Monday's Positive Energy thread

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  • head_strong
    SBR MVP
    • 07-02-08
    • 4318

    #71
    Originally posted by Razz_Donkey
    Good stuff head strong, you clearly are putting in a lot of research. If you don't mind sharing, what is the most accurate place to find out where money is coming in? Its hard to tell because so many of the sites differ in their numbers.
    No problem....I have a lot of time on my hands considering this is what I do for a living, it works like everything else the more time you put into something the more you generally get back in return. I've only been living in Vegas and doing this full time for 2 years so I'm still learning new things every day like most of us. When it was a hobby throughout college I could make excuses for myself of why something didn't work or what went wrong with this game, because I wasn't looking at everything I felt I needed to look at to be successful.
    To answer your question in relation to the most accurate place to find where the $ are coming in it's a culmination of lots of things for myself.
    I feel like the consensus sites are trying to project a perception of where they want you to think the $ are at and find the majority of those numbers inaccurate. Sometimes people think they are fading the public but in fact they are betting with them. Wagerline, Sportsbook, Pregame, Carib, Twominutewarning, etc are all consensus sites usually all projecting different numbers, so depending which one you use it's the luck of the draw which side you think you are on (if that makes sense).
    Example: today if you checked Wagerline they were reporting over 65% of the action was on Boston over Atlanta, but by my account I had 40% of the action coming in on Boston. Sportsbook was reporting over 70% on Boston, etc. The only way for myself to figure this out is going straight to the source, which is you guys, covers, eog, betting_talk, insideslant, predict'em, therx, statfox, majorwager, etc. all forums where services are posting their plays, people trying to build a reputation for themselves are posting, people keeping records, having touting contest, etc. all things that make me inclined to think that these are legit opinions and not some fabricated numbers a consensus site wants to project. I felt they were trying to guide me into the wrong direction as my original lean was Atlanta once I picked up on that and was sure more $ were backing the Braves I made a play on the RedSox. Obviously it doesn't work out like that every time. The bigger the card is the harder it is to gauge the $ because so much is spread out over so many games, smaller cards usually are easier to read. Everything is estimated as well, I don't take into account the amounts on each play because people lie about that all the time anyway, I just assume that if I see 5 people to 1 person backing a certain side that the 5 bets outweigh the 1, which can be dangerous.
    There are many other things I take into consideration, with player props, team props, adjusted runlines, reverse run lines, etc. all things that generally aren't posted until the following day. So it's a very time consuming process but the only way I can find to get an accurate read. I also have a saying I like to follow "when the bookies make money I make money, when they lose money I lose money" we all know nothing is full proof but I'd rather be on their side any day. Except for when I bet the Orlando Magic Game 5, up 5 with 40 sec left with the ball, I still can't get over that game lol.
    Comment
    • head_strong
      SBR MVP
      • 07-02-08
      • 4318

      #72
      Sorry for such a lengthy post, hope I didn't bore you to death, but there is really no way to explain the process in a few sentences. I actually left out a lot of other things and tried to summarize as much as possible. One last thing, another rule I like to follow is 7 to 1, (with some exceptions of course) I generally like to see at least 7 people backing 1 side for every 1 backing the other before qualifying as a potential play, in relation to the forums. I know this is just 1 of 100 of ways to go about capping games but what I find works best for me.
      Comment
      • Razz_Donkey
        SBR MVP
        • 12-27-08
        • 1756

        #73
        That's an interesting way to gauge the majority. I'm impressed with the work and dedication you have. I agree about getting on the side of the books, I always ask myself "where does the book stand to gain". Good luck with your research, I'll be keeping an eye out for tips and suggestions. Thanks again for sharing.
        Comment
        • Razz_Donkey
          SBR MVP
          • 12-27-08
          • 1756

          #74
          Not boring to me at all. I'm really intrigued. When you say 7:1 I'm assuming you look for that ratio to then fade? I've heard about the 70% rule being the magic number to fade which sounds similar.
          Comment
          • head_strong
            SBR MVP
            • 07-02-08
            • 4318

            #75
            Right....but again you have to be careful. Example I had the Magic at a 13 to 1 ratio before Game 5 which had me over confident about that game, as I bet the ML before the game then took Magic -1 with ingame betting. Looking back I'm still convinced I was on the right side but also acknowledge there are many others out there like me who are doing the same thing. So the sharps could have been loading up on the Magic while the average bettor may be slightly paranoid that the Lakers line was so low causing them to maybe lower there normal wager, which would balance out the $ being played, just an assumption. If that was the case the books got exactly what they wanted, for the $ to come in as close to even as possible. And that's why I say if something looks to good to be true it usually is, 50% of the time when it comes to betting. lol
            Comment
            • topcat
              SBR MVP
              • 04-15-08
              • 1096

              #76
              Originally posted by Razz_Donkey
              Alright, I'll go game by game here and list my feelings and reactions about these match ups.

