Myths, Lies and Stupidity About Health Care: Why Obama Care is a Bad Idea

[obama our lord]

http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/myths-lies-and-stupidity-about-health-care-why-obama-care-is-a-bad-idea/

Excellent article!!


Bottom line: Why Obama’s National Healthcare Plan is Bad


-300 million people already have healthcare


-Only 46 million people DON”T have healthcare


-Of those 46 million:


-10 million are illegal immigrants


-9 million have incomes over $75, 000/year and either CHOOSE not to have healthcare or don’t have it for 6 months or less


-12 million are eligible for Medicaid and State Children’s Health Insurance program – but they haven’t signed up


Therefore,


Of the 46 million “uninsured”, a solid 31 million are uninsured in ways that require NO FIX from the federal government. That leaves 15 million.


A Nationalized health care plan of the sort Obama proposes therefore shifts health care for literally 95% of the population on behalf of 5% of the American population – 5% who, like illegal immigrants, receive emergency care under federal law.

[robzilla]

-Of those 46 million:


-10 million are illegal immigrants

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

So you want these people, you just dont want to provide them with healthcare?

[Fishhead]

Stay healthy........forget health insurance.

Also, don't insure your home and do not carry collision insurance...............INSURANCE is a total waste of money.................


LIVE LIFE!!!!

[L2Gunz]

fukk Obama and everything that idiot stands for!!!!

fukk his stupid wife too...she smells like shit!!!!

[obama our lord]

fukk his stupid wife too...she smells like shit!!!!

In defense of her, I bet she could post up and make some killer power moves in the lane. Maybe she could help the Clippers...

[L2Gunz]

In defense of her, I bet she could post up and make some killer power moves in the lane. Maybe she could help the Clippers...

I bet she can pin Sammy in a Roman-Greco Wrestling match

[MartinBlank]

OOL, where the hell is my pizza? I ordered it two hours ago. Get off the computer and get your ass to work at Dominoes.

[obama our lord]

OOL, where the hell is my pizza? I ordered it two hours ago. Get off the computer and get your ass to work at Dominoes.

What's this deal about pizza?

[MartinBlank]

OOL I have noticed that you like to regurg conservative opinions about the number of uninsured in this country....and the number breakdown you use is the same one being peddled by every single conservative talking head that originated with Mark Levin.

Here's the problem, and one that won't be able to address...seeing as though you have very little original thought.

Levin and the neocons are using a number of 15% of Americans that are without health insurance, yet 10% of Americans are currently unemployed---eliminating their employer purchased health care. Employer sponsored programs account for nearly 75% of insurance programs for Americans. If unemployment climbs (and it will), the number of uninsured Americans will also rise.

The Department of Labor numbers include 15.2 million Americans are jobless, and another 19.5 million Americans are employed part-time making them ineligible for Employer-run programs.

For an umemployed American the average cost of a COBRA policy for a family of four is 1200/month.

The unemployment numbers are not used in Obama's outline, but they are used in GAO estimates. Conservatives will readily cite the cost of Obama's program, but they ignore the GAO's estimation of uninsured or underinsured Americans of 51.8 million. That doesn't surprise me.

[obama our lord]

The unemployment numbers are not used in Obama's outline, but they are used in GAO estimates. Conservatives will readily cite the cost of Obama's program, but they ignore the GAO's estimation of uninsured or underinsured Americans of 51.8 million. That doesn't surprise me.

Without even arguing your premise, that's less than 20% of the population, and all have access to emergency care.

So we are supposed raise taxes and compromise health care for 80% of the population so that everyone in the Country now falls into the same crappy rationed health care system?

[BrentCrude]

I got my education on the health care debacle by being a sucker and Mr.nice guy driving old geezer relatives to the clinic for trivial problems that didn't need attention where Medicare entitlement paid the Price is Right,overinflated suggested retail price for the unneeded medical attention they got.Hell,the care and pills they received was not only unneeded,it probably led to their deaths at a quicker pace than if they would have stayed away from the doctor.

