Assuming we continue buying mostly foriegn made products....

[Todd2122]

How do we turn our economy around? Just wondering..... I love foreign products, but don't we all need to start buying American starting soon or we will be in deeper crap then we are in now. From the beer we drink, to the cars we drive, to the clothes we buy, shouldn't everyone at least consider where the money we are spending is going?

[j0hnnyv]

that doesnt matter at all. we will always use import shit, just a way of life. we will turn this country around in 2012 when obama is gone

[InTheHole]

Offer me better quality and a lower price and I'll buy the product.

[Todd2122]

But if we always buy more foreign products than we sell, we always have trade imbalances. This means other countries will have more and more dollars which they use to buy our bonds. China has a huge surplus of dollars. What if they started picking off American companies every year instead of just buying our bonds. It would create an uproar. Instead, the bond buying is quiet and unnoticed by the public. We have no idea how weak we really are.

[betplom]

Offer me better quality and a lower price and I'll buy the product.

Me too, but only if I can buy it on credit.

[Todd2122]

Offer me better quality and a lower price and I'll buy the product.

I agree, but our dollar is strong because it is the world's trusted reserve currency. THis mhy not always be the case. Should we keep buying the better value, while our manufacturing plants close every day, or should we suck it up and support our country? I agree, the overpaid UAW is crap, but we are closing $10 an hour plants as well. Shouldn't we be considering the effect on our country every time we buy something?

[losturmarbles]

the question is why do american products cost more and are of inferior quality?

or ask yourself why companies would rather move overseas than to produce something here?

once you realize what stands in the way of doing business, then your question about turning the economy around answers itself.

[Todd2122]

the question is why do american products cost more and are of inferior quality?

or ask yourself why companies would rather move overseas than to produce something here?

once you realize what stands in the way of doing business, then your question about turning the economy around answers itself.

He makes a valid point. But, how much would we save if we didn't get involved in wars as well? The flat tax won't ever happen just like we will never end our warring history.

[losturmarbles]

He makes a valid point. But, how much would we save if we didn't get involved in wars as well? The flat tax won't ever happen just like we will never end our warring history.

wars devalue the currency and end up making the fed a lot of profit. really the economy is controlled by the fed. the fed controls the currency value, controls the interest rates. and wars make it easy to force their agenda.

btw its the FairTax, not the flat tax

[Data]

What the protectionist measures do is ensuring the miserable existence of inefficient companies and freezing the trade. That does not lead to economic recovery but supposedly eases the pain in a manner of cutting off a tail in a number of cuts instead of one.

[Todd2122]

wars devalue the currency and end up making the fed a lot of profit. really the economy is controlled by the fed. the fed controls the currency value, controls the interest rates. and wars make it easy to force their agenda.

btw its the FairTax, not the flat tax

So, you are fine with this d!ckbag not paying income tax?

http://www.fool.com/news/associated-press/2009/04/06/halliburton-2008-ceo-compensation-hit-155-mln.aspx

[Todd2122]

What the protectionist measures do is ensuring the miserable existence of inefficient companies and freezing the trade. That does not lead to economic recovery but supposedly eases the pain in a manner of cutting off a tail in a number of cuts instead of one.

What is YOUR solution to our economic chaos? Supporting $1 an hour Communist workers with no workers rights or environmental standards whatsover? Pointing out flaws in others arguments is simple. Providing clear cut solutions is difficult. I work for a foreign company who closes US plants without blinking an eye. How does this help our country?

[losturmarbles]

So, you are fine with this d!ckbag not paying income tax?

http://www.fool.com/news/associated-...t-155-mln.aspx

is this going into a tax discussion?

clearly the 16th amendment hasnt been repealed, so your question is irrelevant.

[wtf]

you DO NOT NEED a strong manufacturing base to be a successful country, there are numerous examples

sound like more propaganda pushed by the unions UAW in particular

[Todd2122]

is this going into a tax discussion?

clearly the 16th amendment hasnt been repealed, so your question is irrelevant.

The Fair tax is based on consumption, not income, correct? So, Dickweed Haliburton CEO makes $15 mil with no income taxes correct? Is this what you are in favor of?

[Todd2122]

you DO NOT NEED a strong manufacturing base to be a successful country, there are numerous examples

sound like more propaganda pushed by the unions UAW in particular

Name them

[losturmarbles]

The Fair tax is based on consumption, not income, correct? So, Dickweed Haliburton CEO makes $15 mil with no income taxes correct? Is this what you are in favor of?

no income taxes for anyone. yes that is what i'm in favor of.

i'm also in favor of restricting government from getting in bed with private companies.

i'm also in favor of forcing companies to compete in the free market instead of gaining an advantage by government favors and exemptions.

