If Lebron passes Kareem for most pts all time, but doesn't win another ring...

[lakerboy]

While I agree nothing bron can really do to ever leap MJ, he pretty much cemented at 2 all time (which pretty damn good!). I don’t like the narrative he had to jump teams to win, fact of the matter is mj could stay with the bulls and win because bulls front office did a great job surrounding him with the right pieces. They gave bron nothing in Cleveland, those teams he took to the finals were god awful without him! The bulls still reached the conf finals when mj took his vacation to play baseball! The narrative Bron had to trophy hunt by leaving cavs is just wrong imo.

Just to be correct they lost to the Knicks in round 2 not conference finals. Then they lost in conference finals next year to Orlando when Michael returned.

[asiagambler]

Jordan is the goat for sure

Then Kobe

Then Lebron

Kareem

Magic

That'd be my 5 personally

Also did anyone forget how Kobe beat the Suns team in the WCF who had Nash Amare Marion Jason Richardson Grant Hill Barbosa straight stacked form top to bottom, then went on to beat KG Pierce Allen and Rondo.

Kobe winning 2 rings w Pau is the most impressive feat imo in history. James had Wade and Bosh, then had a Love Irving combo.

James winning in 2016 down 3-1 against the best regular season team in history was more impressive. He only really had Irving since Love was a complete no show. JR Smith was more of a factor than Love

[7deuceoff$uit]

Kobe dominated every WCF and Shaq dominated the finals. The teams they played in the West were insane. That Kings team was one of the most stacked in history. Can't believe they never won a ship together.

Bibby
Christie
Peja
Webber
Divac
Bobby Jackson

02 Game 6... Never Forget

[Goat Milk]

James winning in 2016 down 3-1 against the best regular season team in history was more impressive. He only really had Irving since Love was a complete no show. JR Smith was more of a factor than Love

Love didn't play well but was guarded by Draymond who was the DPOY so I don't blame him too much. Irving is a far superior player to Pau Gasol, it's not even close. Irving averaged like 30 a game in that series. Gasol could never do that in a million years. Also, that Warriors team was no where near Boston. Boston would dick smack that Warriors team and put Curry on his ass. They were a reg season team. Boston was full of legendary players. Straight legends. GS had Curry... That's why they needed the 2nd best player in the world in KD to actually be a dynasty.

[Goat Milk]

James winning in 2016 down 3-1 against the best regular season team in history was more impressive. He only really had Irving since Love was a complete no show. JR Smith was more of a factor than Love

James should have never been down 3-1 in that series either. Cleveland was a superior team roster wise. James better than Curry. Irving a million times better than Thompson. Love better than Green. Thompson and JR Smith are as good together as a combo as Draymond, who got himself suspended for a game like an airhead.

[Goat Milk]

02 Game 6... Never Forget

Kobe and Shaq were too much. Vladie Divac choked in that game. Clearly recall. Melted down. People said rig job, maybe, but if so game wouldn't have been that close. Comes down to missed jumpers, can't rig jumpers.

[PAULYPOKER]

This COVID shit just knocked a year off the King's career but he'll still
get all the stats in a hat.........

I can hear it now......

James's career shortened a year and still shatters em all.....

[freelee]

Yeah different players. Kobe has more 50 point and 60 point games than James and Jordan combined.

wtf are you talking about lol

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/50-point-game-most-times.html

[freelee]

Love didn't play well but was guarded by Draymond who was the DPOY so I don't blame him too much. Irving is a far superior player to Pau Gasol, it's not even close. Irving averaged like 30 a game in that series. Gasol could never do that in a million years. Also, that Warriors team was no where near Boston. Boston would dick smack that Warriors team and put Curry on his ass. They were a reg season team. Boston was full of legendary players. Straight legends. GS had Curry... That's why they needed the 2nd best player in the world in KD to actually be a dynasty.

I don't even like KD but he was clearly the #1 player in the world when he won his 2 chips he dominated bron boy in those 2 series

[asiagambler]

James should have never been down 3-1 in that series either. Cleveland was a superior team roster wise. James better than Curry. Irving a million times better than Thompson. Love better than Green. Thompson and JR Smith are as good together as a combo as Draymond, who got himself suspended for a game like an airhead.

