Kobe is reaching his end in the NBA, is he top 10? top 25?

**bigtymer56** · 12-02-15, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by d2bets

MJ
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Lebon
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Duncan
Big O

Around 11.

Might switch up the order but yea Kobes around 10 or 11 for me.

**Seto** · 12-02-15, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by bigtymer56

You also gotta factor in teammates too. For some reason Lebron gets no credit for playing with trash in Cleveland for years and making people think Mike Brown was a good coach...yet people forget in the PRIME of his career when he didnt have a top 10 player or other All-Stars with him, Kobe's Lakers couldnt make it out the first round...

I give him credit for last year. Great performance in the finals in a series that was a complete mismatch and made it somewhat interesting.

Making it out of the first round in the West and the East is incomparable. Compare the teams Kobe has faced in the first round when he has lost there and the teams LeBron faces in the East. This whole thing about LeBron being so great because he's never lost in the first round is laughable. And I don't think you can complain about your teammates sucking when you team up with a former finals MVP and another perennial all-star. Losing the 2011 Finals with that team hurts his legacy a lot.

Look, he's an awesome player. But he needs more on his resume as far as defeating formidable opponents in the playoffs to be in the conversation with Kobe to me. But I can respect someone having LeBron over Kobe even though I disagree wholeheartedly. Someone who has Curry over Kobe (at this point in time) can fukk off though.

**MoMoneyMoVaughn** · 12-02-15, 09:29 AM

Legacy ruined, let's face it.

Top ten? No.

Top25? Yes for sure.

But his legacy is ruined with these last couple years.

**dmitean** · 12-02-15, 10:10 AM

Kobe is amazing player and by far the best player of his generation. BY FAR! Duncan is close, but Spurs are first of all organization - they never were about the players. I'm sure that if Duncan was in LA, he would have had entirely different career. Show me one player that got better after leaving SA...
Where can we place him overall? How can you compare? Different rules, different styles, different demands from players...
He is the TOP of the TOP. Best ever to play? Maybe. Only 6th or 9th? Maybe...
LeBron said one true thing recently - instead of recognizing greatness, in the NBA, everyone is trying to compare and not only position wise, but also overall...

I don't remember discussions in NFL is some QB is better than some RB and so on...

**teaserpleaser** · 12-02-15, 10:15 AM

Top 10 for sure look at his body of work not just the end ....could argue top 5

**jjgold** · 12-02-15, 10:19 AM

Lets say this

Kobe not even Lebron leagues

Lebron wins with college players for the most part ..Kobe always had dominant other players

Kobe top 10

**Seto** · 12-02-15, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by MoMoneyMoVaughn

Legacy ruined, let's face it.

Top ten? No.

Top25? Yes for sure.

But his legacy is ruined with these last couple years.

"Let's face it" as if this was some kind of universal truth?

Nobody will remember the terrible year he is currently having in 5 years except his haters. And his haters disliked him from the jump so it's not like they needed the extra ammunition of a bad year at age 37 to hate him.

People remember athletes for what they do in their prime, not what they do when they're 37.

**dmitean** · 12-02-15, 10:23 AM

Recently I saw a nice article about Kobe and the Lakers this season and after the obvious bashing of Kobe and how he looks this season, writer was correct to mention that he can teach the young players, how to stay your course. How to be stubborn and never give up. To do what you believe is best.
KG said recently, that you can't go to the store and by six pack of beast and he is right of course. The same can be said about Kobe and his desire to be great, his obsession with winning. His demand to never accept nothing less and to stay true to yourself.
Yes, he could adjust, I'm sure he could. He is one of the players with highest basketball IQ in the game. But than it wouldn't have been Kobe Bryant. If Russel, Randle and Clarkson will pick up some of that, this season wasn't for nothing...

**dmitean** · 12-02-15, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Seto

"Let's face it" as if this was some kind of universal truth?

Nobody will remember the terrible year he is currently having in 5 years except his haters. And his haters disliked him from the jump so it's not like they needed the extra ammunition of a bad year at age 37 to hate him.

People remember athletes for what they do in their prime, not what they do when they're 37.

MJ is the perfect example... Show me one fan that counts MJ's seasons as Wizards, talking about MJ's legacy.
Kobe's legacy should be considered till the game against GSW, when he tore his Achilles and it ended the same way, it been whole career. Kobe driving his team on his back, willing his way the only way he knows how - by himself. He carried LAL that year to the playoffs almost by himself.

