why do we need a fence? to keep the day workers going back to mexico? 
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There are plenty of illegals that actually do pay taxes. This goes way beyond Mexicans crossing the border. How many illegals from Cuba find their way into Florida every year? How about illegals from non-spanish speaking countries?Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe
IMHO, the border fence would be a complete and total waste of $$$$. The major problem with ths country is the shear stupidity of the masses.
I watched a segment on 20/20 years ago about a Mexican couple who supported an entire family and sent all 3 of their kids to college by collecting cans. They wake up every morning at 4:30AM and collect cans for 12-14 hours per day. How many people who can't make ends meat, who are citizens of this country, would do this?
This country is a total and complete mess. Listen to the politicians and the major problem is illegal immigration? Just a small piece to the puzzle my friend.Comment -
A wall patterned after Hadrian's wall with barracks for troops built into the "wall", and the "wall" supported with modern intruder detection devices like motion detectors, infrared, sound detectors, ground motion radar, and 250,000 troops could be 100% effective.Originally posted by Robust
Actually there are lots of examples of walls built to keep intruders out that were very effective, which is why people built them.
I just don't get this obsession with the "wildlife". What about the human life in the USA that is being devastated? When people come to the US illegally they then become criminals because of their national origin. They then have to live underground. I knew a lot of people when I lived in NYC that had to live like this. It is despicable.
This willingness to sacrifice human beings for "wildlife" never ceases to amaze and disgust me.Comment -
The leftists push that nonsense about needing a Great Wall on the border with Canada to keep out "terrorists" as part of their propaganda that the call for a Great Wall on the Mexican border is somehow bigoted and racist. No one seriously believes that nonsense except the Kool Aid drinkers, er I mean Obama Nation denizens.Originally posted by sicklerThat's one way of putting it.
Another would be that since the quality of life in Canada is as good as if not better than it is in the US, there isn't a rush for the border in search of a better life.
What the US really has to worry about on the Canadian side are the terrorists trying to slip across (according to misinformation from fear mongers)
Lets not forget BC bud. Large quantities to keep our southern neighbours happy.
The Great Wall is not needed to keep out terrorists, but to keep out millions of uneducated immigrants who have no desire to integrate into our society and have no desire to learn our language. Terrorism has nothing to do with it.
Terrorists don't need to sneak across the border, they just get a **** and fly here.Comment -
We need a fukking fence round this whole island, plus a shoot to kill policy at the ports to stop all the fukking scum from africa, middle east and eastern europe wandering in like they at walmart.
Oh what am I saying, they already here, claiming aslyum, freeloading and planning atrocities. The Uk is fukked with its Nazi government. Political correctness is king, free speech is banned.Comment -
Just want to make sure that everyone understands this isn't one solid long-ass fence all the way across the whole border, Y'all do know that, right? There are going to be areas that the topography of the land are expected to serve as the fence, won't be any need to cut through wire.
Also, just curious: How many people that have posted in this thread have ever lived within 10 miles of where this fence is going? 50 miles?Comment -
"If you build it , they will come."Comment -
That is why I said the fence is useless and what is needed is a Hadrian's Wall or a Great Wall of China. Along with 250,000 well equipped border guards.Originally posted by Willie Bee
The fence isn't supposed to work, the DemoCong only agreed to it because they knew they would sabotage the effort so they can say "See, we tried, it was a bad idea".
Let's see, veto of any attempt to institute voter ID to thwart voter fraud and refusing to get serious about closing a border that permits hundreds of thousands of illegals to cross every year.
Could the two things be connected?
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Excuse my stupidity but if a wall is built how are the illegals going to go back to Mexico now that the US economy is colder than dog shit.Comment -
Since I said a wall like Hadrian's wall, and Hadrian's wall had gates in it every mile or two, I guess you would open the gate. Call me crazy.Originally posted by pavyracer
But my preferred way of getting them over the wall would be to use a catapult. Or a giant spring. Anything that can launch them over the wall.Comment -
True, but I think this country was also built by the Europeans that immigrated here legally. You can also include the Chinese that help with the railroad in the 1800's, that also immigrated here legally.Originally posted by Shark79
If they want to come to this country, just do it legally. And no I don't think fences will do a damn thing, there's always going to be ways around it.Comment -
The difference is very simple. When our ancestors came here they were not labeled as "illegal" and turned into criminals who were forced to live underground. People complain because the illegal immigrants don't integrate into American society. Well, they don't do so because they CANNOT.Originally posted by frostno98
The ridiculous policy of declaring people as "illegal" because of their national origin has to stop. If there is no willingness to eliminate that policy then the border has to be closed. It is unfair to people to make it possible for them to come here then treat them like they are not human.