You can't say Love is better than Green (which he isn't) then say Green was the reason Love played badly

That Warriors team was legendary too. Don't forget their bench unit was very very good

[Goat Milk]

wtf are you talking about lol
https://www.basketball-reference.com...ost-times.html

Maybe just 60 point games, must've read it wrong. Definitely one of those two tho

[Goat Milk]

I don't even like KD but he was clearly the #1 player in the world when he won his 2 chips he dominated bron boy in those 2 series

That's fine I'll give u that, him and James about even. KD shits on Steph Curry.

You can't say Love is better than Green (which he isn't) then say Green was the reason Love played badly

That Warriors team was legendary too. Don't forget their bench unit was very very good

I'll still take Kevin Love as an overall player over Green. Love is going to the Hall of Fame and Green is not a lock. Don't think they were legendary, they just tried hard in the reg season. They were down 3-1 to OKC and shoulda lost in the WCF, but Klay Thompson had a legendary game 6 to extend the series.

Their bench was good. Barnes Livingston and Barbosa. Iguadala got the start in prime time. Just shows you though. That was a 7 game series battle, and in comes KD, and they basically sweep the Cavs, going 16-1 overall in the playoffs without even breaking a sweat. That previous Warriors team wasn't shit compared to KD team.

Warriors shouldn't even have won any rings without KD now that I think about it. Love and Irving didn't even play in the first series and James took it to 6 games with Mozgof and Dellavedova as his two key players next to JR Brick.

Curry is a tier 2 player. Thompson isn't much. Telling me those two guys are gonna beat KG Pierce and Ray Allen and Rondo? Lmao. They'd both be injured in the 1st quarter vs. that Boston team.

[7deuceoff$uit]

Kobe and Shaq were too much. Vladie Divac choked in that game. Clearly recall. Melted down. People said rig job, maybe, but if so game wouldn't have been that close. Comes down to missed jumpers, can't rig jumpers.

I don't remember Vlade choking as much as I remember the Lakers shooting 27 FTs in the FOURTH QUARTER... As a team, they only made 5 FGs. Total rig job.

[Hman]

No would could average 45 a game today, impossible. If Jordan averaged that he'd never win a ring. Kobe averaged 36 a game for a full season and almost beat the Suns in round 1, but was playing with straight BUMS.

Goat my friend, I have to kindly disagree.

James Harden averages 35 today in a league which plays ZERO defense.

Freaking Trae Young & Bradley Beal average 30.

Jordan averaged 37 when they played FAR SUPERIOR defense than today.

The league was built on defense back then.

Today it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and I mean then being A and today being Z, that much different.

I won't argue with you about Kobe because I agree.

There aren't enough dunks & layups in one game for Lebron to ever score 81.

[bigtymer56]

Goat my friend, I have to kindly disagree.

James Harden averages 35 today in a league which plays ZERO defense.

Freaking Trae Young & Bradley Beal average 30.

Jordan averaged 37 when they played FAR SUPERIOR defense than today.

The league was built on defense back then.

Today it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and I mean then being A and today being Z, that much different.

I won't argue with you about Kobe because I agree.

There aren't enough dunks & layups in one game for Lebron to ever score 81.

http://john (@iam_johnw) Tweeted: Im...675683329?s=20

[lakerboy]

That's fine I'll give u that, him and James about even. KD shits on Steph Curry.


I'll still take Kevin Love as an overall player over Green. Love is going to the Hall of Fame and Green is not a lock. Don't think they were legendary, they just tried hard in the reg season. They were down 3-1 to OKC and shoulda lost in the WCF, but Klay Thompson had a legendary game 6 to extend the series.

Their bench was good. Barnes Livingston and Barbosa. Iguadala got the start in prime time. Just shows you though. That was a 7 game series battle, and in comes KD, and they basically sweep the Cavs, going 16-1 overall in the playoffs without even breaking a sweat. That previous Warriors team wasn't shit compared to KD team.