So that hour or so I had to wait for the relatives in the parking lot of the clinic,I witnessed the complete story as to why socialized health care is a terrible idea.All the fat ugly local white girls that had numerous babies from multiple fathers who were recruited 5 states away to play junior college football and basketball were hauling their broods in the clinic everyday for the sniffles.They are all on welfare and every alphabet soup program known to mankind with those initials like WIC,AFDC yada yada yada because daddy abandoned them and went back to the hood. Hell,who am I kidding,they didn't even know if the guy from Watts knocked them up or the one from Camden New Jersey did.

The moral of the story is,when you are playing with the house's money,who cares if you spend it all and lose.When something is for nothing,why not take advantage of taking it even if you don't need it.I call it the feed the weeds and kill the grass syndrome.Punish people working in the private sector who pay too many taxes who never use and abuse the system.It's like the lion tamer giving the lion a steak when the lion attacks him and hitting him with a chair and shooting a pistol towards him when he did the trick he was asked to do.We don't need some socialist, if it feels good do it,Obama running things,we need a guy like Ward Cleaver chewing all the entitlement people,bailout deadbeat companies,municipal workers unions,American auto workers union members who are always looking for special treatment and freebie handouts.When these idiot groups bankrupt us and ran everything in the ground,Ward would send them to their room without dinner and say, you are grounded and will have to pay for what you stole with your allowance for doing chores and money from odd jobs.He would say he was doing it for their own good and that they will learn a valuable lesson from their mistakes.

Ward Cleaver for president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The whole deal in a nutshell is,this country spent it's way into bankruptcy because of our progressive socialist ways for the last 100 years.That has caused the U.S.A to be uncompetitive where you don't manufacture or produce anything here.So when you lose all the ability to actually produce anything,you have to manufacture and concoct makework keynesian industries out of thin air like the medical industry and environmental global warming,greenie industry.Just look at all the kids graduating as to what professions they are taking up.It's all worthless public service crap.Everything from homeland security narks to caretakers for drug addicts,care takers or councilors for people with iiratable bowel syndrome to community organizers,to poet laureates.You can hoard them all up in a giant hot air balloon and let them blow away and no one know they are missing.In fact,I would have a bounty where you pay the vast majority of people working in the public sector a couple hundred grand if they promise never to work at any type of job supported by tax payer money.The government has to encourage abuse of the system,missmanagement of government programs etc.to keep the economy afloat.Same goes for the military where it's just a massive cash cow where you just keep wasting money to keep people employed.

[MartinBlank]

Without even arguing your premise, that's less than 20% of the population, and all have access to emergency care.

So we are supposed raise taxes and compromise health care for 80% of the population so that everyone in the Country now falls into the same crappy rationed health care system?

Again, you offer nothing but some ridiculous doomsday scenario.

Are current Medicare patients on a "rationed" health care system? They are not. Why would we need to ration health care? Oh I know...because conservatives are telling you that.

Let me ask you this. Both political parties are stupid....but do you really believe the Dems and Obama would structure a program that would piss off 80% of Americans? I guarantee you they would not.

Say what you want about Obama.....he is a brilliant politician, and he wouldn't create a program that would eliminate choice or create a rationed system.

The bottom line that you continue to avoid is what creating a health care program would mean to the GOP. It would be their death. The Democrats will be the party that brought affordable health care to American families...and the GOP can't allow that to happen. Every electon cycle the Dems would run on that alone, and the GOP wouldn't have the political savy to pull this back.

Fighting this health care plan is about GOP survival. It is the same reason southern conservative opposed civil rights legislation in the 60's. They knew once you gave blacks equal protection, their version of this country was over.

Same with health care. If Obama gives Americans health care, the days of GOP control are over for a very very long time.

[MartinBlank]

The whole deal in a nutshell is,this country spent it's way into bankruptcy because of our progressive socialist ways for the last 100 years.That has caused the U.S.A to be uncompetitive where you don't manufacture or produce anything here.So when you lose all the ability to actually produce anything,you have to manfufacture and concoct makework keynesian industries out of thin air like the medical industry and environmental global warming,greenie industry.[/QUOTE]

One question.

