Kobe is reaching his end in the NBA, is he top 10? top 25?

[redbull]

kobe?
number 24

retire

[Seto]

Lebron plays will college players most of his career

Kobe had superstars

Lol former Finals MVP is a "college player" according to this guy. Can't make this shit up.

[eidolon]

A bad loss stands out more when you've won 2 rings than when you've won 5.

As for the second part, you're another guy who values shooting percentages over winning games. Can't make this shit up.

Umm, you can't win games without making baskets. Shooting % says a lot, and Kobe's career average in the NBA finals was 41%. You can't make that shit up. Does % say everything? no. But damn it says a lot; go look at all the great other than Kobe, none of them have a % like his. Kobe was over hyped being on LA and with Shaq (in his prime). Was Kobe great, sure; but nothing close to what media has fed you and others.

[Vegas39]

Umm, you can't win games without making baskets. Shooting % says a lot, and Kobe's career average in the NBA finals was 41%. You can't make that shit up. Does % say everything? no. But damn it says a lot; go look at all the great other than Kobe, none of them have a % like his. Kobe was over hyped being on LA and with Shaq (in his prime). Was Kobe great, sure; but nothing close to what media has fed you and others.

3rd on all time scoring list yet over hyped

[Ballin24]

Umm, you can't win games without making baskets. Shooting % says a lot, and Kobe's career average in the NBA finals was 41%. You can't make that shit up. Does % say everything? no. But damn it says a lot; go look at all the great other than Kobe, none of them have a % like his. Kobe was over hyped being on LA and with Shaq (in his prime). Was Kobe great, sure; but nothing close to what media has fed you and others.

Let's be honest you don't care what anyone has to say about Kobe really, you just made this thread to hate on him.

[Jeffie]

Let's be honest you don't care what anyone has to say about Kobe really, you just made this thread to hate on him.

Kobe haters are clueless.. All they can say is "Ballhog" "rapist" but it's okay 5 rings some scoring titles an MVP which he should have 3+ And a shit ton of all star games. What a Fukin Career!! Gonna be weird not seeing him on court next year.

[smallball]

When you look at the body of work, there is no question that Kobe is top 5 of all time....anyone arguing differently is just not being objective...I have always hated the Lakers as a warriors fan, but for the majority of his career, there was no one better than him.

People talking about Lebron taking crappy teams to playoffs...let's not forget the Laker team with smush parker, kwame brown, radmanovic, farmer, cook etc. For God's sake LUKE WALTON was the team's third best player behind Kobe and ODOM...and the team won 40+ games and gave the Suns a tough first round.

[eidolon]

Let's be honest you don't care what anyone has to say about Kobe really, you just made this thread to hate on him.

I do want to hear what people have to say; I want them to convince me why he should be considered top 10 ever.

[eidolon]

3rd on all time scoring list yet over hyped

So is Karl Malone better than Kobe?
No one ever puts Karl Malone in the top 10, and Kobe won't score more points than him.

Do people ever talk about Elvin Hayes or Dan Issel?

[frugalgambler]

Kobe haters are clueless.. All they can say is "Ballhog" "rapist" but it's okay 5 rings some scoring titles an MVP which he should have 3+ And a shit ton of all star games. What a Fukin Career!! Gonna be weird not seeing him on court next year.

F.cking Kobe c.ck-gobblers. Just go wank to his poster already.

[jsmithj88]

When you look at the body of work, there is no question that Kobe is top 5 of all time....anyone arguing differently is just not being objective...I have always hated the Lakers as a warriors fan, but for the majority of his career, there was no one better than him.