Warriors shouldn't even have won any rings without KD now that I think about it. Love and Irving didn't even play in the first series and James took it to 6 games with Mozgof and Dellavedova as his two key players next to JR Brick.

Curry is a tier 2 player. Thompson isn't much. Telling me those two guys are gonna beat KG Pierce and Ray Allen and Rondo? Lmao. They'd both be injured in the 1st quarter vs. that Boston team.

Love is not going to the hall of fame. Is that a joke bro?

[milwaukee mike]

people spend way too much of their lives on silly arguments about which person they will never meet, and wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire, could throw and bounce a ball slightly better than another

i don't even care about my own siblings as much as some of you nut suckers care about mj/lebron

[2daBank]

Just to be correct they lost to the Knicks in round 2 not conference finals. Then they lost in conference finals next year to Orlando when Michael returned.

Huh. Seriously didn’t realize that. I been thinking and saying it was conf finals forever, knew it was the Knicks. Nobody has ever corrected me on it so assumed I was right!! Lol. Either way still basically same sediment, they were a respectable playoff team/contender without mj. The early Bron cavs teams he took to finals were a dumpster fire I’m not sure even won 30 games without him!

Those 2 years rockets with Hakeem won both championships right?

[2daBank]

James winning in 2016 down 3-1 against the best regular season team in history was more impressive. He only really had Irving since Love was a complete no show. JR Smith was more of a factor than Love

Not to take anything away from that ring but in all fairness a lot of things happened that kinda caused warriors to self destruct imo. Not sure that ship makes up for his total no show against mavs when he was on heat! That warriors series killed me, I was chasing cavs all series but by time they started winning games I wasn’t workin with much of a roll, lol.

[lakerboy]

people spend way too much of their lives on silly arguments about which person they will never meet, and wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire, could throw and bounce a ball slightly better than another

i don't even care about my own siblings as much as some of you nut suckers care about mj/lebron

lmao

[lakerboy]

Huh. Seriously didn’t realize that. I been thinking and saying it was conf finals forever, knew it was the Knicks. Nobody has ever corrected me on it so assumed I was right!! Lol. Either way still basically same sediment, they were a respectable playoff team/contender without mj. The early Bron cavs teams he took to finals were a dumpster fire I’m not sure even won 30 games without him!

Those 2 years rockets with Hakeem won both championships right?

Yes Hakeem won both.

I'm surprised you don't remember the 1994 eastern conference finals with Knicks and Indy. Game 5 was the game when Miller got the 8 points in a few seconds. Knicks won in 7

[2daBank]

Kobe and Shaq were too much. Vladie Divac choked in that game. Clearly recall. Melted down. People said rig job, maybe, but if so game wouldn't have been that close. Comes down to missed jumpers, can't rig jumpers.

Obviously it wasn’t straight rigged but you gotta be crazy to suggest lakers didn’t get a ton of help in that game!

[Hman]

people spend way too much of their lives on silly arguments about which person they will never meet, and wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire, could throw and bounce a ball slightly better than another

i don't even care about my own siblings as much as some of you nut suckers care about mj/lebron

It just makes for fun debate, as long as everyone remains civil

[2daBank]

Goat my friend, I have to kindly disagree.

James Harden averages 35 today in a league which plays ZERO defense.

Freaking Trae Young & Bradley Beal average 30.

Jordan averaged 37 when they played FAR SUPERIOR defense than today.

The league was built on defense back then.

Today it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and I mean then being A and today being Z, that much different.

I won't argue with you about Kobe because I agree.

There aren't enough dunks & layups in one game for Lebron to ever score 81.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say teams these days also have many more possessions a game which obviously helps your side.

Side note. Did I really read goaty say Love is a HOFer?!?!??? Cmon goaty, that the craziest thing I’ve read in this whole thread!! Lol

[2daBank]

It just makes for fun debate, as long as everyone remains civil

That what I was thinking. Wtf else we gonna talk about? Beats the shit out of arguing about this stupid fukkin virus and shut down!!