What exactly did our social programs take away that would have allowed our manufacturing companies to compete with Asians paying their workers 12 cents/day?

Explain how RCA could have been able to compete with an Asian company producing tv sets for 1/75th the cost of an American made television?

How about this wacky idea? Stronger import tariffs? No no...can't do that..because then we wouldn't have been able to sell our goods on a global market...oh yeah, we aren't producing any goods these days.

There is nothing in our social programs that could have or would have prevented us from having to compete with foreign companies paying their employees cents/day.

[obama our lord]

Again, you offer nothing but some ridiculous doomsday scenario.

Are current Medicare patients on a "rationed" health care system? They are not. Why would we need to ration health care? Oh I know...because conservatives are telling you that.

Medicare is about bankrupt and nobody is really sure how to fix it. So the answer is simply to extend a program of this type to the population in general? Lunacy

Let me ask you this. Both political parties are stupid....but do you really believe the Dems and Obama would structure a program that would piss off 80% of Americans? I guarantee you they would not.

The problems would not be immediately evident and when they are pernicious enough to be prevalent, the waters would be muddied enough so that the blame would not go where it should.

Say what you want about Obama.....he is a brilliant politician, and he wouldn't create a program that would eliminate choice or create a rationed system.

The bottom line that you continue to avoid is what creating a health care program would mean to the GOP. It would be their death. The Democrats will be the party that brought affordable health care to American families...and the GOP can't allow that to happen. Every electon cycle the Dems would run on that alone, and the GOP wouldn't have the political savy to pull this back.

Fighting this health care plan is about GOP survival. It is the same reason southern conservative opposed civil rights legislation in the 60's. They knew once you gave blacks equal protection, their version of this country was over.

Same with health care. If Obama gives Americans health care, the days of GOP control are over for a very very long time

No doubt it is established and becomes entrenched, it will be almost impossible to remove. The GOP would simply have to assimilate into as it has done with SS. We will become like other countries where the very rich can buy good health care and everyone else will have to accept free crap with higher taxes everywhere.

And that's just it. People will think they are getting a deal because they can go to the doctor for free. But how often do you really need quality care at the doctors? I think I am like most people in that I really haven't needed any quality care, even though I've payed hundreds of dollars a month in insurance. So only those frustrated by not getting that care when they need it see the real problems. And they are a distinct minority. And they are allowed to die and are out of sight and out of mind. And since most (but not nearly all) will probably be elderly, it's just attributed to old age and life goes on.

[bettilimbroke999]

Stay healthy........forget health insurance.

Also, don't insure your home and do not carry collision insurance...............INSURANCE is a total waste of money.................


LIVE LIFE!!!!

Howtoinsurebankruptcy.com

#1 cause of bankruptcy in this country is medical bills, most think credit cards, but far and away its medical bills, when you need help at the hospital they essentially charge you whatever they want and you're sitting there with a broken leg or appendicitis in very lil position to negotiate

[durito]

What kind of health insurance you get from pizza hut?

[durito]

Stay healthy........forget health insurance.

Also, don't insure your home and do not carry collision insurance...............INSURANCE is a total waste of money.................


LIVE LIFE!!!!

i'd have been dead at 22 if i had this attitude

[MartinBlank]

I I think I am like most people in that I really haven't needed any quality care, even though I've payed hundreds of dollars a month in insurance.

That is an interesting line your wrote OOL. You have paid hundreds of dollars a month and have never filed an expensive claim with your insurance company. Yet, your insurance company has used those collected premiums you paid and paid out other claims to patients within the same plan/company.

How is that any different from you being taxed x number of dollars per month for a government run plan?

If you can explain to me any appreciable difference other than some "projected" control of your care, I would like to hear it.

But the bottom line is there isn't any difference. You were taxed by your insurance company..you admittedly paid hundreds of dollars a month and have nothing to show for it, while at the same time said insurance company paid out benefit claims to other patients under their care.

Sounds exactly like the type of program Obama is selling.

Americans pay into a system and buy insurance...the only difference is it is affordable.

