Horse racing

[slayer14]

Is it a bankroll killer and mugs game or can you actually sustain long term profit from horse racing.

[jjgold]

Bankroll Killer

A few guys might break even with bi rebates

[str]

Is it a bankroll killer and mugs game or can you actually sustain long term profit from horse racing.

You CAN sustain a long term profit from horse racing . But... you must put forth the long hours of time that it will take.

I have spoken about this multiple times in my thread in the horse racing section here. The thread is long but using a keyword search within the thread with words like professional gambler, etc. will point you to the answers.

The reality of simple gambling though, is that many just want action. Pick a side and you have it. The dedication needed to beat the races is nothing like that. You need patience, discipline, and a willingness to achieve long term. That right there will eliminate many.

The title of my thread is "Horse racing questions and answers". Once you see it, feel free to ask any questions you have. I will do my best to answer them for you.

Good luck.

[Jayvegas420]

With the exception of bingo I believe horse racing levies the largest juice

[slayer14]

Is the stat still around 33 percent horse racing favs win

[RangeFinder]

You CAN sustain a long term profit from horse racing . But... you must put forth the long hours of time that it will take.

I have spoken about this multiple times in my thread in the horse racing section here. The thread is long but using a keyword search within the thread with words like professional gambler, etc. will point you to the answers.

The reality of simple gambling though, is that many just want action. Pick a side and you have it. The dedication needed to beat the races is nothing like that. You need patience, discipline, and a willingness to achieve long term. That right there will eliminate many.

The title of my thread is "Horse racing questions and answers". Once you see it, feel free to ask any questions you have. I will do my best to answer them for you.

Good luck.

Great post!

Like any form of gaming you have to achieve an edge and beat the takeout. Horseracing has become very difficult to achieve an edge in the win place show pools because it is publicly known that to win long term you have to play overlays. There are very few and if there are it is very little. Many guys doing it for a living are now strictly into the Pick 6 pools and maybe the Pick 5. They can play large tickets with an edge that the average person cannot afford so they can scrape up dead money.

My only suggestion is to be very patient in the win pools and try to find Pick 6 cards that you really like and invest in it. You will have to have a large bankroll though the rewards are worth it when you take one down a large pool with a couple of tickets that win with it.

It's not a bet every race attitude at all.

[JBEX]

even though I only pick individual horses I believe there's a lot of inefficiences in the horizontal and vertical pools..even though they have higher vig the former have payoffs over time I believe that exceed the parlay price..also when 5th or lower odds come in the money in verticals those payoffs are often higher than they should be based on crist's formula which I've discussed in my thread..also lower base bets and more favorable tax laws with these bets help out a lot..just my opinion and realize not everybody's on board with this stuff

[Foxx]

You can definitely play profitably on the exchanges. Of course, that's not available to everyone.

With top level rebates or close to top level, the parimutuel game is beatable. If you bet more than 500,000 a year, you should be able to command near top level rebates.

Even with exchanges and good rebates, you still need to find an edge and maintain it. Easier said than done, but it's doable.

[Foxx]

even though I only pick individual horses I believe there's a lot of inefficiences in the horizontal and vertical pools..

They have recently begun publishing the trifecta probables. Where in a 10 horse field, there is only 1 probable grid for exacta payoffs, there is 10 grids being shown for trifectas, 1 for each horse. It's tough to process the info without software, but it's available now and no doubt will lead to the trifecta prices becoming much sharper.

[Foxx]

Certainly tournaments and contests are beatable too.

[slayer14]

14:55
Single
Lost

1 The Wolf

(Win or Each Way)
6/4
14:55 Bangor-on-Dee


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£0.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





14:44
Single
Won

1 River Frost

(Top 2 Finish)
7/4
14:45 Ayr


Stake
£28.00
Returns
£77.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





14:35
Single
Lost

1 De Name Evades Me

(Win or Each Way)
11/4
14:35 Exeter


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£0.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





14:24
Single
Lost

1 Dino Boy

(Win or Each Way)
6/4
14:25 Bangor-on-Dee


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£0.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





14:15
Single
Won

1 Aurora Thunder

(Top 3 Finish)
11/10
14:15 Ayr


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£42.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





14:04
Single
Lost

1 Sea Venture

(Win or Each Way)
11/4
14:05 Greyville


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£0.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





13:49
Single
Won

1 Kayf Adventure

(Top 3 Finish)
6/5
13:50 Bangor-on-Dee


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£44.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





13:39
Single
Lost

1 Lossiemouth

(Win or Each Way)
4/5
13:40 Ayr


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£0.00

CASH OUT
£0.00





13:30
Single
Won

1 Noble Joshua

(Top 2 Finish)
5/4
13:30 Greyville


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£45.00

15:08
Single
Won

Esprit Du Large

(Win or Each Way)
9/4
15:05 Exeter


Stake
£20.00
Returns
£65.00

[floridagolfer]

It's not a bet every race attitude at all.