**Seto** · 12-02-15, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by dmitean

MJ is the perfect example... Show me one fan that counts MJ's seasons as Wizards, talking about MJ's legacy.
Kobe's legacy should be considered till the game against GSW, when he tore his Achilles and it ended the same way, it been whole career. Kobe driving his team on his back, willing his way the only way he knows how - by himself. He carried LAL that year to the playoffs almost by himself.

He had such a great year that season. Made me a fukkton of money when they were making that playoff push. It's so unfortunate he wasn't able to play in the playoffs, but with Nash being hurt and Pau/Dwight playing like fukking pussies, it probably would've been a 4-1 series at best anyway.

And spot on for MJ. Having not followed his career I hardly even know he played for the Wizards. Every single highlight or game on replay I've watched of his has been during his prime in Chicago.

**hawkwind** · 12-02-15, 10:34 AM

Top Ten

**jjgold** · 12-02-15, 10:35 AM

He will always be know as a great scorer and that is it

He made nobody better

MJ might of been best defensive guard that ever played

Lebron best all around player that ever lived and NOBODY CLOSE

**dmitean** · 12-02-15, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Lebron best all around player that ever lived and NOBODY CLOSE

If Big O was playing now, I'm not sure you would have made this claim...

**Ballin24** · 12-02-15, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

He will always be know as a great scorer and that is it

He made nobody better

MJ might of been best defensive guard that ever played

Lebron best all around player that ever lived and NOBODY CLOSE

Its pretty fun how u know nothing about this sport. The only right thing is u said that MJ is the best defensive guard. Lebron has not won a ring without 2 HOFers in Wade (who won before lebron did in 2006), and bosh (10 time all star) so u can't say he wins with college players when he hasn't really won anything without 2 HOFers on his team.

Pau gasol was 0-12 in the playoffs before Kobe. The 2000-2002 teams Kobe had were dominant but in 2009-10 the team wasn't really dominant. It was pretty much Kobe gasol and odom. Andrew Bynum wasn't a factor in both the rings.

**jjgold** · 12-02-15, 11:00 AM

Lebron took two college teams to the nba finals all by himself

Nobody in BA history has ever done that

Lebron played 1 on 5 vs the powerhouse GSW and made it a very competitive series

**Ballin24** · 12-02-15, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Lebron took two college teams to the nba finals all by himself

Nobody in BA history has ever done that

Lebron played 1 on 5 vs the powerhouse GSW and made it a very competitive series

Okay well he went through the college east no chance in hell he makes it if he played in the western conference last season. Lebron has only beaten 7 50 win teams in his career while Kobe has beaten 24 50 win teams.

At at the end of the day lebron/Kobe is debatable but MJ is on a different level as the GOAT. That is all that needs to be said tbh.

**Seto** · 12-02-15, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Ballin24

Okay well he went through the college east no chance in hell he makes it if he played in the western conference last season. Lebron has only beaten 7 50 win teams in his career while Kobe has beaten 24 50 win teams.

That's a pretty amazing stat. And not a surprising one.

**jjgold** · 12-02-15, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Seto

That's a pretty amazing stat. And not a surprising one.

Lebron plays will college players most of his career

Kobe had superstars

**Vegas39** · 12-02-15, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Lebron plays will college players most of his career

Kobe had superstars

Bosh and Wade

If Lebron had Kobes killer instinct he'd likely have 4 rings by now

**trytrytry** · 12-02-15, 11:31 AM

lets say he is 12th best ever and move on.

great basketball talent.

**gauchojake** · 12-02-15, 11:56 AM

I think we need to start separating the pre/post magic/bird era but even without that qualification, he's top 10.

**eidolon** · 12-02-15, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Seto

I give him credit for last year. Great performance in the finals in a series that was a complete mismatch and made it somewhat interesting.

Making it out of the first round in the West and the East is incomparable. Compare the teams Kobe has faced in the first round when he has lost there and the teams LeBron faces in the East. This whole thing about LeBron being so great because he's never lost in the first round is laughable. And I don't think you can complain about your teammates sucking when you team up with a former finals MVP and another perennial all-star. Losing the 2011 Finals with that team hurts his legacy a lot.

Look, he's an awesome player. But he needs more on his resume as far as defeating formidable opponents in the playoffs to be in the conversation with Kobe to me. But I can respect someone having LeBron over Kobe even though I disagree wholeheartedly. Someone who has Curry over Kobe (at this point in time) can fukk off though.