[obama our lord]

I I think I am like most people in that I really haven't needed any quality care, even though I've payed hundreds of dollars a month in insurance.

That is an interesting line your wrote OOL. You have paid hundreds of dollars a month and have never filed an expensive claim with your insurance company. Yet, your insurance company has used those collected premiums you paid and paid out other claims to patients within the same plan/company.

How is that any different from you being taxed x number of dollars per month for a government run plan?

It surely is tempting to drop insurance for my family and myself and just take chances. But should something catastrophic happen, I know I can get good care. I don't expect that with Obama's plan.

[MartinBlank]

It surely is tempting to drop insurance for my family and myself and just take chances. But should something catastrophic happen, I know I can get good care. I don't expect that with Obama's plan.

But that's just it. You don't EXPECT IT. But the reality is you don't have anything to base your opinion on, other than your obvious distaste for all things Obama.

My father/law is a medicare patient. He received a heart transplant at Johns Hopkins----his treatment could not have been better. Shocking as it may be to conservatives---Medicare patients are receiving incredible care at the leading hospitals in this country.

His post-op discharge appointents are ridiculous easy for him to navigate. No paperwork. His office visits are routine, no drama, absolutely no complications with his care. How can this be? I am being told gov't programs will eliminate choice and quality....and I was told Americans under any gov't program lack quality.

Nothing Obama has proposed, and certainly nothing you can prove----would lead us to believe that a gov't purchased plan would eliminate that choice for us. You seem to think the Dems will gladly go down a path of self-destruction just to pass this bill-----I think Obama has proven his political strengths---and when this bill passes, the GOP will be dead for the next generation...which like I have said from the beginning of this.....that is what this debate is really about---GOP survival.

[durito]

It surely is tempting to drop insurance for my family and myself and just take chances. But should something catastrophic happen, I know I can get good care. I don't expect that with Obama's plan.

Hey dumb ass.

You realize you can keep your same insurance that you have now. I'm sure it's great coverage on your pizza boy salary.

[obama our lord]

But that's just it. You don't EXPECT IT. But the reality is you don't have anything to base your opinion on, other than your obvious distaste for all things Obama.

One only has to look at the waiting times for special care in countries with socialized medicine. And the rationing. For example, in the UK, no special care will be made available to save an eye if you still have a good eye remaining. I have no idea what kind of rationing will take place here, but you can bet it will be occurring. Am i just supposed to take Obama's word that everything will be just peachy, especially when he has been full of shit about everything else?

My father/law is a medicare patient. He received a heart transplant at Johns Hopkins----his treatment could not have been better. Shocking as it may be to conservatives---Medicare patients are receiving incredible care at the leading hospitals in this country.

His post-op discharge appointents are ridiculous easy for him to navigate. No paperwork. His office visits are routine, no drama, absolutely no complications with his care. How can this be? I am being told gov't programs will eliminate choice and quality....and I was told Americans under any gov't program lack quality.

Nothing Obama has proposed, and certainly nothing you can prove----would lead us to believe that a gov't purchased plan would eliminate that choice for us.

Except that Medicare is just about bankrupt. And now we are supposed to be able to afford Medicare for 100% of the population? And can you tell me any govt "good will" program that has been a success and is solvent?

Every bit of evidence of all past government programs is indicative that this will be a disaster.

[obama our lord]

Hey dumb ass.

You realize you can keep your same insurance that you have now. I'm sure it's great coverage on your pizza boy salary.

Oh so I get to pay for my insurance and pay another several hundred dollars a month for somebody else's health care?

Lucky me.

And what's this deal about pizza?

[bettilimbroke999]

I am not a fan of Obama's healthcare plan, it is wayyyyy too expensive and the poor who are already addicted to drugs will abuse the fuk out of it, every time they stub a toe they'll be at the doctors for another free hydro prescription that they used to pay 6 bucks a pill for. The way it is currently it takes a decade to get an appointment with a doctor and a 3 hour wait even in the emergency room no telling what it would be like if it was free for everyone. Personally Im a bigger fan of having a cut off point for Medicare, I've never understood spending 200k a year on surgeries to keep someone 80 something years old alive and convalescing in a nursing home for a couple more years

[Thor4140]

I guess I'm not as worried as some people claim to be about my Government running a health care option, when I read stories like these... but then, I guess if you're IN the insurance business, I can see why you wouldn't want that option to be available.