People talking about Lebron taking crappy teams to playoffs...let's not forget the Laker team with smush parker, kwame brown, radmanovic, farmer, cook etc. For God's sake LUKE WALTON was the team's third best player behind Kobe and ODOM...and the team won 40+ games and gave the Suns a tough first round.

no question????
kobe is not even the best player of his generation
tim duncun has more accomplishments AND higher rated player through analytics
even then, im not even sure TD is in the top 5

[Chi_archie]

all of these guys have more Mvp's than Kobe

Kobe has for a very very very long time been consistently a top 5 player year after year in the NBA

but doing that for a long time doesn't make you a to 5 or 10 player all time.

he was rarely head and shoulders above the rest of his peers

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar	NBA	6
Michael Jordan	NBA	5
Bill Russell	NBA	5
Wilt Chamberlain	NBA	4
LeBron James	NBA	4
Larry Bird	NBA	3
Julius Erving	ABA	3
Magic Johnson	NBA	3
Moses Malone	NBA	3
Mel Daniels	ABA	2
Tim Duncan	NBA	2
Karl Malone	NBA	2
Steve Nash	NBA	2
Bob Pettit	NBA	2

[franklee168]

Looks like it's true....Everyone wants to be like Mike.

[Goat Milk]

LOL this little child just said Steph Curry is better than Kobe Bryant

Children....

Bryant is the 2nd best of all time

Magic Jerry West and Shaq all said he's the greatest Lakers player of all time.

Did you not watch Bryant for 10 years straight from 2001-2011????

Took a team with Kwame Brown Chris Mihm Smush Parker and Luke Walton as starters to the PLAYOFFS. What a joke of a team. Got triple teamed every night.

You think what Steph Curry is doing now is otherworldly?

Buddy --

bryant dropped 50 points in 4 STRAIGHT game...

Bryant dropped 62 points on the eventual World Champions (Mavs) AFTER 3 QUARTERS....

81 in a game that same season.... getting doubled and tripled on every play because Smush Parker and Luke Walton were not threats like Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes....

Get a clue

oh yeah -- just want to add this edit for CHI _ ARCHI

BRYANT DID NOT WIN THE MVP THAT YEAR..... ALL THAT HAPPENED IN THE SAME SEASON.

50+ POINTS IN 4 STRAIGHT GAMES
62 AFTER 3 QUARTERS
81 IN A GAME
TOOK WORST STARTING 5 IN NBA HISTORY TO THE PLAYOFFS AND NEARLY UPSET THE 2 SEED IN GAME 7.

NASH WON THE AWARD AVERAGING LIKE 15 PPG

[Goat Milk]

all of these guys have more Mvp's than Kobe

Kobe has for a very very very long time been consistently a top 5 player year after year in the NBA

but doing that for a long time doesn't make you a to 5 or 10 player all time.

he was rarely head and shoulders above the rest of his peers

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar	NBA	6
Michael Jordan	NBA	5
Bill Russell	NBA	5
Wilt Chamberlain	NBA	4
LeBron James	NBA	4
Larry Bird	NBA	3
Julius Erving	ABA	3
Magic Johnson	NBA	3
Moses Malone	NBA	3
Mel Daniels	ABA	2
Tim Duncan	NBA	2
Karl Malone	NBA	2
Steve Nash	NBA	2
Bob Pettit	NBA	2

Yeah because Steve Nash deserved to win 2 Mvps when Bryant averaged 35.4 ppg, something that hasn't been done since....

You have no clue what you're saying. Bryant was robbed of 2 MVPs because of the huge rape case.

Bryant has the most all nba 1st teams in nba history.....

Bryant has the most all nba 1st team defense in nba history....

Have guys like Nash or steph curry even been on the nba 1st team defense ONCE???

EVEN ONCE?

NO

[Goat Milk]

Lets say this

Kobe not even Lebron leagues

Lebron wins with college players for the most part ..Kobe always had dominant other players

Kobe top 10

LUKE WALTON

KWAME BROWN

SMUSH PARKER

CHRIS MIHM

THEN LETS GO TO THE SQUAD HE TOOK TO 3 STRAIGHT NBA FINALS

GASOL
ODOM
DERRICK FISHER
RON ARTEST
ANDREW BYNUM
ARIZA

I can't even remember the rest of the scrubs. Not one all star on those championship teams except Pau Gasol. Everyone else an average NBA player.

Lebron played with a top 25 player in NBA history (D Wade....6th in nba history in PER. one of like 5 players in NBA history to average close to 24 5 and 5 for his career. most blocks all time by a sg in nba history and has played way less games than guys like jordan and bryant).