Few people realize this and automatically put themselves at a disadvantage when they go to the track and think they should bet all 10 races. Play your two or three best bets. Of course, this takes great discipline.

[JBEX]

They have recently begun publishing the trifecta probables. Where in a 10 horse field, there is only 1 probable grid for exacta payoffs, there is 10 grids being shown for trifectas, 1 for each horse. It's tough to process the info without software, but it's available now and no doubt will lead to the trifecta prices becoming much sharper.

interesting.. yes if software is put in use by high rollers that'd end or severely lessen the advantage with triples

[jjgold]

But you’re forgetting many races are not legit even big race tracks jockeys hold back horses it’s basically official fixing

[littlekona]

interesting.. yes if software is put in use by high rollers that'd end or severely lessen the advantage with triples

the software is very interesting and I believe a lot of it comes from an offshore site that is linked in to the Pari Mutual pools. They pay big rebates too I have heard.

[biggie12]

IMO as a owner of several horses its nearly impossible to beat takeout.

Having alot of info, knowing the morning walkers, trainers, jockey tendacies will only minimally improve your chances.

There is lots of cheating, using drugs that are not banned but in grey area.

I aggree with FOX that the betting exchanges can be beaten, but again not by winning straight up by arbitrage betting. i havent dabbled too much in the exchange betting. I have enough reason to want my horses to win without betting on them. we were down over 6 figures at the start of november, not having a good year.

[str]

But you’re forgetting many races are not legit even big race tracks jockeys hold back horses it’s basically official fixing

Just Stop !

Having participated in well over 7,000 races in my career, are you suggesting that I was in on a fix at some point or allowed a jockey to do that to my horse?
And don't even start with, well maybe you didn't know. I saw every move every rider made on my horses and if that had ever occurred I would have been all over it.

[pologq]

my dad is big into horse racing more than sports.

his biggest mistake to me is betting every race just cause there is a race as others mention.

2nd biggest mistake he makes is not betting win and place and only on exactas. plenty of times the horse he really likes won but he doesn't have the 2nd horse and has no profit from the race.

his 3rd biggest mistake is keying on a horse and wheeling it with a lot of other horses in his exacta box. combine this with the 2nd mistake and it hurts worse.

[JBEX]

my dad is big into horse racing more than sports.

his biggest mistake to me is betting every race just cause there is a race as others mention.

2nd biggest mistake he makes is not betting win and place and only on exactas. plenty of times the horse he really likes won but he doesn't have the 2nd horse and has no profit from the race.

his 3rd biggest mistake is keying on a horse and wheeling it with a lot of other horses in his exacta box. combine this with the 2nd mistake and it hurts worse.

agree with all that you said

[grekos]

You CAN sustain a long term profit from horse racing . But... you must put forth the long hours of time that it will take.

I have spoken about this multiple times in my thread in the horse racing section here. The thread is long but using a keyword search within the thread with words like professional gambler, etc. will point you to the answers.

The reality of simple gambling though, is that many just want action. Pick a side and you have it. The dedication needed to beat the races is nothing like that. You need patience, discipline, and a willingness to achieve long term. That right there will eliminate many.

The title of my thread is "Horse racing questions and answers". Once you see it, feel free to ask any questions you have. I will do my best to answer them for you.

Good luck.

This is from an expert on horse racing but doesn't gamble,hey str why don't you post a winner if what you say is true or better yet go post in the horse racing forum and leave this forum alone.

[biggie12]

Just Stop !

Having participated in well over 7,000 races in my career, are you suggesting that I was in on a fix at some point or allowed a jockey to do that to my horse?
And don't even start with, well maybe you didn't know. I saw every move every rider made on my horses and if that had ever occurred I would have been all over it.

Str you must be really naive if you dont think none of this happens daily weekly.

[littlekona]

my dad is big into horse racing more than sports.

his biggest mistake to me is betting every race just cause there is a race as others mention.

2nd biggest mistake he makes is not betting win and place and only on exactas. plenty of times the horse he really likes won but he doesn't have the 2nd horse and has no profit from the race.

his 3rd biggest mistake is keying on a horse and wheeling it with a lot of other horses in his exacta box. combine this with the 2nd mistake and it hurts worse.

my dad was same very selective would hang out at OTB all day and maybe make a handful bets...Also he would never bet ODDS on Chalks...Back in the pre simulcast free for all era you could study and focus more since you only had the one circuit to bet on with half hour between races to boot

[str]

Str you must be really naive if you dont think none of this happens daily weekly.

Biggie, I did not say that it doesn't happen. But it sure as hell did not happen on my horses. That is not naive, that's a fact.