Ex-insurance exec confesses health insurers dump sick people
BY JOHN BYRNE
Published: June 25, 2009

A retired health insurance executive — in a shocking but not terribly surprising admission — confessed Wednesday that insurance companies deliberately confuse policyholders and attempt to dump sick patients to plump their profit margins.

“[T]hey confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors,” former Cigna senior executive Wendell Potter told senators at a hearing on health insurance Wednesday before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

“Potter, who has more than 20 years of experience working in public relations for insurance companies Cigna and Humana, said companies routinely drop seriously ill policyholders so they can meet “Wall Street’s relentless profit expectations,’” Potter told the hearing, according to ABC News.

“They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment,” Potter added. “(D)umping a small number of enrollees can have a big effect on the bottom line.”

More details regarding a Senate report follows in an Associated Press story.

Senator: Use of faulty insurance data 'pervasive'

Two-thirds of health insurers used flawed database that overcharged patients, says senator

MATTHEW PERRONE
AP News
Jun 24, 2009 18:42 EST

Congressional investigators said Wednesday two-thirds of the U.S. health insurance industry used a faulty database that overcharged patients for seeing doctors outside their insurance network, costing Americans billions of dollars in inflated medical bills.

The flawed database is operated by Ingenix, a subsidiary of health insurer UnitedHealth Group, which agreed in January to pay $350 million to settle allegations that it deliberately kept rates low to underpay doctors, driving up expenses for patients.

An investigation by Sen. John Rockefeller, D-W.Va., shows that nearly 20 regional and national insurers also used Ingenix data. An ongoing probe by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo previously focused on the use of Ingenix data by only a handful of top insurers, including Aetna, Wellpoint and Cigna. About a dozen insurers, including UnitedHealth, have already reached settlements with Cuomo.

Tuesday's report arrives as President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress step up calls for a public health care option. The idea is vigorously opposed by Republicans and insurance industry executives, who say a public plan would drive private companies out of the marketplace.

More than 100 million Americans have plans that allow them to see doctors who are not part of their insurance network. For more than a decade, insurers submitted data to Ingenix to determine the typical cost for care received outside their networks.

But congressional investigators say companies would deliberately skew data to underestimate the costs of medical services, leaving patients to pay more in out-of-pocket expenses.

"The result of this practice is that American consumers have paid billions of dollars for health care services that their insurance companies should have paid," states the report from the Senate Commerce Committee's investigative staff.

In one case, Aetna allegedly eliminated the highest 20 percent of medical charges before sending the data to Ingenix, according to expert court testimony cited by congressional investigators. Once the data was handed over to Ingenix, officials there "scrubbed" the numbers again to further curb charges, according to the testimony.

Aetna denied the allegations in a statement Wednesday, saying they stem from a lawsuit against another insurance company. Aetna was not party to the case.

A Senate Commerce Committee spokesman stood behind the report's statements, saying they stem from evidence given under oath by Aetna in a court proceeding.

UnitedHealth has admitted no wrongdoing in its handling of Ingenix, though it agreed to close the database and help fund a new one operated by a nonprofit group.

Rockefeller and other lawmakers are pushing for additional changes in the insurance marketplace. A bill from the West Virginia senator, who chairs the Commerce Committee, would compel companies to use simple, standardized language to describe insurance policies.

"Consumers can't challenge insurance company decisions because the companies don't explain terms of coverage in understandable language — I would say deliberately," said Sen. Rockefeller, at a hearing Tuesday.

Former insurance executive Wendell Potter told lawmakers that companies deliberately use difficult language to mislead consumers about the scope of their benefits.

"Insurers know that policyholders are so baffled by those notices they usually just ignore them or throw them away," said Potter, a former Cigna executive. "And that's exactly the point. If they were more understandable, more consumers might realize that they are being ripped off."