Silence.

Kobe had Shaq and those guys for a few years in his prime. Then they were gone in 2004.

Look at Lebrons team now. Irving and Love two of the top 15 players in the NBA.

[Goat Milk]

MJ
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Lebon
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Duncan
Big O

Around 11.

LMFAO

Dumbest post of your career

[Goat Milk]

The real question is how much credit do you really give Kobe for the championships he won with Shaq? Shaq was the most dominant force in the game and Kobe was a great sidekick. Then Kobe won 2 without him, one vs the Orlando freakin Magic. Is that GOAT-level?

Who was the closer for those 3 championships?

Bryant. Every big shot, they gave it to Bryant.

Shaq was great no doubt, Bryant was very very young.... Do not forget that.

After the Lakers won the championship in 2003, Shaq said "Bryant is the best player in the world."

Shaq, the most arrogant guy of all time, would not say that if he didn't believe it.

After that, Bryant ascended to a new level the NBA had never seen since Jordan.

Bryant was, year after year, in the coaches and players poll, ranked the best player in the NBA. Ranked the toughest competitor to play against.

Just recently Dirk said something like "I have played against some great players. Lebron, Wade, Duncan. Bryant is the best player I've ever faced."

Back in the day when players in the league voted "What player would you want to take the last shot in a game if he were on your team." Over 50% of the league said Bryant. The rest said a combo of Wade, Lebron, Durant, and Carmello. THis is when these guys were all in their primes too......

If you don't have Bryant in your top 5 of all time, you must not have watched Bryant for 10 straight year in his prime where he absolutely dominated the NBA on BOTH OFFENSE AND DEFENSE.

HE WAS THE BEST DEFENDER IN THE NBA AND THE BEST SCORER IN THE LEAGUE. FOR 10 STRAIGHT YEARS. PERIOD.

Ask Greg Pop about Kobe Bryant.....lol.....

[Jeffie]

Who was the closer for those 3 championships?

Bryant. Every big shot, they gave it to Bryant.

Shaq was great no doubt, Bryant was very very young.... Do not forget that.

After the Lakers won the championship in 2003, Shaq said "Bryant is the best player in the world."

Shaq, the most arrogant guy of all time, would not say that if he didn't believe it.

After that, Bryant ascended to a new level the NBA had never seen since Jordan.

Bryant was, year after year, in the coaches and players poll, ranked the best player in the NBA. Ranked the toughest competitor to play against.

Just recently Dirk said something like "I have played against some great players. Lebron, Wade, Duncan. Bryant is the best player I've ever faced."

Back in the day when players in the league voted "What player would you want to take the last shot in a game if he were on your team." Over 50% of the league said Bryant. The rest said a combo of Wade, Lebron, Durant, and Carmello. THis is when these guys were all in their primes too......

If you don't have Bryant in your top 5 of all time, you must not have watched Bryant for 10 straight year in his prime where he absolutely dominated the NBA on BOTH OFFENSE AND DEFENSE.

HE WAS THE BEST DEFENDER IN THE NBA AND THE BEST SCORER IN THE LEAGUE. FOR 10 STRAIGHT YEARS. PERIOD.

Ask Greg Pop about Kobe Bryant.....lol.....

Its literally as if people just started watching basketball. Did they not watch Kobe play in his prime?
Whats funny is when Kobe was winning all those championships people were saying Kobe was close to MJ
Now all of the sudden hes not even top 10 in peoples eyes LMAO...

[Ratzz]

many lists have Kobe at around 11

[KVB]

GoatMilk setting things straight up in here.

[Goat Milk]

To even compare a guy like Tim Duncan to Bryant is simply a travesty. Duncan is an amazing player, the best PF in my book of all time

Tim Duncan could never single handedly take over a game at any moment.

Never. It's not all about stats. Guys like Duncan are gonna put up great stats because they're great fundamental utility players. They're winners. They can't take over a game by themselves. They need playmakers around them.

Not Bryant.

Bryant was the most feared player on the court always for 12 years straight.