              STL/NYM: These teams met earlier in the year in STL where the Mets where swept. Being an NL match, both of these pitchers have faced eachother's teams. The battles were dominated by hitting in the past; as the Mets have hit Welly for .422 lifetime and the Cards hit Redding for .333. The Mets strike out less than any team in the league and the Cards are right behind them in third place (6 per game). To top things off, the Cards are third last in the league with strikeouts on their pitching end.

              I see this game going down as slugfest, with both teams putting the ball in play and taking their hacks. Neither team has had very impressive bullpens of late, so I could see runs piling up all throughout the game. Weather is a factor, as light rain is predicted throughout the match. Winds will be coming from left field which might slow hitting to some extent. Regardless, I still see this game going over the 9.5. The Mets are a questionable favorite here, with serious team struggles and roster isssues. The real contender here is STL, and has dominated the Mets so far this year. My picks for this matchup would be STL* and over 9.5**.
              I TOTALY AGREE with the cards play.i was listening to the las vegas consultants,and they were saying the mets were like a mash unit.the only people that knew the mets players were the die hard fan.
              Comment
              • Razz_Donkey
                SBR MVP
                • 12-27-08
                • 1756

                #77
                Originally posted by topcat
                I TOTALY AGREE with the cards play.i was listening to the las vegas consultants,and they were saying the mets were like a mash unit.the only people that knew the mets players were the die hard fan.
                Thanks topcat, but these were just my initial leans with these games. Head strong made some interesting points here about the public betting trends and the initial line openings. My gut said Cards, but I'm going to have to watch this one a bit closer.
                Comment
                • Minkus
                  Restricted User
                  • 06-16-09
                  • 1003

                  #78


                  Colorado Rockies -105
                  Cubs/Braves Under 7.5 (Buy it up to 8) This line went from 9 to 7.5
                  Comment
                  • OB 2138
                    Restricted User
                    • 06-10-09
                    • 574

                    #79
                    cards rockies a's cubs. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
                    Comment
                    • payingthejuice
                      Restricted User
                      • 04-02-09
                      • 2075

                      #80
                      College World Series: LSU Tigers -130
                      Comment
                      • Razz_Donkey
                        SBR MVP
                        • 12-27-08
                        • 1756

                        #81
                        Been up for a bit looking at the lines and reflecting on the games a bit more. I'll post this as an update, hopefully we'll get some more pinions in here.

                        STL/NYM: Mets didn't stay line favorites for long. Looks like STL is even or favored at most books. Can't tell where the money is coming from, the Mets are a public team but there should be plenty of people looking to ride STL considering their recent form. I'm seeing more plays posted taking STL then I am about the Mets. The weather is still showing rain throughout the evening. Beltran looks like he'll be out of the lineup for today. No real updates on the total, still sitting at 9.5. It appears that most are on the over here, but the public usually prefers overs to unders so I wouldn't be suprised.

                        COL/LAA: Line has moved a fair amount here as the Angels opened as medium favorites and now only have a slight edge. Most sites appear to show the angels as having more public money on them. Seen a lot of plays both ways which kind of suprised me. Total has moved from over 9(+100) to 9(-120). Not the direction that I expected considering the starting pitching for each team.

                        SFG/OAK: The Giants have become even greater dogs in this match. Its a bit surprising to me to see the A's get so much respect. The Giants starter is troublesome but still, the A's haven't been that impressive this year. The line for the total has moved suggesting an under but could be due to public bets.

                        CUB/ATL: The Braves have become fairly large favorites on the ML. Looks like the money is fairly even at the moment. This game has had the least amount of discussion thus far, at least from what I've seen on the forums. Total has plumited now down to 7.5. I was already feeling the under, but 7.5 is really low. Soriano looks like he won't be playing today, FWIW.

                        Curious to see where the group is this afternoon. I'm going to have to revisit my picks here, something doesn't sit right with me on the NYM and OAK games. Alright guys, where are you guys at right now?
                        Comment
                        • Minkus
                          Restricted User
                          • 06-16-09
                          • 1003

                          #82
                          Cubs UNDER 8
                          Rockies ML
                          Comment
                          • Dbldown11
                            SBR MVP
                            • 08-17-06
                            • 3605

                            #83
                            Cubs ML
                            Angels ML
                            Giants ML
                            Comment
                            • Razz_Donkey
                              SBR MVP
                              • 12-27-08
                              • 1756

                              #84
                              Okay, here's what I'm seeing from the board. Fairly universal on the Cards and Rockies. Over in NYM game has decent support. Nothing much on the total for that game nor on the A's game. The Cubs game looks split at the moment, both for side and total.