Jj's quote was : But you’re forgetting many races are not legit even big race tracks jockeys hold back horses it’s basically official fixing

Many races are not legit? Many? How many? The definition of many is " a large number". Like 1/2 the card?

And even at big tracks? Really biggie? like a 60k purse which is a middle of the road purse these days. Where the rider makes 3600 for winning without betting but risks that to bet? C'mon. It's simple math. Riders at major tracks are making a fortune. They aren't beating around trying to bet 50 across the board.

Does it occur at La. Downs and crap spots like that? Yep. Sure does. I will not defend all tracks and I will definitely not defend all people within horse racing. Plenty along the way made me sick. Some still do.

[littlekona]

Biggie, I did not say that it doesn't happen. But it sure as hell did not happen on my horses. That is not naive, that's a fact.

Jj's quote was : But you’re forgetting many races are not legit even big race tracks jockeys hold back horses it’s basically official fixing

Many races are not legit? Many? How many? The definition of many is " a large number". Like 1/2 the card?

And even at big tracks? Really biggie? like a 60k purse which is a middle of the road purse these days. Where the rider makes 3600 for winning without betting but risks that to bet? C'mon. It's simple math. Riders at major tracks are making a fortune. They aren't beating around trying to bet 50 across the board.

Does it occur at La. Downs and crap spots like that? Yep. Sure does. I will not defend all tracks and I will definitely not defend all people within horse racing. Plenty along the way made me sick. Some still do.

with the modern day tote, camera's and so many people watching every detail of each race it is becoming near very difficult to get away with fixing the races...The industry is moving closer and closer to a japan style steward system where everything is transparent and punishments are common for small infractions read this about David Flores and comments too.... https://www.paulickreport.com/news/p...pore-stewards/

[Ph q all]

Kona I hope you are correct. However it is my belief that anytime money is involved that there are people somehow collecting ill-gotten gains.

[str]

Kona I hope you are correct. However it is my belief that anytime money is involved that there are people somehow collecting ill-gotten gains.

Completely agree.

We see this , like you said, wherever there is money. But in today's racing not nearly to the depth and scope that JJ presented which is why I responded to him the way I did.

[unusialsusp5]

This is from an expert on horse racing but doesn't gamble,hey str why don't you post a winner if what you say is true or better yet go post in the horse racing forum and leave this forum alone.

it is a very bad idea to discredit str. has more astute horse racing knowledge than everyone else here combined.

[jjgold]

There’s not enough money in horseracing for jockeys to make money so they have to play games a lot

Purses very small most tracks and jocks make small % off winning

[unusialsusp5]

There’s not enough money in horseracing for jockeys to make money so they have to play games a lot

Purses very small most tracks and jocks make small % off winning

wow, that is just not so. purses have skyrocketed everywhere and jocks are doing just fine and do not bet.

[Foxx]

interesting.. yes if software is put in use by high rollers that'd end or severely lessen the advantage with triples

At least making it available to everyone gets rid of the probably false notion it has always been available to a select few. And you don't have to be a high roller to process the data, you just need to know how to program a computer. More transparency and a more level playing field with equal access to data is always a good thing in my book.

[grekos]

it is a very bad idea to discredit str. has more astute horse racing knowledge than everyone else here combined.

He's a fraud,first he says there isn't fixing now he says,' well it happens at some places. Total waffle head and he starts off telling how to make money with horses and gambling but doesnt do it himself,ask mister know it all how many grade 1 races he won in his 7000 race carrer before you start kissing his arse.

[unusialsusp5]

He's a fraud,first he says there isn't fixing now he says,' well it happens at some places. Total waffle head and he starts off telling how to make money with horses and gambling but doesnt do it himself,ask mister know it all how many grade 1 races he won in his 7000 race carrer before you start kissing his arse.

he trained before there were any grade I races. he does not claim to be a horse race betting expert although he has sound approaches in that area. he never said race fixing didn't happen. he just wasn't involved in it. was a mainstay in the mid atlantic region but that was in the 60's and 70's. wanting him to post a winner just shows your absolute lack of knowledge in the sport.

[grekos]

your'e either ignorant or just dumb,did you read his first post on how to get an edge on gambling?

[BigdaddyQH]

But you’re forgetting many races are not legit even big race tracks jockeys hold back horses it’s basically official fixing

Wrong. Many jockeys are told by the horses trainer that if the horse has no chance, save him/her. Pull up. 9th is as good as 6th. A good jockey will know what his horse has one furlong into the event. The smart ones will save their mounts for another day. The average fan is not educated enough in the sport to see this. JJ, you are a perfect example of the average fan.

[unusialsusp5]

your'e either ignorant or just dumb,did you read his first post on how to get an edge on gambling?

yes, he merely stated you can make a long term profit if you put in the time. that's an accurate statement. he didn't mention how. he can defend himself against the likes of a knowledge less know nothing like you.