Since it is obvious that the politicians are not going to do the right thing and give the "illegals" that are already here some sort of status that guarantees them human rights, then I say the border must be closed so that more people don't end up in that same condition.Comment -
Curious, you should be deported to Zimbabwe.
Love, DuritoComment -
Why because I don't want people to be labeled "illegal" because of their national origin? I want them to have human rights. You have a problem with that?Originally posted by duritoComment -
Im for the fence, but also realize that if there arent enough border agents stationed along it, its just a waste of money. I have personal experience with fences and keeping people out and animals in, its a very hard thing to do. I just cant shoot everyone who tresspasses on my property, I just dont have the time or energy to bury them all.
laterComment -
I figured out how many troops it takes to seal a border using East Germany, Hungary, North Korea, North Vietnam, etc as guides.Originally posted by capitalist pig
To secure the US Mexico border with enough troops that you could guarantee no one would cross the border illegally would take somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 well trained, well equipped, motivated troops. They would have to be allowed to use strong arm tactics. There would have to be a "No go zone" of a mile wide along the border with razor wire, guard towers, guard dogs, land mines, detection devices, etc to guarantee that the border was closed. Can you see the pussies in our government doing something like that?Comment -
No, our current govt is more likely to at this point to give them all a stimulus check.Originally posted by curious
laterComment -
Pardon me for being ignorant about US-Mexico affairs, but has the US tried working diligently with Mexico to improve their economy and way of life? Give them a reason to stay there. Or is Mexico totally fukked, impervious to change?Comment -
You have a point. Spain used to be the Mexico of Europe in terms of large numbers of Spanish poor emigrating to the rest of Europe. Then the European Union invested in Spain and jobs were created, now Spain is the largest IMPORTERS of workers in Europe.Originally posted by sickler
So, aiding a poor country so they can develop economically is a good idea.
The US has given Mexico tens if not hundreds of billions of $$, and has given Mexico very advantageous trade agreements. But this has not helped.
Mexico has three problems. First, corruption is unbelievably rampant. And corruption is so deeply entrenched it is an insurmountable problem. Second, the legal system is so screwed up it is very difficult to get and keep legal title to anything. In the US if I own property and you come and start building a cabin on it I can have you evicted. Not so in Mexico. Also, you cannot just come along and "take" my property. If you try it I can call the police and/or take you to court. Again, not so in Mexico. You can own a building and a federale or a prominent person can decide that they want your building and they just take it. Third, Mexico was established by a ruling class which put the poor into a virtual slavery. "Class" is very important in Mexico even today. There is a huge class divide. There are three classes. Whites (descendants of the Spanish conquistadors or the French), mestizo (part white and part Indian) and Indian. The whites are the ruling class, the mestizo are kind of a managerial or middle class, the Indians are more or less serfs. The ruling class does nothing to help the poor. They do everything to keep them in their place. In rural villages the descendants of the original ruling class are virtual kings. The poor cannot go to school, they cannot strive to achieve anything above their current station in life, they cannot own property, they cannot take up a trade above where they are now. To go against the "Lords" is to put your life in your hands.
A large % of the Mexican population are descendants of Indians - Aztec, Inca, Maya, Yaqui, Apache and other tribes. Indians and mestizo do not consider themselves brothers or neighbors. The whites are above them both.
The many billions of dollars that the US gave to Mexico was stolen and/or totally mismanaged.
I have no idea what it would take to fix Mexico's economic problems. No one else does either.
Now Mexico has a new problem, the drug cartels. Given the corruption, lack of training and motivation, and lack of equipment, even the army is not a match for the cartels.
It is a terrible mess.Comment -
I knew about some of that, curious.