[milwaukee mike]

It just makes for fun debate, as long as everyone remains civil

yeah i know but it seems like mj/kobe or mj/lebron has been about 80% of the posts on gambling forums over the past 15 years

[JaimeMiro]

People always blame LeBron for the Dallas series, truth is Miami phucked around and was usually up double digits in most of their losses...

We really should appreciate how legendary that Dallas team was... They swept the Lakers and almost swept a young stacked OKC team. Game 2, and even the way they needed ot in game 1 was telling. Problem for Miami was, they didn't even know who their best player was

[Hman]

People always blame LeBron for the Dallas series, truth is Miami phucked around and was usually up double digits in most of their losses...

We really should appreciate how legendary that Dallas team was... They swept the Lakers and almost swept a young stacked OKC team. Dirk was probably was the best player in the world then. Game 2, and even the way they needed it in game 1 was telling

True about Dirk

He was Christian Laetnner-Like during that playoff run

[Goat Milk]

Goat my friend, I have to kindly disagree.

James Harden averages 35 today in a league which plays ZERO defense.

Freaking Trae Young & Bradley Beal average 30.

Jordan averaged 37 when they played FAR SUPERIOR defense than today.

The league was built on defense back then.

Today it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and I mean then being A and today being Z, that much different.

I won't argue with you about Kobe because I agree.

There aren't enough dunks & layups in one game for Lebron to ever score 81.

True. But Jordan never averaged 37 on a championship team. Not even a finals team. Young and Beal play on two of the worst teams in the NBA, that's why they put up those numbers.

Harden is one of the best scorers in NBA history next to Jordan Kobe KD and others. He's a beast. His handle is unlike anything Jordan or Kobe could do. Though he's not near the player overall.

To me, Jordan could average 40, but when you're playing with another superstar, which is what would be required for Jordan to win/compete in today's NBA, I don't think that'll fly. Like, what, Jordan will average 45 with an Anthony Davis or Kawhi type on his team? I doubt that.

[Goat Milk]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say teams these days also have many more possessions a game which obviously helps your side.

Side note. Did I really read goaty say Love is a HOFer?!?!??? Cmon goaty, that the craziest thing I’ve read in this whole thread!! Lol

Think he'll make it yeah. Numbers too good to ignore. Has a ring. Can't remember if he won in the Olympics. All that stuff counts. Many rebounding titles. His career far from over too since he can shoot.

People always blame LeBron for the Dallas series, truth is Miami phucked around and was usually up double digits in most of their losses...

We really should appreciate how legendary that Dallas team was... They swept the Lakers and almost swept a young stacked OKC team. Game 2, and even the way they needed ot in game 1 was telling. Problem for Miami was, they didn't even know who their best player was

Dirk destroyed them. The moment Wade and Lebron laughed at Dirk after game 1, it was over for them. Idiots. You're right, Miami controlled that entire series, then once they lost that game 5, they were doomed. James literally disappeared though. Never seen anything like it in all my years. A ghost in every 4th q of every game. Think he totaled like 7-12 points in the 4th quarters of the 6 games combined. Some crazy shit like that.

[Hman]

True. But Jordan never averaged 37 on a championship team. Not even a finals team. Young and Beal play on two of the worst teams in the NBA, that's why they put up those numbers.

Harden is one of the best scorers in NBA history next to Jordan Kobe KD and others. He's a beast. His handle is unlike anything Jordan or Kobe could do. Though he's not near the player overall.

To me, Jordan could average 40, but when you're playing with another superstar, which is what would be required for Jordan to win/compete in today's NBA, I don't think that'll fly. Like, what, Jordan will average 45 with an Anthony Davis or Kawhi type on his team? I doubt that.

But just remember this one thing Goat....

You talked earlier Tier players

Tier 1 Players, which would equate to greatest players ever.