[wtf]

the country i live in hong kong and singapore

both have ZERO NATURAL RESOURCES prosper simply on intellect

[Data]

The Fair tax is based on consumption, not income, correct? So, Dickweed Haliburton CEO makes $15 mil with no income taxes correct? Is this what you are in favor of?

And why is that bad? Why do you feel you are entitled for a part of the money he earned?

[nosniboR11]

dont buy anything, just gamble your money away

[Todd2122]

[quote=wtf;1804520]the country i live in hong kong and singapore

both have ZERO NATURAL RESOURCES prosper simply on intellect[/quote

My argument is we should consider supporting our manufacturers. Are you saying Hong Kong and Singapore prosper without manufacturing? Clearly, manufacturing is a large key to their success, no?

[Data]

What is YOUR solution to our economic chaos?

It is very simple. Do nothing, no bailouts, let the failing institutions fail. Let the bad debt vaporize. Let the real estate prices to go down to the levels they should be at. Let the healthy companies prosper instead of holding them down by supporting failed ineffective ones. Start fresh.

[Todd2122]

And why is that bad? Why do you feel you are entitled for a part of the money he earned?

I was not asking you. I am not arguing that I believe I am entitled to part of the money he earned. I am asking if he is in favor of drastically reducing the income tax paid by the overpaid CEOs of the US like Mr. Lesar. If he is, I will respect that. Personally, I believe CEO's are extremely overpaid, and the 10-20 year recession we are in will correct that naturally. It will be too little too late, though.

[Todd2122]

It is very simple. Do nothing, no bailouts, let the failing institutions fail. Let the bad debt vaporize. Let the real estate prices to go down to the levels they should be at. Let the healthy companies prosper instead of holding them down by supporting failed ineffective ones. Start fresh.

So what is your predicted peak unemployment rate based on your ideas? I would guess 25%, no? I am not arguing against it, I just don't want to be walking the streets during these times.

[wtf]

[quote=Todd2122;1804545]

the country i live in hong kong and singapore

both have ZERO NATURAL RESOURCES prosper simply on intellect[/quote

My argument is we should consider supporting our manufacturers. Are you saying Hong Kong and Singapore prosper without manufacturing? Clearly, manufacturing is a large key to their success, no?

yes both countries have virtually zero traditional manufacturing base

they provide services, and soft products (ie software-movies)
BOTH ARE WHAT AMERICA IS GOOD AT, let india and china produce tangible items any retard can build and ruin their own environments

[Data]

Personally, I believe CEO's are extremely overpaid

Let's say you own Halliburton. How much would you be willing to pay an exceptional individual to run your company and to make you as much money as possible? Would you settle for anything but exceptional? Do you think that exceptionally gifted individuals are commodity?

They might have picked the wrong guy but I disagree that the pay was unreasonably high.

[Todd2122]

[quote=wtf;1804571]

yes both countries have virtually zero traditional manufacturing base

they provide services, and soft products (ie software-movies)
BOTH ARE WHAT AMERICA IS GOOD AT, let india and china produce tangible items any retard can build and ruin their own environments

Post-Handover Services Since 1997, the economy has been led by two engines, the business and financial services sectors which together account for half of all economic activity.
This is from Wikipedia.....Wasn't our economy led by the "engine" of financial services? Look how that turned out. You may be correct, I am not an expert on Hong Kong, I just worry about the future of our country. It seems we have some easy choices that we refuse to make consistently that would at least keep us in the game. Buying Heineken may make you a little happier, but at least Coor's, Miller, etc are produced in the US keeping a few jobs here. You can't argue that buying a US made beer doesn't help our country more than buying a directly imported beer. Let's just all start considereing the economic effect of our purchases. Let's start today. I am in.

[Data]

So what is your predicted peak unemployment rate based on your ideas?

I can't tell but you have to look at that in comparison. The unemployment would be better than it is going to be under Obama's administration because this plan helps the economy to recover while his plan does not. Again, the point is, you either do the right thing and cut off the whole tail, or do it by cutting off small pieces. Also, it should noted that these are not my ideas but the ideas I happen to share with a number of very bright economists.

[Todd2122]

Let's say you own Halliburton. How much would you be willing to pay an exceptional individual to run your company and to make you as much money as possible? Would you settle for anything but exceptional? Do you think that exceptionally gifted individuals are commodity?

They might have picked the wrong guy but I disagree that the pay was unreasonably high.

