Johan Santana...

[MinnesotaFats]

Goes into Twins HOF

Is he national baseball HOF worthy?

[BestPlay2day]

Not even close and I’m a big Twins fan. Career record of 139 wins and 78 losses. He needed at least 100 more wins to be considered for the HOF.

[shocka1212]

Goes into Twins HOF

Is he national baseball HOF worthy?

he was pretty damn good. I remember when Arod was shitting the bed round 05-06, I wanted the yanks to trade him to Minny for Johan and Tory hunter.

[The Giant]

He was the best pitcher in baseball for a few years, but only a few years. He doesn't have the longevity for the Hall of Fame.

[Regul8er]

Agree with everyone above, lack of longevity was the issue. He needed to replicate his prime numbers for another 5 or 6 years.

[2daBank]

Not even close and I’m a big Twins fan. Career record of 139 wins and 78 losses. He needed at least 100 more wins to be considered for the HOF.

I’m not sure I agree w that. Really not sure if it factual or not far as there having to be a number achieved to be considered?

I think that if a guy was great enough for a shorter period he could absolutely be a HOFer without having the longevity it takes to compile that many wins. When they let compilers in it turns into the hall of pretty good and not the HOF.

I’m not speaking directly to Santana’s case, I’d have to dig into some numbers to say. Just in general I think 7-8 years of incredible dominance should be looked upon more favorably over 15-20 years of pretty good. Just way I look at it.

[shocka1212]

Agree with everyone above, lack of longevity was the issue. He needed to replicate his prime numbers for another 5 or 6 years.

not his fault he had to wear a mets jersey. no one can overcome that

[ans61201]

Don’t think he did it long enough, but the person above with the comments about wins, the stat itself isn’t going to hold much value moving forward. I’d say 200 or even 150 being the new 300 very soon

[MinnesotaFats]

I’m not sure I agree w that. Really not sure if it factual or not far as there having to be a number achieved to be considered?

I think that if a guy was great enough for a shorter period he could absolutely be a HOFer without having the longevity it takes to compile that many wins. When they let compilers in it turns into the hall of pretty good and not the HOF.

I’m not speaking directly to Santana’s case, I’d have to dig into some numbers to say. Just in general I think 7-8 years of incredible dominance should be looked upon more favorably over 15-20 years of pretty good. Just way I look at it.

This was my thoughts.

That 8 year span he lead the league in everything, was to 5 CYA every year.

His "black ink" indicates that he us a HOFer... but there is that longevity issue...thou his .680 win % should account for something

[2daBank]

Agree with everyone above, lack of longevity was the issue. He needed to replicate his prime numbers for another 5 or 6 years.

I just think shorter periods of greatness should be weighed more heavily than 15+ years of good. Nothing against guys that grinded out solid 15+ year careers but imo putting in slightly above average players that were able to stay healthy and do it longer really diminishes what the HOF should be imo.

[MinnesotaFats]

Can say the same about another Twin, Tony Oliva.

From 64-72 guy was maybe best hitter in baseball.

No love thou

[JAKEPEAVY21]

No. He was dominant for around 5 years. Agree with others saying he needed more years of dominance and more accumulated stats(wins).

[packerd_00]

No I wouldnt put him in personally.

[trytrytry]

he had one off the charts incredible season didnt he lower is ERA in every start after the all star game or soemthing like that

he had 3 superior seasons
and deserves that Twins ring of honor.

but thats about it.

really liked him here, would go to the dome specifically to see him pitch

[2daBank]

he had one off the charts incredible season didnt he lower is ERA in every start after the all star game or soemthing like that

he had 3 superior seasons
and deserves that Twins ring of honor.

but thats about it.

really liked him here, would go to the dome specifically to see him pitch

I would have to really investigate his numbers to say one way or other, just don’t agree with the guys who want accumulators in over shorter periods of greatness, to me those accumulators belong in hall of very good not the HOF. I do recall same as you, he was box office for a period of time, just filthy stuff on the Pedro Martinez level that I just loved to watch pitch.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

In fairness, OP believes that ex-Viking TE, Steve Jordan, belongs in the HOF. I'd love trytrytry and other Minn residents/homers to give their opinion on this.

Santana is a hell of a lot more worthy than Jordan for HOF consideration but he will still fall well short.

[Regul8er]

Ive always associated the HOF with being the best at your position (or top couple) over an era. Being near the top for the part of an era just doesn't sound the same....doesnt sound HOF. Looking at this stats, he was great between 2003 and 2010, but nothing to hang his hat on before of after that. No World Series appearance, only one postseason win. I say excellent career, but not a HOF career.

[unde0087]

No. He was dominant for around 5 years. Agree with others saying he needed more years of dominance and more accumulated stats(wins).

The only thing that held that guy back was he was playing for the Twins. He pitched when they had jack shit for an offense and even when they got a guy they traded him away instantly.

I did enjoy watching him pitch. I loved when he was traded to the Mets. Never forget that no hitter he threw on ESPN, even though it shouldn't have been that hit down the line was fair but called foul. Still great pitcher. I would say if he would have pitched for a team like the Yankees he would have easily racked up 10 times the wins.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

The only thing that held that guy back was he was playing for the Twins. He pitched when they had jack shit for an offense and even when they got a guy they traded him away instantly.

I did enjoy watching him pitch. I loved when he was traded to the Mets. Never forget that no hitter he threw on ESPN, even though it shouldn't have been that hit down the line was fair but called foul. Still great pitcher. I would say if he would have pitched for a team like the Yankees he would have easily racked up 10 times the wins.

He was awesome and the best pitcher in baseball for a few years...in the end, as stated earlier, he simply did not stack up enough stats or continue the dominance for long enough.

[packerd_00]

Would you put his career accolades up against Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez,dont believe so.

[thereikid]

Borderline but I lean toward no because the body of work was not that long. But for a few years he was dominant and was a joy to watch.

[BIGDAY]

Was fun to watch.

Between him and Liriano that one year. Was SICK.

[ans61201]

Was fun to watch.

Between him and Liriano that one year. Was SICK.

Man such a weird year when you look back, liariano was unhittable

[2daBank]

Ive always associated the HOF with being the best at your position (or top couple) over an era. Being near the top for the part of an era just doesn't sound the same....doesnt sound HOF. Looking at this stats, he was great between 2003 and 2010, but nothing to hang his hat on before of after that. No World Series appearance, only one postseason win. I say excellent career, but not a HOF career.

I have never thought whether you played on a winning team in mlb should matter as no one person can carry a team to postseason (they can carry a postseason, see mad bum). Lots of baseball greats didn’t sniff postseason, doesn’t matter., lot of guys in the hof were never best of their time, just accumulated numbers through longevity, which sure is impressive but I think putting that type in hall diminishes it to a degree.

[MinnesotaFats]

No. He was dominant for around 5 years. Agree with others saying he needed more years of dominance and more accumulated stats(wins).

So what about Kaufax and Drysdale?

Santana has equal figures in "black Ink" tonSandy and better stats than Don

[MinnesotaFats]

Man such a weird year when you look back, liariano was unhittable

Yeah but every time liriano pitched a ball you thought his arm was going to break in half. Just waiting for the injury...

[2daBank]

Yeah but every time liriano pitched a ball you thought his arm was going to break in half. Just waiting for the injury...

Francisco did a amazing job extending his career as long as he has. God he was a nightmare for the cardinals when he went to pirates back when cards were still perennial playoff contenders. I made a bunch on him vs cards!!

[BuckyOne]

circle-change was his pitch