Examples:

Tier 1
Kobe
Bird
Durant
Shaq
Lebron
etc

But....there was only 1 guy who was in a Tier all by himself called Out Of This World......Jordan

We simply cannot underestimate what he could do

[Goat Milk]

True Hman. Jordan in a league by himself. Just think Jordan would be going after rings and not 45 a game. He'd need to play with 2 other stars that both need their shots and touches. Pippen wasn't really a superstar, barely needed to take shots, whereas Ant Davis, he won't be ok with 12 shots a game. Rodman didn't even need to touch the ball, that kind of player like him or Ben Wallace if kinda rare.

Love is not going to the hall of fame. Is that a joke bro?

Not sure man. 18 and 11 for his career. Multiple rebounding titles. 1 championship. 1 gold medal. Has made some all NBA teams. I think these next 3 years will dictate his fate. There was a time when we were calling K Love one of the top 3 or 4 PFs in the NBA. He's on the outside looking in right now, but what if he wins another ring as the 3rd option? K Love still has game man, that guy is a good player. Teams are dumb not to take him. Pops 3s and grabs 10-15 rebounds.

[stevenash]

This is Kevin Love.

Season	Tm	Pos	G	GS	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2008-09	MIN	C	81	37	3.9	8.5	0.459	0	0.2	0.105	3.9	8.3	0.469	0.461	3.3	4.1	0.789	3.4	5.7	9.1	1	0.4	0.6	1.5	2.5	11.1
2009-10	MIN	PF	60	22	4.9	10.8	0.45	0.6	1.8	0.33	4.3	9	0.474	0.478	3.8	4.6	0.815	3.8	7.2	11	2.3	0.7	0.4	2	2.3	14
2010-11	MIN	PF	73	73	6.6	14.1	0.47	1.2	2.9	0.417	5.4	11.2	0.483	0.513	5.8	6.8	0.85	4.5	10.7	15.2	2.5	0.6	0.4	2.1	2	20.2
2011-12	MIN	PF	55	55	8.6	19.3	0.448	1.9	5.1	0.372	6.7	14.1	0.475	0.497	6.9	8.4	0.824	4.1	9.2	13.3	2	0.9	0.5	2.3	2.8	26
2012-13	MIN	PF	18	18	5.8	16.6	0.352	1.1	5.1	0.217	4.7	11.4	0.413	0.386	5.6	7.9	0.704	3.6	10.4	14	2.3	0.7	0.5	2.2	1.9	18.3
2013-14	MIN	PF	77	77	8.4	18.5	0.457	2.5	6.6	0.376	6	11.9	0.502	0.524	6.8	8.2	0.821	2.9	9.6	12.5	4.4	0.8	0.5	2.5	1.8	26.1
2014-15	CLE	PF	75	75	5.5	12.7	0.434	1.9	5.2	0.367	3.6	7.5	0.48	0.509	3.4	4.3	0.804	1.9	7.9	9.7	2.2	0.7	0.5	1.6	1.9	16.4
2015-16	CLE	PF	77	77	5.3	12.7	0.419	2.1	5.7	0.36	3.3	7	0.467	0.499	3.4	4.1	0.822	1.9	8	9.9	2.4	0.8	0.5	1.8	2.1	16
2016-17	CLE	PF	60	60	6.2	14.5	0.427	2.4	6.5	0.373	3.8	8	0.471	0.51	4.3	4.9	0.871	2.5	8.6	11.1	1.9	0.9	0.4	2	2.1	19
2017-18	CLE	C	59	59	5.7	12.4	0.458	2.3	5.6	0.415	3.3	6.8	0.494	0.552	4	4.5	0.88	1.7	7.5	9.3	1.7	0.7	0.4	1.5	2	17.6
2018-19	CLE	PF	22	21	5	12.9	0.385	2.4	6.7	0.361	2.5	6.2	0.412	0.479	4.7	5.2	0.904	1.5	9.4	10.9	2.2	0.3	0.2	1.9	2.5	17
2019-20	CLE	PF	56	56	5.8	13	0.45	2.6	7	0.374	3.2	6	0.537	0.55	3.3	3.9	0.854	1	8.8	9.8	3.2	0.6	0.3	2.5	1.6	17.6
Career			713	630	6	13.6	0.442	1.7	4.6	0.37	4.3	8.9	0.48	0.506	4.5	5.4	0.828	2.8	8.4	11.1	2.4	0.7	0.5	2	2.1	18.2
6 seasons	MIN		364	282	6.4	14.1	0.451	1.2	3.3	0.362	5.2	10.8	0.479	0.494	5.3	6.4	0.815	3.7	8.5	12.2	2.5	0.7	0.5	2.1	2.2	19.2
6 seasons	CLE		349	348	5.6	13	0.433	2.2	6	0.375	3.4	7	0.482	0.519	3.7	4.4	0.848	1.8	8.2	10	2.3	0.7	0.4	1.9	2	17.2

Who's this?