                              Things that concern me: The STL line looks like too good of a deal, come to think of it the over does as well. Why is Oakland getting such favoritism with their lousy record against lefties? And why so much line movement on the Cubs total? Is it too low now for those who like the under still?

                              PTJ: Thanks for the LSU pick, this is another one of your inside info plays I presume?

                              Minkus: Care to add on to your selections?

                              OB: I thought you didn't like this thread, you voted to ban it but still post here?

                              DD: Hmmmmm, you're the first one I've seen on the Angels in here. Care to expand?
                              Comment
                              • Minkus
                                Restricted User
                                • 06-16-09
                                • 1003

                                #85
                                the whip stats explain it all give me a minute
                                Comment
                                • Dbldown11
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 08-17-06
                                  • 3605

                                  #86
                                  I've posted my three picks but as a side note, I make my picks based on which teams provide the most value and for tonight I think it's the Giants, the Cubs, and the Angels.

                                  The Giants are playing well and have owned the A's so being + makes them an obvious value play. The Cubs are on a roll lately so you ride them getting + money as well. The Rockies are on a roll, but going into LA where the Angels have just lost their last two makes the Angels a good value play seeing as how they are only slight Favs
                                  Comment
                                  • Dbldown11
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 08-17-06
                                    • 3605

                                    #87
                                    No opinion on the Mets/Cards game as I see no value in either pick since the game is a virtual toss up
                                    Comment
                                    • dreamjob
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 05-21-09
                                      • 1963

                                      #88
                                      What's up guys. Just replied to Lakerboy's ban PEP thread. Geez what a douche. He needs to spend his time doing other things. At least his thread got plenty of reponses. Unfortunately from both sides. All you haters out there FADE US and make your money. Better yet STAY OFF OUR THREAD! I like having a place where I can get advice since I am a relatively new capper. Alright I'm going to look at tonight's 4 games. I hope I can help us hit another parlay.
                                      Comment
                                      • OB 2138
                                        Restricted User
                                        • 06-10-09
                                        • 574

                                        #89
                                        I like the idea of discussing plays, not playin parlays.
                                        Comment
                                        • Razz_Donkey
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 12-27-08
                                          • 1756

                                          #90
                                          Yeah, I don't even know what to say about that thread DJ. I'm glad most of the Vets around here didn't seem to care. They're not interested if we make money or not, they just seemed pleased at the spirit and the idea. Thats the way it should be, its confined to one thread a day, and no one has to read it if they don't want to. Seems like a waste of time to me to complain about it... Not to mention half the people who voted to ban it still showed up to contribute.

                                          Well, congrats again on your big parlay yesterday, looking forward to your input on today's games.
                                          Comment
                                          • Razz_Donkey
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 12-27-08
                                            • 1756

                                            #91
                                            Alright guys, no sign of TIK but we still go a while to go before the games. Lets see if I have this correct:

                                            DD: SFO, LAA, CUB. Picked these mainly according to perceived value at the line line offered.

                                            Minkus: COL, ATL U 8. Playing these based on the WHIP primarily.

                                            TIK: COL, ATL, STL. Based on strongest play to weakest.

                                            DJ: STL RL, COL, SFO, ATL.

                                            Lakerboy: CUB and O 8, NYM O 9.5.

                                            OB: STL, OAK, COL, CUB.

                                            head strong: Was leaning Mets based upon shady line.

                                            PTJ: Strong play on LSU for CWS.

                                            Razz: Already broke down games based on initial reaction (1st page). Still working on my favorite plays.

                                            Am I missing anyone here, any plays to update?
                                            Comment
                                            • dreamjob
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 05-21-09
                                              • 1963

                                              #92
                                              Thanks Razz
                                              Stl RL*
                                              Col ml*
                                              Sf ml*
                                              Atl ml*
                                              That's what I see so far
                                              Comment
                                              • dreamjob
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 05-21-09
                                                • 1963

                                                #93
                                                Geez, somehow the cards are a dog at my book. Since I can't parlay alternate RLs with my book. I guess I have to go with
                                                Stl ML
                                                With the others in my above post
                                                Comment
                                                • Razz_Donkey
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 12-27-08
                                                  • 1756

                                                  #94
                                                  Going to revise some of my initial picks based on line movement and further research.