Potter urged senators to pass the public health plan proposed by Obama, saying it would bring more transparency and higher quality to the health insurance industry.
__________________

[jon101]

I think both sides are wrong a single payer system that doesn't ration care, and gives incentives for doctors to become primary care physicians is the best way to go.
It covers everyone, and at the same time the doctor reccommends and approves the care.
What conservatives don't admit is care is already rationed because insurance companies determine what procedures you can and can't have costing lives.

[MartinBlank]

One only has to look at the waiting times for special care in countries with socialized medicine. And the rationing. For example, in the UK, no special care will be made available to save an eye if you still have a good eye remaining. I have no idea what kind of rationing will take place here, but you can bet it will be occurring. Am i just supposed to take Obama's word that everything will be just peachy, especially when he has been full of shit about everything else?

Except that Medicare is just about bankrupt. And now we are supposed to be able to afford Medicare for 100% of the population? And can you tell me any govt "good will" program that has been a success and is solvent?

Every bit of evidence of all past government programs is indicative that this will be a disaster.

This is another slippery slope game played by conservatives.

Because Obama is proposing a gov't sponsored health-care bill---suddenly that mandates waiting lines, rationalized health care, and nightmare quality.

And what do they draw this opinion on? European Medicine.

This is kind of a stupid game to play.

I mean---England has a military...so does France...so do we. Are they all equal? Hardly.

Same for education. Both sets of countries have similar education structures...yet they are dramatically different in character and scope.

Why would a United States gov't sponsored program HAVE TO suffer the same pratfalls of French medicine?

The answer is simple. Because conservatives are trying like hell to scare the american public into thinking it will. But press Sean Hannity or RushVicodin, or anyone other "conservative", and they couldn't begin to tell you how medicine works in England. They couldn't cite a specific case of a patient actually dying from their care being rationed..instead they just use this ridiculous rhetoric to scare americans.

[robzilla]

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.


1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

[durito]

I am not a fan of Obama's healthcare plan, it is wayyyyy too expensive and the poor who are already addicted to drugs will abuse the fuk out of it, every time they stub a toe they'll be at the doctors for another free hydro prescription that they used to pay 6 bucks a pill for. The way it is currently it takes a decade to get an appointment with a doctor and a 3 hour wait even in the emergency room no telling what it would be like if it was free for everyone. Personally Im a bigger fan of having a cut off point for Medicare, I've never understood spending 200k a year on surgeries to keep someone 80 something years old alive and convalescing in a nursing home for a couple more years

funny coming from the guy who self admittedly cannot afford health insurance

[durito]

22 Colombia

[jon101]

Wow wonder where Cuba ranks they export medical expertise to South America.

[pico]

if i am poor, i would love some free money. where is my 40 acres and a mule?

[losturmarbles]

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.


1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

so youre trying to prove that the UN is a bunch of dumb fuks that make rankings of health systems based on arbitrary factors like "health inequalities" (disparities), "patient satisfaction", "how well people of varying economic status find that they are served", and "who pays the costs".

4/5 of the factors have dick to do with actual health.

i would be ashamed to be part of country at the top of this list.

besides these rankings are 10 years old and "the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task."

lol

[losturmarbles]

I guess I'm not as worried as some people claim to be about my Government running a health care option, when I read stories like these... but then, I guess if you're IN the insurance business, I can see why you wouldn't want that option to be available.

Ex-insurance exec confesses health insurers dump sick people
BY JOHN BYRNE
Published: June 25, 2009

A retired health insurance executive — in a shocking but not terribly surprising admission — confessed Wednesday that insurance companies deliberately confuse policyholders and attempt to dump sick patients to plump their profit margins.

“[T]hey confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors,” former Cigna senior executive Wendell Potter told senators at a hearing on health insurance Wednesday before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

“Potter, who has more than 20 years of experience working in public relations for insurance companies Cigna and Humana, said companies routinely drop seriously ill policyholders so they can meet “Wall Street’s relentless profit expectations,’” Potter told the hearing, according to ABC News.