Season	Pos	G	GS	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2010-11	PF	82	82	8.5	16.8	0.506	0.1	0.3	0.292	8.4	16.5	0.51	0.508	5.4	8.5	0.642	3.3	8.8	12.1	3.8	0.8	0.5	2.7	3.1	22.5
2011-12	PF	66	66	8.5	15.5	0.549	0	0.2	0.125	8.5	15.2	0.556	0.55	3.7	7.1	0.521	3.3	7.6	10.9	3.2	0.8	0.7	2.3	3.3	20.7
2012-13	PF	80	80	7.2	13.4	0.538	0.1	0.4	0.179	7.2	13.1	0.548	0.541	3.5	5.3	0.66	2.3	6	8.3	3.7	1.2	0.6	2.3	2.9	18
2013-14	PF	80	80	9	17	0.528	0.2	0.6	0.273	8.8	16.4	0.537	0.533	6	8.4	0.715	2.4	7.1	9.5	3.9	1.2	0.6	2.8	3.3	24.1
2014-15	PF	67	67	8.6	17.1	0.502	0.1	0.4	0.4	8.4	16.7	0.504	0.506	4.6	6.4	0.728	1.9	5.7	7.6	5.3	0.9	0.5	2.3	2.9	21.9
2015-16	PF	35	35	8.6	17.2	0.499	0.2	0.5	0.333	8.4	16.7	0.504	0.504	4	5.5	0.727	1.5	6.9	8.4	4.9	0.8	0.5	2.4	2.7	21.4
2016-17	PF	61	61	7.9	15.9	0.493	0.6	1.9	0.336	7.2	14.1	0.514	0.513	5.2	6.9	0.76	1.8	6.3	8.1	4.9	0.9	0.4	2.3	2.6	21.6
2017-18	PF	58	58	7.5	17.2	0.438	1.9	5.6	0.345	5.6	11.6	0.482	0.493	4.5	5.7	0.785	1.3	6.1	7.4	5.8	0.7	0.3	2.8	2.4	21.4
2017-18	PF	33	33	7.7	17.5	0.441	1.9	5.7	0.342	5.8	11.8	0.488	0.497	5.2	6.6	0.785	1.4	6.5	7.9	5.4	0.9	0.3	3	2.4	22.6
2017-18	PF	25	25	7.2	16.7	0.433	1.9	5.4	0.348	5.4	11.3	0.473	0.489	3.5	4.4	0.784	1.1	5.6	6.6	6.2	0.4	0.4	2.6	2.4	19.8
2018-19	PF	75	75	8.3	17.9	0.462	2.5	7	0.362	5.7	10.9	0.525	0.532	5.5	7.3	0.753	1.3	6.2	7.5	5.4	0.7	0.4	3.4	2.7	24.5
2019-20	PF	18	18	4.9	13.9	0.352	1.5	6.2	0.243	3.4	7.7	0.439	0.406	4.2	5.4	0.776	0.9	3.7	4.7	3.3	0.4	0.4	2.2	1.5	15.5
Career		622	622	8.1	16.3	0.498	0.7	2	0.333	7.5	14.3	0.521	0.518	4.8	6.9	0.694	2.2	6.7	8.8	4.4	0.9	0.5	2.6	2.9	21.7

[Goat Milk]

That's a tough one Nash.

Blake Griffin would be my guess at first glance, especially based on the high rebound numbers to start and then the tough year this year w the injruies, not sure tho.

[stevenash]

Good call.
It’s Blake.