                                                  - NYM and U 9.5. Complete reversal of what I said before. Saw a Bookie report that nearly 80% of the money was coming in for the Cards, but the line has barely moved. Line has also moved to favor the under.
                                                  - COL and O 9. Staying with COL fro now, taking the over based on line movement and offensive production capabilities for these two teams, despite the pitching.
                                                  - SFO/OAK. Still undecided, not too in love with this match up.
                                                  - ATL. Sticking to ATL, the line is set too high IMO in favor of ATL and I'm coming to learn this usually means Vegas is up to something, gonna side with the books here. Total is getting low, not sure if I can continue backing the under here.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • dreamjob
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 05-21-09
                                                    • 1963

                                                    #95
                                                    Public money seems to be heavy on Oakland 79%, Cubs 72%, Stl/Nym Over 73%.
                                                    What is the deal. Oakland is not good at all. The cubs swept a depleted indians team with 2 of those wins going to extras. The Stl/NYM over love must be becuase of the STL bats. Lately they have hit the crap out of the ball. Tonight the cards visit citifield for the first time. Their last series the cards swept the mets with 2 over totals. The difference is they're in NY and the balls die in Citifield. Will the cards win. I think so over 9.5. Ah I don't see it. I hope they make the cards the fav in my book. I like the cards rl and under 9.5
                                                    Comment
                                                    • dreamjob
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 05-21-09
                                                      • 1963

                                                      #96
                                                      Originally posted by Razz_Donkey
                                                      Going to revise some of my initial picks based on line movement and further research.

                                                      - NYM and U 9.5. Complete reversal of what I said before. Saw a Bookie report that nearly 80% of the money was coming in for the Cards, but the line has barely moved. Line has also moved to favor the under.
                                                      - COL and O 9. Staying with COL fro now, taking the over based on line movement and offensive production capabilities for these two teams, despite the pitching.
                                                      - SFO/OAK. Still undecided, not too in love with this match up.
                                                      - ATL. Sticking to ATL, the line is set too high IMO in favor of ATL and I'm coming to learn this usually means Vegas is up to something, gonna side with the books here. Total is getting low, not sure if I can continue backing the under here.
                                                      I guess you found that on twitter. I need to sign up I guess.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Razz_Donkey
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 12-27-08
                                                        • 1756

                                                        #97
                                                        Yeah DJ, I have no idea why the public seems to be hitting OAK so hard. Sanchez has had some tough outings but Oakland is terrible and only has a .333% winning average against southpaws. The only thing I can think of here is that the data we are seeing is off. Neither team is very public, maybe its just a small sample size of money coming in.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • TheIntegrityKid
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 06-08-09
                                                          • 3063

                                                          #98
                                                          I'm here everyone... I still like Atl, Col, Stl, Sf.... Not sure about over/unders--- I'd take any of em, as they are a toss up anyway


                                                          Comment
                                                          • TheIntegrityKid
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 06-08-09
                                                            • 3063

                                                            #99
                                                            Originally posted by dreamjob
                                                            Thanks Razz
                                                            Stl RL*
                                                            Col ml*
                                                            Sf ml*
                                                            Atl ml*
                                                            That's what I see so far

                                                            Glad I agree with this guy!

                                                            He's hot!!!


                                                            Comment
                                                            • dreamjob
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 05-21-09
                                                              • 1963

                                                              #100
                                                              Originally posted by TheIntegrityKid
                                                              Glad I agree with this guy!

                                                              He's hot!!!

                                                              Thanks kid. I'm hoping to stay that way.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • TheIntegrityKid
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 06-08-09
                                                                • 3063

                                                                #101
                                                                From what I gather, Stl and Col are hot picks around here...


                                                                Comment
                                                                • TheIntegrityKid
                                                                  SBR MVP
                                                                  • 06-08-09
                                                                  • 3063

                                                                  #102
                                                                  and atl...


                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • dreamjob
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 05-21-09
                                                                    • 1963

                                                                    #103
                                                                    Originally posted by TheIntegrityKid
                                                                    From what I gather, Stl and Col are hot picks around here...
                                                                    Yeah but Razz made some good points a few posts ago about the public betting heavy on the cards, but no line movement. A few of our bumps on this road have been because of weird line movements and such which Razz warned us about and we ended up losing the game. So I don't know
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Razz_Donkey
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 12-27-08
                                                                      • 1756

                                                                      #104
                                                                      I thinks its only fair that we honor lakerboy with a separate parlay after all the noise and proclamations he made. His picks are listed last night; NYM O 9.5, CUB, CUB O 8. I say we give a special spot in the your signature TIK, you could call it the "anti P.E.P. lakerboy record"...

                                                                      Yeah, most people are on the Cards and COL. I changed my mind on the Cards after seeing some bookie updates and line movement, but I'll withdraw on that one and differ to the group, I wasn't feeling that strongly anyway. COL is only about a 1* pick from me, not sure how much longer they can keep up the win rate, but the Angels aren't as good as their record suggests IMO.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • TheIntegrityKid
                                                                        SBR MVP
                                                                        • 06-08-09
                                                                        • 3063

                                                                        #105
                                                                        Yeah we should keep track of fakerboy's anti pep play somehow....

                                                                        And I kind of agree with DJ about fading the cards game out of our parlay based on line movements... but do we like the other 3 strong enough to play them without STL.... any over/unders that we should play???


                                                                        Comment
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