of this began.

I imagine at this point in time, with the recent events, NETeller is simply reluctant to deal with US Players at all, as they probably are more concerned that if they were to send a check to the US, and it fell into the "wrong hands" the location of where they are banking now, specifically would be available - note that is my opinion and not a fact, however it is a logical assumption based on the situation.

To be clear, i am of the mind it has nothing to do about pawns/bargaining chips.

As we all know NETeller would have rathered the ability to continue business as usual, as the business model was and still could be a CASH COW.

Further, assuming an impartial trier of fact, NETeller should prevail in this case. Of course, the flaw to my view, is that impartiality and justice are things that are long extinct in the USA. One only has to look at the last 2 presidential elections.

I guess the current US attitude towards these things is.....well we may have missed OSAMA, but at least we got those notorious hippie owners of NETeller off the street.

I think everyone on this board and all the other boards, should stop bitching about neteller, and the like (symptoms ) and address the real problem, the USA's NAZI like conduct on the world scene.

Reign in your terrorist leaders/government, and we would not be having this discussion!!