BTC Futures trading starts

[jjgold]

Roy you better have a lot of cash in account

[RoyBacon]

Ended up at Interactivebrokers.com

Friday the spread between cash(gdax) and the Jan contract was $600. I bought 4 btc and sold 4 jan contracts. That locks up a $2400 profit and ties up about $100k.

Fees are minimal, $5 per contract and buys are free at gdax on limit orders.

Checking right now cash; $18577 Jan Futures; 18610
Spread has really closed. Shame.

[jjgold]

Good work guy

Keep reporting

[grease lightnin]

Roy you are playing with fire unless your investable assets are north of 2 mil

[RoyBacon]

Roy you are playing with fire unless your investable assets are north of 2 mil

When they first started trading the spread between cash and a 1 month futures was $1,000. I was going crazy trying to get a futures account open...they are VERY difficult.

By the time I got it funded the spread was $600. Now it's just $200.

Dude you can become a millionaire buying at GDAX and selling the 1 month futures for $1k profit per btc. Unfortunately it did not last or at least is not present currently.

[Legions36]

Damn I don't know anything about futures and would like to get on this. I don't understand this waiting to January thing. If you want to play the spread to lock in an amount I'm confused.

[RoyBacon]

Damn I don't know anything about futures and would like to get on this. I don't understand this waiting to January thing. If you want to play the spread to lock in an amount I'm confused.

Well it's a simple concept. You buy 1 btc at gdax for say $18,000 and as quickly as you can sell a Jan futures at $18,500.

You will tie up $27k for a month but you will profit by $500 no matter what the price. There is no risk. Your 27k will make $6k a year so 24%.

Yea when I saw that I was going wood crazy. Borrowed on margin at 2% and went ape shat. But the bad news is that only lasted a week. The spread is $200 as of now. Not enough to fool with.

[Legions36]

Well it's a simple concept. You buy 1 btc at gdax for say $18,000 and as quickly as you can sell a Jan futures at $18,500.

You will tie up $27k for a month but you will profit by $500 no matter what the price. There is no risk. Your 27k will make $6k a year so 24%.

Yea when I saw that I was going wood crazy. Borrowed on margin at 2% and went ape shat. But the bad news is that only lasted a week. The spread is $200 as of now. Not enough to fool with.

Isn't Gdax cost more than most exchanges all the time to purchase? Why can't u also buy from other exchanges as well to get a better spread?
What happens with the taxes part if say u win on the broker u use, if u don't even buy the bitcoins from one of the exchanges here like gdax which is legal. Or u get them from sources u can't actually legally prove like one of the books for instance? Just looking to get an understanding of this future thing more because they say theres stuff interesting stuff you can do now with this.

[jjgold]

Prices move too fast


Will eventually get caught

[RoyBacon]

Isn't Gdax cost more than most exchanges all the time to purchase? Why can't u also buy from other exchanges as well to get a better spread?
What happens with the taxes part if say u win on the broker u use, if u don't even buy the bitcoins from one of the exchanges here like gdax which is legal. Or u get them from sources u can't actually legally prove like one of the books for instance? Just looking to get an understanding of this future thing more because they say theres stuff interesting stuff you can do now with this.

Right now for example you can buy on Bitfinex at $18,745 with a $60 commission and Gdax at $18900 with a zero commission.

So gdax is free with limit orders. Bitstamp is $18,800 with a $80 commission.

Yes, you can and should buy at the lowest net price. Keep in mind the round trip commission on gdax is still zero. While the others will be about $140ish.

The hurdle rate on this type of arbitrage is about 17%. Keep in mind that the contracts settle in cash at 5pm on the 3rd Friday so you have to sell your long position at 5:00:01 and there could be some slight slippage. There is a $10 round trip fee for the futures so if your hurdle rate is 17% you may only yield 16%ish.

If you really want to bank fund all 3 of those exchanges and a Interactivebrokers account and keep watch. A month ago there was a $1500 spread between Bitfinex and gdax just with the price of btc. It only lasted a few hours but you could clean up while it lasted.