Shouldn't we as citizens be looking deeper at the consequences of corporate decisions. I assume you think slavery in the 1800's was wrong? Obviously....but from an economic standpoint, the wages paid to Chinese laborers today are equivalent to to the food and shelter provided to 1800's slaves in my opinion. The real difference is that the Chinese laborer has a choice, but really, what is his alternative? Probably, not much. Workers in China are economic slaves which we support buy buying products made by them. Americans are protected by much higher labor standards, so shouldn't we be supporting them when given the choice?

[Todd2122]

I can't tell but you have to look at that in comparison. The unemployment would be better than it is going to be under Obama's administration because this plan helps the economy to recover while his plan does not. Again, the point is, you either do the right thing and cut off the whole tail, or do it by cutting off small pieces. Also, it should noted that these are not my ideas but the ideas I happen to share with a number of very bright economists.

I love bright economists like Robert Rubin who helped Citigroup become the great company it is today.

I think Obama is going to keep the status quo which is increase long term debt to keep our inflated standard of living intact. I can't argue it is better, but at least in my opinon gives the American citizen more time to decide whether or not to at least try to support his country.

[Data]

Shouldn't we as citizens be looking deeper at the consequences of corporate decisions. I assume you think slavery in the 1800's was wrong? Obviously....but from an economic standpoint, the wages paid to Chinese laborers today are equivalent to to the food and shelter provided to 1800's slaves in my opinion. The real difference is that the Chinese laborer has a choice, but really, what is his alternative? Probably, not much. Workers in China are economic slaves which we support buy buying products made by them.

I can't see how this relevant to CEO's pay as these are different matters.

From morality standpoint, when you are buying something made by "economic slaves" you make sure that those "economic slaves" will not starve.

From economical standpoint, a consumer's concerns is getting a better product for a lesser price. If the government imposes high taxes on manufacturers and if the unions make sure that their members get the compensations they do not deserve, why the consumer has to pay for that nonsense?

Americans are protected by much higher labor standards, so shouldn't we be supporting them when given the choice?

If you are talking about the unions then that is rather a problem and not the solution. This only creates labor market disbalances where workers are overpaid leading to inefficient companies they are working at to crash.

[Todd2122]

I can't see how this relevant to CEO's pay as these are different matters.

From morality standpoint, when you are buying something made by "economic slaves" you make sure that those "economic slaves" will not starve.

I am confused, 1800's slaves didn't starve either, but was it still correct to use them?

From economical standpoint, a consumer's concerns is getting a better product for a lesser price. If the government imposes high taxes on manufacturers and if the unions make sure that their members get the compensations they do not deserve, why the consumer has to pay for that nonsense?

This is not about unions. This is about helping your fellow countrymen, who also help you by supporting your company.



If you are talking about the unions then that is rather a problem and not the solution. This only creates labor market disbalances where workers are overpaid leading to inefficient companies they are working at to crash.

I have not favored unions, I just ask whether or not we as Americans should consider supporting the labor of our fellow countrymen over the $1 an hour slave labor in countries with no worker rights or environmental standards.. Also, not one of the last 8 American plants my company has closed has been a union plant. Mainly $10 an hour workers. Is that inefficient labor in your eyes?

Seriously, are you proud of the results of the Bush years? What aspects are you proud of? Are we more secure? Are we richer? Are we smarter? Are we better in any way?

[Data]

I think Obama is going to keep the status quo which is increase long term debt to keep our inflated standard of living intact.

It seems that many people, including Obama and you, think that that is possible. I disagree.

Obama inherited from Bush a huge bubble of what the economy has become. Instead of dealing with it he decided to keep pumping in the air. The problem is, all the suckers (China and other debt holders) already realized they have been had and very soon Obama will run out of gas. Then, it is going to get much worse.

[mathdotcom]

What America really needs is to prevent economically uneducated idiots from voting.

"Buy American". What horseshit.

[Data]

I have not favored unions, I just ask whether or not we as Americans should consider supporting the labor of our fellow countrymen

Again, not, because this freezes trade and trade is good for the economy.

over the $1 an hour slave labor in countries with no worker rights or environmental standards.. Also, not one of the last 8 American plants my company has closed has been a union plant. Mainly $10 an hour workers. Is that inefficient labor in your eyes?

No, I guess that company had other problems with taxes being one of those.

Seriously, are you proud of the results of the Bush years?

No, I am completely disgusted.

What aspects are you proud of? Are we more secure? Are we richer? Are we smarter? Are we better in any way?

No, no, and no. I am unsure why you are asking. The fact that I am highly critical of Obama does not make me Bush supporter.