“They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment,” Potter added. “(D)umping a small number of enrollees can have a big effect on the bottom line.”

More details regarding a Senate report follows in an Associated Press story.

Senator: Use of faulty insurance data 'pervasive'

Two-thirds of health insurers used flawed database that overcharged patients, says senator

MATTHEW PERRONE
AP News
Jun 24, 2009 18:42 EST

Congressional investigators said Wednesday two-thirds of the U.S. health insurance industry used a faulty database that overcharged patients for seeing doctors outside their insurance network, costing Americans billions of dollars in inflated medical bills.

The flawed database is operated by Ingenix, a subsidiary of health insurer UnitedHealth Group, which agreed in January to pay $350 million to settle allegations that it deliberately kept rates low to underpay doctors, driving up expenses for patients.

An investigation by Sen. John Rockefeller, D-W.Va., shows that nearly 20 regional and national insurers also used Ingenix data. An ongoing probe by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo previously focused on the use of Ingenix data by only a handful of top insurers, including Aetna, Wellpoint and Cigna. About a dozen insurers, including UnitedHealth, have already reached settlements with Cuomo.

Tuesday's report arrives as President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress step up calls for a public health care option. The idea is vigorously opposed by Republicans and insurance industry executives, who say a public plan would drive private companies out of the marketplace.

More than 100 million Americans have plans that allow them to see doctors who are not part of their insurance network. For more than a decade, insurers submitted data to Ingenix to determine the typical cost for care received outside their networks.

But congressional investigators say companies would deliberately skew data to underestimate the costs of medical services, leaving patients to pay more in out-of-pocket expenses.

"The result of this practice is that American consumers have paid billions of dollars for health care services that their insurance companies should have paid," states the report from the Senate Commerce Committee's investigative staff.

In one case, Aetna allegedly eliminated the highest 20 percent of medical charges before sending the data to Ingenix, according to expert court testimony cited by congressional investigators. Once the data was handed over to Ingenix, officials there "scrubbed" the numbers again to further curb charges, according to the testimony.

Aetna denied the allegations in a statement Wednesday, saying they stem from a lawsuit against another insurance company. Aetna was not party to the case.

A Senate Commerce Committee spokesman stood behind the report's statements, saying they stem from evidence given under oath by Aetna in a court proceeding.

UnitedHealth has admitted no wrongdoing in its handling of Ingenix, though it agreed to close the database and help fund a new one operated by a nonprofit group.

Rockefeller and other lawmakers are pushing for additional changes in the insurance marketplace. A bill from the West Virginia senator, who chairs the Commerce Committee, would compel companies to use simple, standardized language to describe insurance policies.

"Consumers can't challenge insurance company decisions because the companies don't explain terms of coverage in understandable language — I would say deliberately," said Sen. Rockefeller, at a hearing Tuesday.

Former insurance executive Wendell Potter told lawmakers that companies deliberately use difficult language to mislead consumers about the scope of their benefits.

"Insurers know that policyholders are so baffled by those notices they usually just ignore them or throw them away," said Potter, a former Cigna executive. "And that's exactly the point. If they were more understandable, more consumers might realize that they are being ripped off."

Potter urged senators to pass the public health plan proposed by Obama, saying it would bring more transparency and higher quality to the health insurance industry.
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our system of health insurance is fuked up. but it's that way bc of government.
the health care industry uses government to protect their interests instead of the people.
the insurance industry uses government to protect it's interests rather than the people.
government forces mandates, doesnt allow competition, and the only private sector solutions end up gouging you.

get the government to do it's job and protect the people from being abused instead of serving the interests of industries that fund their campaign and health insurance will fix itself.

[reno cool]

so to answer the original question raised. The problem is not just with those that don't have insurance but also with those that do.
How much $ can be saved if we just eliminate the vig payed to insurance companies? I'm guessing 80%. That is, if healthcare was guaranteed and paid for by the public avoiding the middleman, we would spend a fraction we do now.
But, we cant do that. Why? Business controls govt. And there's nothing we like more than corporate welfare.