[eddycash]

why dont any of you have btc? i quit my day job because of bitcoin.

[jjgold]

Futures trading very very low

Bottom 10% lightly traded products

[Legions36]

why dont any of you have btc? i quit my day job because of bitcoin.

Who said that we don't have any? And u think your the only one around here who quit there day job?

[Legions36]

Right now for example you can buy on Bitfinex at $18,745 with a $60 commission and Gdax at $18900 with a zero commission.

So gdax is free with limit orders. Bitstamp is $18,800 with a $80 commission.

Yes, you can and should buy at the lowest net price. Keep in mind the round trip commission on gdax is still zero. While the others will be about $140ish.

The hurdle rate on this type of arbitrage is about 17%. Keep in mind that the contracts settle in cash at 5pm on the 3rd Friday so you have to sell your long position at 5:00:01 and there could be some slight slippage. There is a $10 round trip fee for the futures so if your hurdle rate is 17% you may only yield 16%ish.

If you really want to bank fund all 3 of those exchanges and a Interactivebrokers account and keep watch. A month ago there was a $1500 spread between Bitfinex and gdax just with the price of btc. It only lasted a few hours but you could clean up while it lasted.

I know what your talking about with the different exchanges, when they come around. What I didn't understand is the futures aspect and being able to secure in a profit no matter what. I also didn't understand the part of making a contract, what happens if the contract wins and how when you go to pay taxes will they know u only made say $2000 in profit instead of the full contract amount? I understand u have proof at gdax cause they regulated but how do you prove that part of it if its not a regulated coin?

[KVB]

BTC futures.

Unreal.

[jjgold]

Cme volume is pathetic
If they do not change contract size to 1 bitcoin instead of 5 it will be discontinued

[RoyBacon]

I know what your talking about with the different exchanges, when they come around. What I didn't understand is the futures aspect and being able to secure in a profit no matter what. I also didn't understand the part of making a contract, what happens if the contract wins and how when you go to pay taxes will they know u only made say $2000 in profit instead of the full contract amount? I understand u have proof at gdax cause they regulated but how do you prove that part of it if its not a regulated coin?

It's all US. I wouldn't even consider avoiding taxes on this.

[KVB]

Cme volume is pathetic
If they do not change contract size to 1 bitcoin instead of 5 it will be discontinued

This isn't something for everyone Mr. Gold.

This a sort of accredited investor type opportunity.

All it takes is an institution to start herding the high risk tolerance high net worth sheep. I used to do that.

The manipulation of BTC itself is the real barrier.

[jjgold]

It’s not for retail investor
Priced out

[PAULYPOKER]

The big boys are now starting to manipulate the market from many angles......

All the little fishy's are going to be consumed by these sharks..

Its just a matter of time................

[jjgold]

Most likely

The big boys are now starting to manipulate the market from many angles......

All the little fishy's are going to be consumed by these sharks..

Its just a matter of time................

[RoyBacon]

The Jan futures are now $300 LOWER than the spot price on Gdax.

I know futures can trade lower than cash, happens all the time in things like corn. But I find this pricing very strange.

[littlekona]

I just read that someone purchased 1 Mill future that BTC will be 50K+ by end of 2018...

[RoyBacon]

The Jan futures are now $300 LOWER than the spot price on Gdax.

I know futures can trade lower than cash, happens all the time in things like corn. But I find this pricing very strange.

Turned out to be one hell of a sell sign.

[jjgold]

Getting lower and lower

Worried

[hotcross]

Mr. Bacon, how could I find the amount/levels of short interest in the BTC futures? And what day of the month do the futures expire?

I'm inexperienced with market futures and looking for some help. Thanks!

[RoyBacon]

Mr. Bacon, how could I find the amount/levels of short interest in the BTC futures? And what day of the month do the futures expire?

I'm inexperienced with market futures and looking for some help. Thanks!

Good questions. Dont know the short interest question but if you find out first post it. The CBOE futures expire on the 3rd friday on the last trade. I think the CME is the same.