The guy would post you up, cross you over, drill a jumper in your eye, knock down 3s from 30 feet, blow past you, dunk over you.

Oh yeah, not to mention, you could not dribble past him in his prime unless you were elite.

So many players have challenged him and have been embarrassed. Remember that loser from the Blazers who claimed he was the Kobe Stopper? Bryant destroyed the Blazers in the playoffs after that comment.

Remember Ron Artest in Houston? 1st team all defense, defensive player of the year couple years back.... Didn't Bryant average like 35 against him in that playoff series? Lol.

What about those great moments against the Suns and Spurs in the playoffs? Or against Westbrook and Durant even in the latter portion of Bryant's prime?

[Goat Milk]

I mean the best player Kobe ever had outside of Shaq was probably Pau Gasol. You guys realize how much of a travesty that is?

Look at who Duncan is surrounded with man. Year after year after year. And now he has Kawai Leonard who isn't a star, the guy is a superstar. He is unbelievable man. He will have a much better overall career than Pau Gasol -- I guarantee that....

When David Stern vetoed the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers and Dantoni ran Kobe into the ground playing him 40 minutes a night on a horrid Lakers team with no help, that ruined Bryant's last 2-3 years.

When it's all said and done, if Bryant played for the Spurs organization without Tim Duncan, he'd have about 8 rings right now.

And even if he did play with Duncan, who do you think would be the number 1 option in their primes, Duncan or Bryant?

Is that even a question?

That's all you need to ask when assessing who is better all-time out of these two all time greats.

[lakerboy]

The only thing kobe could have been better at was being humble.

As a lifelong lakers fan kobe will go down as only behind magic for me.

[hotelis]

if kobe/lakers happen to have a solid season this year, kobe will cancel retirement plans. I think he overreacted to his horrid shooting.

[blankoblanco]

Goat Milk, I respect your opinion and what you're saying. Really it's quibbling at this point, because we're comparing all the greatest NBA players of all time. I would rank Kobe close to #15 off the top of my head, but I don't blame anyone who wants to put him top 10, just feels like a bit of a stretch to me. I have nothing against Kobe, I think in his prime he was amazing, and I'm glad I got to watch him. It's just fun to compare all the greatest players and try to imagine how they'd do in the same era. I also have to admit that I think the last couple years have hurt his legacy a bit, even though it's hard to blame him for it.

[Goat Milk]

Goat Milk, I respect your opinion and what you're saying. Really it's quibbling at this point, because we're comparing all the greatest NBA players of all time. I would rank Kobe close to #15 off the top of my head, but I don't blame anyone who wants to put him top 10, just feels like a bit of a stretch to me. I have nothing against Kobe, I think in his prime he was amazing, and I'm glad I got to watch him. It's just fun to compare all the greatest players and try to imagine how they'd do in the same era. I also have to admit that I think the last couple years have hurt his legacy a bit, even though it's hard to blame him for it.

Anything outside the top 5 is pretty much an insult. If you tell Magic Johnson that Kobe might be in your top 15, he would turn around and walk away. Guaranteed. What he did in his prime for 12 years straight....only 1 person in history did that. And that was Jordan. No one else could do what Bryant did. These guys putting Duncan ahead of Kobe is simply laughable (even though I believe Duncan will surpass him in rings).

In 2012, both Jerry West and Magic Johnson called Kobe Bryant the "greatest laker ever" fyi. And I don't automatically put guys like Wilt or Bill Russel ahead of them. I watched Wilt and Russel play many games. The Big O was way better than both of them, just had shitty teams. Watch Bill Russel play. The guy had zero offensive moves. ZERO. And people think he's better than the big O because he played on one of only 2 relevant NBA teams for a decade straight. Despicable. Guy played next to like 4 hall of famers too. This is not even counting the fact that there was a limit on how many blacks were allowed in the league and how the pace was so fast and sloppy it led to inflated stats. 11 rings or w/e he has means nothing. There was only 2 teams that could win it every year lol.