Kobe lost the 2004 Finals for the Lakers by shooting 38% during the finals. That was the year they had a superteam; did that hurt his legacy for you?

Also the first two championships that Kobe won: he shot 36% and 41% in the finals

**INVEGA MAN** · 12-02-15, 12:32 PM

Everybody will remember his last couple years he played. how can you not. Its s sad to see but $25 million will do this. I put hm in the top 5 but no way is he #1. NO WAY

**jjgold** · 12-02-15, 01:09 PM

always remember Magic and Larry were surrounded by hall of famers

**KVB** · 12-02-15, 01:15 PM

This year he seems like he's bitter. It's like the Klitscho vs. Fury fight the other night. Sure Fury is a competent boxer but it's like Klitscho new he had to fall, was bitter, and literally didn't box the whole fight.

Kobe is just like "fuk it, I'm gonna throw airballs and bricks if that's how it's gotta be."

**MoMoneyMoVaughn** · 12-02-15, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Seto

"Let's face it" as if this was some kind of universal truth?

Nobody will remember the terrible year he is currently having in 5 years except his haters. And his haters disliked him from the jump so it's not like they needed the extra ammunition of a bad year at age 37 to hate him.

People remember athletes for what they do in their prime, not what they do when they're 37.

No.

Fuk him.

He is a joke.

**frugalgambler** · 12-02-15, 01:44 PM

Kobe is a unique player, completely in his own stratosphere of douchiness. The worst teammate ever, a player who managed to alienate every single player he played with or against. MJ is a selfish bastard but he had and has friends and associates in the league. Now that Kobe is retiring you see players coming up to him after the games. Watch the ending of games last year: nobody would be coming up to Kobe, he is like a leper. It was hilarious, f.cking Wesley Johnson was getting more respect.

**dmitean** · 12-02-15, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by frugalgambler

Kobe is a unique player, completely in his own stratosphere of douchiness. The worst teammate ever, a player who managed to alienate every single player he played with or against. MJ is a selfish bastard but he had and has friends and associates in the league. Now that Kobe is retiring you see players coming up to him after the games. Watch the ending of games last year: nobody would be coming up to Kobe, he is like a leper. It was hilarious, f.cking Wesley Johnson was getting more respect.

Yeah, Wade, Durant, LeBron, Carmelo, Gasol - all of them aren't his friends..........
What are you talking about?! The fact that some D-Leaguer probably was too embarrassed to come to Kobe, means that nobody coming up to Kobe????

**frugalgambler** · 12-02-15, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by dmitean

Yeah, Wade, Durant, LeBron, Carmelo, Gasol - all of them aren't his friends..........
What are you talking about?! The fact that some D-Leaguer probably was too embarrassed to come to Kobe, means that nobody coming up to Kobe????

WTF are YOU talking about ? Friends, who, why ? F.cking Gasol ? I am surprised you did not mention Shaq.

**frugalgambler** · 12-02-15, 02:04 PM

The level is douchiness in this thread is almost as high as Kobe's.

**teaserpleaser** · 12-02-15, 02:06 PM

No doubt about it Kobe is a selfish asshole he lost a lot of respect when he got caught cheating and snitched on shaq for no good reason,nobody wants to play with him ....I mean he can't shoot anymore and shot 17 3 pointers last night

... Talent wise still one of the greatest going to miss him.

**eidolon** · 12-02-15, 05:52 PM

Another stat to look at about Kobe: He shot 41% on average in the NBA finals...I would expect a lot more from a guy that is suppose to be one of the greatest.

**DiggityDaggityDo** · 12-02-15, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Ratpack

he was a great shooter but he was never a great passer like jordan was and not a great rebounding guard like jordan or kidd (i know kobe is better than kidd) he was a good defensive player he was one of the greatest scorers i dont know one of the greatest all around players.

**Chi_archie** · 12-02-15, 10:52 PM

1 MVP? meh

hell Moses Malone had 3 Mvp's

no one slurped him like so many kobe fans

**Seto** · 12-02-15, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by eidolon

Kobe lost the 2004 Finals for the Lakers by shooting 38% during the finals. That was the year they had a superteam; did that hurt his legacy for you?

Also the first two championships that Kobe won: he shot 36% and 41% in the finals

A bad loss stands out more when you've won 2 rings than when you've won 5.

As for the second part, you're another guy who values shooting percentages over winning games. Can't make this shit up.