Looks like they're on their own. Fukked.Comment -
I LOVE the ocean and I wanted to buy a house on the ocean and I had a little money after getting paid on a contract. Not much in US ocean front house price terms so I looked in Mexico. I found a really cute house a few steps from the ocean in a little seaside village in southern Mexico on the Pacific ocean side. The house was $25,000 US. I REALLY wanted to buy the house. I went down there, checked it out and I met some people down there. They all told me the same thing. DON"T DO IT. They said the only property that it was safe for a "gringo" to buy was in one of the expensive resort enclaves. I checked around with some people from Mexico I know back in the US and they told me the same thing.Originally posted by sicklerComment -
Curious, I knew about the corruption over there, but didn't know land theft was prevalent.
So you buy a house and find out later it was taken by someone who "wanted it", leaving you no legal recourse. Sounds like a good deal.
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Yes, I have a lot of Mexican friends on both sides of the border. The problem is the "legal" system. It is very difficult to defend a land title. The laws are labyrinthian, the courts are crooked. The federales can just come and take it from you at gunpoint, what you gonna do then?Originally posted by sicklerCurious, I knew about the corruption over there, but didn't know land theft was prevalent.
So you buy a house and find out later it was taken by someone who "wanted it", leaving you no legal recourse. Sounds like a good deal.Comment -
Lol, our resident chicano is worried about plant life. Nice.Comment -
What to do with Mexico?
Invade, conquer, install puppet ruler.
Nah, hasn't turned out as planned in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Afghanistan is producing & exporting more heroin than ever. So much for influencing problematic countries.Comment -
Afghanistan and Iraq are easy. GET THE FREAK OUT OF THERE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.Originally posted by sickler
Mexico is a bit harder. We have to give economic aid directly to the disenfranchised classes and give them the means to defend themselves against the corrupt government forces and the drug cartels. We have to cut off all aid to the corrupt Mexican government and help the people directly. Good luck getting the leftists in power in Amerika to do anything that makes that much sense.
The drug problem is easy. Legalize all drugs and tax and regulate them like they do in Holland, Denmark, Sweden etc. That will get the criminal gangs out of the drug business and divert a large part of their revenue to the US Treasury. Anytime you want less of something get the bureaucrats involved. End the war on drugs and shift funds to medical treatment, prevention, needle exchange programs, etc. Make the addictive drugs free or very cheap to addicts so they don't have to commit crimes to support their addiction. Give addicts free treatment. Immediately pardon all simple drug possession convictions.
The drug cartels will lose their power because they won't have any profit motive to stay in the drug business. The criminal element will get out of the drug business.
This would save the government hundreds of billions of dollars and add tens of hundreds of billions of dollars in new tax revenue.Comment -
I often wonder how the legal drug situation is demark and sweden, and what impact it has on society as a whole.
But recent changes in holland leaves me to believe it does not work.Comment -
As opposed to the resounding success of the war on drugs? More people are in prison in the US on simple drug possession charges (the majority of them urban black young people) than were in the gulag archipelago at the height of the Stalin era. The war on drugs has destroyed millions of families. And for what? So some self righteous hypocrites can feel morally justified?Originally posted by wtfComment -
How does a book compare to a prison?
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I never know what the hell you are talking about. The title of the book was the same as the name given to the forced labor camp system by the author. I'm referring to the prison system, not the book. Of course you knew that.Originally posted by pavyracerHow does a book compare to a prison?Comment -
Curious, you have some good ideas.
Don't know about legalizing hard drugs, but soft ones for sure.
And decriminalizing simple drug possession would save a bundle. Know how much it costs to house an inmate?Comment -
Depends on the prison but a rough average is $200K. But that isn't the real economic cost to society at large. A felony conviction destroys a family's earning potential. If there are 2 parents in the house and one of them is incarcerated the other one then struggles financially and has to go on some form of public assistance. The kids now are being raised by one parent. If there is 1 parent the kids go into foster care while the parent is incarcerated. People come out of prison with no money, no place to live and no way to make a living. So, they become a burden on the community they live in.Originally posted by sickler
To have a war you have to have an enemy so the "authorities" have turned our young people into the "enemy". The "police" do not do policing any more. They are soldiers in the war on drugs. So young people in urban areas grow up viewing the police as the enemy and they view criminal activity as a normal way of life. This nonsense destroys families, communities, neighborhoods.
The drug war machine costs hundreds of billions to keep going. There are millions of victims. Where is the "peace at all costs" crowd? Why aren't they marching against the war on drugs? Where is Code Pink. They won't march against the war on drugs because they are hypocrites.Comment