[eidolon]

LUKE WALTON

KWAME BROWN

SMUSH PARKER

CHRIS MIHM

THEN LETS GO TO THE SQUAD HE TOOK TO 3 STRAIGHT NBA FINALS

GASOL
ODOM
DERRICK FISHER
RON ARTEST
ANDREW BYNUM
ARIZA

I can't even remember the rest of the scrubs. Not one all star on those championship teams except Pau Gasol. Everyone else an average NBA player.

Lebron played with a top 25 player in NBA history (D Wade....6th in nba history in PER. one of like 5 players in NBA history to average close to 24 5 and 5 for his career. most blocks all time by a sg in nba history and has played way less games than guys like jordan and bryant).

Silence.

Kobe had Shaq and those guys for a few years in his prime. Then they were gone in 2004.

Look at Lebrons team now. Irving and Love two of the top 15 players in the NBA.

You are fukking clueless if you think these guys are scrubbs

[Seto]

Umm, you can't win games without making baskets. Shooting % says a lot, and Kobe's career average in the NBA finals was 41%. You can't make that shit up. Does % say everything? no. But damn it says a lot; go look at all the great other than Kobe, none of them have a % like his. Kobe was over hyped being on LA and with Shaq (in his prime). Was Kobe great, sure; but nothing close to what media has fed you and others.

The media? My perception on Kobe is 100% from watching him play. I don't live in the USA so I have no idea what the media is saying, sorry. In fact the only ESPN articles I've ever read about Kobe have been articles hating on him.

Once again, as I said, people who judge players based on player effiency ratings and shooting percentages rather than what titles they've won and which opponents they've come accross in the playoffs are entitled to their opinion but it's fukking dumb to me. I'm tired of these debates though so I won't get into it further.

Is Kyle Korver one of the best players ever? Guy was damn close to a 50/50/90 season last year. Lol.

[Seto]

all of these guys have more Mvp's than Kobe

Kobe has for a very very very long time been consistently a top 5 player year after year in the NBA

but doing that for a long time doesn't make you a to 5 or 10 player all time.

he was rarely head and shoulders above the rest of his peers

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar	NBA	6
Michael Jordan	NBA	5
Bill Russell	NBA	5
Wilt Chamberlain	NBA	4
LeBron James	NBA	4
Larry Bird	NBA	3
Julius Erving	ABA	3
Magic Johnson	NBA	3
Moses Malone	NBA	3
Mel Daniels	ABA	2
Tim Duncan	NBA	2
Karl Malone	NBA	2
Steve Nash	NBA	2
Bob Pettit	NBA	2

Would he not have won MVP's, in particular over Steve Nash, but for the rape thing?

[Seto]

You are fukking clueless if you think these guys are scrubbs

He called Gasol an all-star. Please learn to read.

[dmitean]

MVP is meaningless. Just like Coach of the year. I mean... Sloan never won one. Carlisle won only one. Phil Jackson won it only once. Mike Brown was the coach of the year. Sam Mitchell. Scott Brooks. Worst coach to ever coach NBA game, Byron Scott, won Coach of the Year award. Red, who won 17 titles (!), won the award only once. Cloan + Phil + Carlisle + Red combined, have less coaches of the year awards than Mike Brown + Scott + Brooks + Mitchell...

I realize that MVP and COY are not the same, but both not really taking the best one there is, but they have their own reasons to name this or that coach/ player. MVP doesn't mean you are the best player in the league and COY doesn't mean that you are the best coach. It only means that the league decided to award you for their own reasons...

[Seto]

if kobe/lakers happen to have a solid season this year, kobe will cancel retirement plans. I think he overreacted to his horrid shooting.

What would a solid season be? 30 wins? Cause that would literally be an achievement for this squad.

[Seto]

many lists have Kobe at around 11

you have him at 11? the 11th worst player of all time though right?

what's happened to you man

[hooo]

Kobe is 2nd to MJ, if you don't count Wilt, Russel, maybe Magic ... but other than those it's MJ and Kobe 2nd ... LBJ, Curry don't have shit on Kobe lol ... curry needs 15 years of playing like he does now to even deserve a comparison and LBJ is just a freak of nature, kobe was much more talented in basketball.